UFC Fight Night 122: Bisping vs. Gastelum (11/25/2017) - Shanghai, China (Mercedes Benz Arena)

[Jiji]

4 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Man, Song Yadong has a ton of potential. He seems like a slightly more polished Superboy.

I'm making my way through the show now and holy shit, you aren't joking. So clean, lightning quick counters and combinations, excellent footwork. Incredibly impressed. 

And yeah, super enthusiastic crowd! Love it. 

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, The Natural said:

A UFC in the UK at midday rather than the early hours of the morning. Yay. Touch wood I'll be home for the main event.

I didn't get back in time with how quickly the main event ended...

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Superb counter hook by Gastelum got Bisping out of there. Kelvin was having trouble closing the distance but Bisping eliminated that space for him by throwing a wide hook that missed. Whoever throws the tighter punches is always going to win that exchange and it's usually not good news for the person who loses.

...First time MIchael Bisping's knocked out cold since THAT 1- 2 by Dan Henderson at UFC 100, right?

[Guest Edwin]

3 hours ago, The Natural said:

...First time MIchael Bisping's knocked out cold since THAT 1- 2 by Dan Henderson at UFC 100, right?

1-2?

That was just an overhand right that put Bisping to sleep.

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 minutes ago, Edwin said:

1-2?

That was just an overhand right that put Bisping to sleep.

TBH that flying forearm could very well be the 2 in that combination.

[TheVileOne]

Michael Bisping should not have been allowed to take this fight three weeks after the GSP fight where he was more than likely concussed.  I question the legitimacy of any doctor who cleared him for this fight as well.

[OSJ]

1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

Michael Bisping should not have been allowed to take this fight three weeks after the GSP fight where he was more than likely concussed.  I question the legitimacy of any doctor who cleared him for this fight as well.

And your medical degree is from...

[Kevin Wilson]

While I don't think if he cleared his medicals he should have been prevented from taking the fight, I am not sure if common sense should have allowed it. But its his life, if he doesn't mind being pounded into the canvas then I surely don't, he knew what he was getting into.

[Elsalvajeloco]

41 minutes ago, OSJ said:

And your medical degree is from...

Cockamamie U. It's accredited...I checked.

[supremebve]

Gastelum is legitimately one of the most talented fighters in the sport.  He's tough as nails, hits like a ton of bricks, umm...some other construction metaphor for him being only 26 years old.  If only he was fighting in the correct division.  

[TheVileOne]

1 hour ago, OSJ said:

And your medical degree is from...

You don't need a medical degree to know he shouldn't have been fighting three weeks after he took a serious beating.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

18 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Gastelum is legitimately one of the most talented fighters in the sport.  He's tough as nails, hits like a ton of bricks, umm...some other construction metaphor for him being only 26 years old.  If only he was fighting in the correct division.  

He was pretty round in the middle for this fight. 

I mean he backed Bisping up for the first 45 seconds of the fight and then Bisping was able to use his reach to keep Gastelum at bay for the next minute or so. I dunno how many other top middleweights are going to give Gastelum the same opportunity of exchanging hooks with a 5'9" middleweight on the inside like Bisping did. Bisping basically did the same exact thing Caceres in his fight except Caceres was from the southpaw stance and it was off what look to be a simple jab. I've never seen a SOUTHPAW fighter run into the lead hand of an orthodox fighter like Caceres did. And he did it TWICE.

I think the Weidman fight revealed the good and bad of Gastelum being at 185. From a speed and skill perspective, he is going to have a chance to land that big shot. However, he isn't going to be presented that many opportunities on a silver platter. If he gets outwrestled and outgrappled by bigger men, he isn't going to be able to get out from under them. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

8 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

You don't need a medical degree to know he shouldn't have been fighting three weeks after he took a serious beating.  

Yeah you do because that's why they have the doctors in the first place. If the commissions only needed some asshole on the internet, they would just get you and keep their money.

[OSJ]

17 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

You don't need a medical degree to know he shouldn't have been fighting three weeks after he took a serious beating.  

Apparently your ideas and mine of what constitutes a "serious beating" are two very different things. The "serious beatings" I'm familiar with involve broken bones, trips to the hospital and often permanent severe injury. Bisping lost an MMA fight and was probably out on the town the next day. 

[TheVileOne]

He got straight up knocked down by GSP and then choked unconscious.  And that was deep into a grueling fight where he took quite a bit of damage.

Sorry, but it's not a good look to pull Mark Hunt from a fight due to potential fear of his health, and then turn around and book Bisping for a main event fight three weeks after he got beat up by GSP.  

Also there's this from Dana White in 2013:

https://www.mmamania.com/2013/1/8/3852326/ufc-president-dana-white-mma-concussions-nfl-mma

Quote

“First of all, if you get a concussion, if you get knocked out or you get hurt whatsoever in the UFC, three months suspension,” White said. “You are on suspension for three months, and you cannot come back until you are cleared by a doctor. You can’t have any contact whatsoever. In the NFL, you’re not going to lose Tom Brady for three months, man. You lose Tom Brady for three months, and your whole season is wiped out.”

I guess in UFC time, three weeks = three months. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

When it comes to clearing any fighters, you have to be able to quantify what damage someone has sustained. I don't know any doctor or physician who uses "serious beating" as a medical term. Furthermore, I don't know what doctor or physician uses a phrase like "possible concussion?". Either you suffered injuries that they can actually verify or something fishy comes up on a scan to where they will refuse to clear you. I mean they can take heed to certain advice, however, fighters who want to fight and most importantly, are cleared to fight will more than likely make their own decisions when it comes who and when they chose to fight.

Moreover, the UFC at this point who pulled someone off the card that happened last Saturday because of neurological concerns isn't going to fuck around with that. So if Bisping wasn't able to fight, he wouldn't be fighting. Short and simple. Once cleared, everything falls on Bisping and his choice to take the fight. Based on his post fight interview, I don't think Bisping seems regretful for making that choice. Therefore, we can move on.

[Elsalvajeloco]

13 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

He got straight up knocked down by GSP and then choked unconscious.  And that was deep into a grueling fight where he took quite a bit of damage.

Okay, what ACTUAL damage did he sustain in fight that would medically rule out ANY fighter from a fight? And I want proof from medical reports provided by the NYSAC to prove that Michael Bisping suffered these injuries. A fracture? A ligament tear? 

[Hagan]

I have issues on fighters walking into fights they know they can't win. Everyone knew Bisping was getting taken out on that short notice. But, what can ya do?

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 minutes ago, Hagan said:

I have issues on fighters walking into fights they know they can't win. 

If he didn't think he could win, he wouldn't have taken the fight. And it's not like anyone would have blamed him for not taking it. He wasn't held at gunpoint. 

[jaedmc]

I normally love the idea of their being some kind of nefarious dealings behind closed doors. Like how some WWE wrestlers can use steroids but others can't etc etc etc. But I just don't see the point here.

Why give Bisping a special pass for a Shanghai fight? It's only three weeks notice, so I can't imagine he'd bump the gate that much. He was the guy that just got choked out of a title after all. And if I were the UFC front office I'd be worried about my investment in him. He's a draw. Why throw his comeback fight away on a Shanghai Fight Night? His odds of losing are greater, it just damages him for the money fight I could make later.

If he wasn't passed because of his health, then he was passed for business reasons, and from my perspective - the business reasons don't make sense. You'd have to be pretty dumb to do that. Then again, I think it's dumb to let him fight even if his medical is cleared, so maybe they are that dumb.

[OSJ]

@jaedmc, I actually think you're 100% right on business reasons. Bisping (like him or not is somewhat of a draw who has made no secret that the clock is winding down), UFC is likely determined to get as much as they can out of him before he hangs it up for good, it's not like he has a future as a commentator. ;-)

[A_K]

Bisping fighting was not only farcical and foolhardy from a fighter perspective (a card in China?? On god knows what time in the US??) but IMO the sort of decision that puts the sport back. A prize-fighter at that elite level should not be trotted out weeks after being finished in a previous fight. If that card is in US/EU doubt he gets sanctioned. Does the fact it got sanctioned in China remove all those doubts?? Not really. Sad for him too. Does nothing for him but reinforce the perception (right or wrong) that he was a paper champion.

[Hagan]

I don't think Bisping credibly thought he was going to walk in there and take out Kelvin. Maybe in the ol "I got a puncher's chance" way but no way him and his team thought he had a good shot. 

It's what used to annoy me about how Chael would volunteer to fight guys on like two day notices. Just a ridiculous notion for the competitiveness of the sport.  

[TheVileOne]

Bisping won the belt legitimately.  The man arguably put the work in and had earned a shot at the belt after everything he had put in to the sport.  But after he won the belt, it seemed like he was doing everything to avoid the tougher match-ups.  His first defense was against Dan Henderson who wasn't even ranked in the top 10 when they fought.  After that he seemed to be doing everything possible to make sure he wasn't fighting the top contenders and was only going to fight his desired moneyweight match-ups.  

Not saying I don't understand his strategy.  Dude is 38 and he finally has the belt.  His career is arguably complete from a legitimacy and achievement standpoint since the belt was the one thing that had been eluding hi his entire UFC career.  But it looks bad to the fans when you are fighting the tougher fights that are in front of you.  Bisping knew he wasn't going to hold on to the belt long and wanted his million dollar fight.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 hours ago, jaedmc said:

I normally love the idea of their being some kind of nefarious dealings behind closed doors. Like how some WWE wrestlers can use steroids but others can't etc etc etc. But I just don't see the point here.

Why give Bisping a special pass for a Shanghai fight? It's only three weeks notice, so I can't imagine he'd bump the gate that much. He was the guy that just got choked out of a title after all. And if I were the UFC front office I'd be worried about my investment in him. He's a draw. Why throw his comeback fight away on a Shanghai Fight Night? His odds of losing are greater, it just damages him for the money fight I could make later.

He's retiring in March so it's not like he is a prospect you're expecting to have on roster for the next several years. And it's not a comeback fight. HE JUST FOUGHT THREE WEEKS AGO! If he decides to fight at the O2 in March, I doubt this has an affect on the ticket sales. He has been the most consistent draw in the UK since UFC 70 through career highs and lows.

On this show, he was the most over foreigner so I'm guessing people did pay to come see him after Anderson dropped off the card.

1 hour ago, A_K said:

 If that card is in US/EU doubt he gets sanctioned. 

That's absurd because the U.S. commissions have sanctioned all types of people. For fuck sakes, New York has sanctioned Antonio Margarito AND Michael Bisping who both have two good eyes between them. Hell yeah, this would get sanctioned.

1 hour ago, Hagan said:

I don't think Bisping credibly thought he was going to walk in there and take out Kelvin. Maybe in the ol "I got a puncher's chance" way but no way him and his team thought he had a good shot. 

In a decade plus of knowing Michael Bisping, he would be the last guy I would expect to have a confidence issue. Now the misguided confidence may be a big issue, but that hasn't stopped him before.

[The Natural]

On 25/11/2017 at 7:23 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

TBH that flying forearm could very well be the 2 in that combination.

Yep, that's the 2. Cheers, @Elsalvajeloco.