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LethalStriker

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On 11/21/2017 at 10:51 PM, El Dragon said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/if-you-vote-for-vlad-you-have-to-vote-for-walker/

 

I don't really need to add anything this doesn't say better then I can.

I finally read the piece and he doesn't really say it very well. Anytime you start the argument with if so and so is in than so and so should also be in is the kind of thinking that put Rizzuto in the HOF. Cherry picking specific years and peak periods is a weakass argument also. The Larry Walker case is this: He was a very, very good five tool player and an awesome hitter at Coors, elsewhere, he was no joke, but hardly a HOFr.  He was also hurt a lot and his career numbers suffer for it. He would be far from the worst guy in the HOF but he's remarkably like Chuck Klein, the closer you look, the less impressive things seem. Vlad and Larry are not really similar players at all, Walker was a standard, disciplined and very good hitter, Vlad was otherworldly at the plate No one scared pitchers more unless it were Barry Bonds. When you closest comparison from contemporaries is the greatest player of all time, you probably belong in the HOF.

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I am assuming that people are thoughtfully preparing their nominations, it's actually not all that easy, I can think of a couple of dozen howlingly bad selections off the top of my head. Then we have a whole tier of guys that upon close examination really have no business being in the HOF. I think RIPPA brought up Aparicio, Tabe did a spot-on analysis of Carl Yastremski, and my own contribution was one of (if not the earliest) 30/30 guys, Chuck Klein; a guy whose numbers look pretty good until you realize that most of his career was spent playing in a stadium slightly larger than a child's sandbox. 

A very good player most definitely, but his numbers are way out of proportion due to his home park, not unlike a modern counterpart whose initials are "LW".

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On 12/5/2017 at 8:11 AM, RIPPA said:

If I brought up Aparicio it was too complain about how I can never spell Aaparicio

Otherwise - I have no idea what you are talking about

This doesn't sound familiar?

Luis Aparicio

- I am assuming OSJ would have named him if he hadn't limited himself to 10 guys. SPEED~! GLOVE~!

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I am not his biggest fan but Marvin Miller not getting is an absolute fucking travesty, and it's made a million times more ridiculous when you see fucking Bud Selig getting in. He is THE reason just about every player in the league is a millionaire. If you made a list of the 10 most important people in the history of the sport he has to be on that list.

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Reporters close to the voting committee believe it's a combo of the owner types flat out refusing to vote for him and the players not fighting hard enough

If you believe at least the front office part...

Quote

Each year's Committee is different and is selected by the Hall Board of Directors. This year's panel includes six Hall of Fame players: George Brett, Rod Carew, Dennis Eckersley, Don Sutton, Dave Winfield and Robin Yount in addition to Hall of Fame manager Bobby Cox and Hall of Fame executive John Schuerholz, both of the Braves.

Mets general manager Sandy Alderson, former Blue Jays president Paul Beeston, Reds president Bob Castellini, Cardinals chairman Bill DeWitt, Royals chairman David Glass, veteran BBWAA members Bob Elliott and Jayson Stark and historian Steve Hirdt of the Elias Sport Bureau make up the remainder of the group.

That is 6 no votes against him right there

It assuredly isn't that black and white - but with a committee with that much old front office/owner types... it is gonna continue to be an uphill battle

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Any player on social media who doesn't decry Miller not getting in is a complete and total ingrate. He's the reason they are all millionaires. Seriously I have no respect for any player who isn't outraged about this.

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7 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

I really glad Trammell got in. But the continuing absence of Sweet Lou is even harder to take now.

3-time Gold Glove winner, OPS+ of 117, ROY in 1978, 3rd all-time in homers at 2B when he retired.  He's got a better case than Tram and Tram was an easy pick for the Hall.

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2 minutes ago, Tabe said:

3-time Gold Glove winner, OPS+ of 117, ROY in 1978, 3rd all-time in homers at 2B when he retired.  He's got a better case than Tram and Tram was an easy pick for the Hall.

I can't believe he was one and done on the ballot AND didn't make the final ten for the panel this year. 

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Plus Lou gave us this awesomely hilarious All-Star Game moment:

 

lou-whitaker.jpg

 

For those who don't know the story, Lou forgot his jersey for the game.  Back in those days, players wore their own team's uniform during the game.  Anyway, a clubhouse attendant bought Lou a souvenir jersey and WROTE IN his number using a marker on the blank-backed jersey.  Lou also forgot his hat, glove, and other gear.  He had to borrow stuff from several players to actually play!

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Well, now that Trammell's in I won't even comment on the idiocy of one voter thinking Jack Morris was more HOF worthy than Alan Trammell. We should pause and reflect on the fact that the VC finally got it right. Now, that's enough pausing and reflecting, time to start banging the drums loudly for Sweet Lou and the Cobra.  I must say that I'm surprised that with a committee that included his team -mate Dave Winfield. that there wasn't more support for Parker. A very good chunk of his career played in a pitcher-dominated era and in cavernous pitcher's parks, and he still put up incredible offensive stats. 

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Morris is the Don Drysdale of his generation, a pitcher vastly over-hyped by the media who were desperate for a "star" to talk about. I'm not saying that Drysdale doesn't necessarily belong, but the numbers show he wasn't nearly as good as he was hyped up to be. The difference between him and Morris is that with Drysdale you really have to do some digging to get to the truth whereas with Morris it's right there in the basic stats, a 3.90 ERA! I got to watch a lot of Morris back in the day and the fact is that when he was on he was just awesome, totally intimidating.  I also saw him when he was off and the word that comes to mind is "mediocre". He was also the luckiest son of a bitch I've ever seen in my life; when you consider the ferocious line-up he had backing him up, he could give up a bunch of runs and still get the "W". After all, for most of his tenure in Detroit he had three guys that belong in the HOF (Trammell, Whitaker, & Evans) and two guys that were awfully damn good, (Gibson and Parrish) as part of that line-up. I'm having trouble thinking of another pitcher who wound up with as impressive a record that was so heavily dependent on his team's offense. 

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Which would have given Mr. Morris four bonafide HOFrs backing him up. Certainly there have been other pitchers with such a formidable line-up behind them, Warren Spahn and Johnny Sain of my beloved Braves come to mind what with Mathews, Aaron, Adcock as the 3-4-5 hitters or Whitey Ford with those awesome Yankees teams behind him, but those guys all posted impressive stats in their own right, not 3.90 ERAs. I was really digging on baseball reference.com to see if I could find anyone in the Hall that's truly comparable to Jack Morris and there just isn't anyone close. I don't have the time or patience to go through all of the pitchers who ever played to see if I can find anyone with similar stats and as impressive a line-up backing them up. I sort of suspect that I wouldn't find anyone, I think Jack might have been unique.  The thing is, he was a very good pitcher, but his team gave the illusion that he was a great one, and that he wasn't. In fact, he may well be the pitching answer to Carl Yazstremski as an outfielder; the closer you look, the worse he appears.

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