Beech27 Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Matt D said: (if there's long-term value in that title change, it's making the overly needy UK fans feel like they matter). I wonder if they're thinking it allows them to do the same thing in India? There's a difference, at least in terms of perception, between markets you defend titles in, and markets you change titles in. Suggesting they're the latter could be another step in making inroads, and give Jinder a "moment" that would (hopefully) get a lot of local coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandonr4s Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I wouldn't blame any wrestler that works for that company for protesting the shitty booking. Sami shouldn't be losing right now, he just made the turn and he's one of the most interesting parts of the show. This just happens way too often now, the matches don't really mean anything. AJ Styles, the new champion, was pinned clean by Baron Corbin just weeks ago...for what? Jinder Mahal has a long feud with Randy Orton, wins the PPV matches, comes out on top...turns right around and jobs to Orton clean on a random Smackdown. And how is anyone expected to take Balor seriously knowing he could be beaten in minutes by old man Kane? It's fucking stupid and unnecessary. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Sweetser Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 Owens and Zayn weren't LOSING to New Day in this whole thing - it was apparently supposed to be a bump and feed for them. Would've been 30 seconds and nobody would've thought anything at the end. Sorry, I'm with WWE on this one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 I see both sides of the argument. Owens and Zayn shouldn’t have “went into business for themselves” but it was the better booking decision IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam O'Rourke Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It's just one of those stupid conflicts of interest - they position guys to be the new hot heel act, then realise they actually need them to put over the babyfaces to get them ready for the next PPV. Timing was awful to have Zayn and Owens lose to Nakamura and Orton, and it really didn't make a lot of sense to use them in those matches anyway (wrestling for the right to defend Smackdown, the show ran by the guy they hate?). I can sympathize in that it has to drive you crazy to be in a company that seems completed scattershot with the lack of care in protecting pushes and characters in almost every case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 What a couple of stupid marks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peck Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Web Conn said: I see both sides of the argument. Owens and Zayn shouldn’t have “went into business for themselves” but it was the better booking decision IMO. That's a dangerous slope to establish. "Without rules, there's chaos." - Cosmo Kramer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 It's bad booking but that's kinda part of what you sign up for in WWE. If they were supposed to take an ass-kicking from New Day, however long it was supposed to be, you can fight that fight in the back but once it's time to go out there, you do what was agreed upon whether you like it or not or you don't walk out in the first place. Possibly an extreme example but suppose Kofi sees them on the outside, thinks "Ok it's not done so I'll do a dive" and oops no one to catch? Sorry but that's just incredibly unprofessional of them, and if this is what happened, I'm really disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 5 hours ago, Web Conn said: I see both sides of the argument. Owens and Zayn shouldn’t have “went into business for themselves” but it was the better booking decision IMO. There's one side to this argument: wrestlers have to be able to trust each other. If what Owens and Zayn is accused of is true, they violated that trust with New Day. Take Vince McMahon from the equation. If I'm a wrestler and they did that because they hated their booking, why would I feel comfortable working with them? We could never get away with attitudes like that if we're employed. At the end of the day, WWE is a business and wrestlers are expected to behave accordingly. Vince McMahon is the boss. Whether anyone likes it is not the point. It's his company and he makes the final choice. KO and Zayn certainly know this. Again, we don't know many of the details. But I'll say if this rumor surrounded other wrestlers, many of you wouldn't be so understanding. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 You're 100% right, because if it were someone like Mojo Rawley or Enzo I'd say they haven't spent more than ten years scraping and clawing to get into the WWE only to ruin their chances because of one questionable booking decision. That's the part that doesn't make sense. From what I know, these guys have always been pros and they're happy to be where they are. Why would they throw that away because they don't want to sell for the New Day? And that's why I think there's either more to it or it's a work. And if I'm wrong, then yeah, I'll be very disappointed. That kind of shitty ego trip nonsense has no place in the WWE or any company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Web Conn Posted November 9, 2017 Share Posted November 9, 2017 What a coincidence ROHs Throwback Thursday is Generico vs Steen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabremike Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Meltzer has said it might've been a communication screw-up which would be the story that makes the most sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVileOne Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 If Owens and Zayn really did that, then there's really no excuse for that. I dunno. Communication screw-up just sounds like damage control from the Owens and Zayn camps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 16 hours ago, MORELOCK said: they're the longest reigning tag team champions in the history of the company *Longest reigning trio. @Matt D AJ could barely get something watchable out of the Jinder Bender. Brock vs Jinder would be a war crime If they want an act for India, why not gets Singhs out of the waiter uniforms and give them the tag titles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuubi Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Victator said: *Longest reigning trio. @Matt D AJ could barely get something watchable out of the Jinder Bender. Brock vs Jinder would be a war crime If they want an act for India, why not gets Singhs out of the waiter uniforms and give them the tag titles? You've never seen the Singhs I take it. They are a poor man's version of the Young Bucks and that is something. And quite honestly, I do not know why this India Tour is so damn valuable that they put their best title around Jinder unless they don't value that belt at all which they don't. I mean giving Jinder the Intercontinental Title would have sufficed, but fuck this company. I am so done trying to figure out it's booking because it is never logical on any level. I just literally come around for the one or two matches that mean something to me and the 3 or 4 superstars that I care about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathyBoy Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 I can't speak for why Jinder got the push, nor is he great in ring, but thank God him and Miz actually try to be heels in this day and age. I want Jinder to lose whenever he wrestles. I don't root for him at all. And that's refreshing. Not to mention how he stepped up his promo game and carries himself like a star. I mean if it came down to him or Rusev for that role, fans would get behind Rusev eventually. They hate Jinder, which is an achievement in 2017. I give the guy full props for running with the hot shot booking. And genuinely can't wait until he's back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 He’s sort of the world’s worst 2002 Xavier? 7 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Victator said: *Longest reigning trio. You're going to have to explain your "correction" a little further - they made it a point to make them the longest reigning tag team champions in the history of the company, duo or trio, no asterisk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathyBoy Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Just now, Matt D said: He’s sort of the world’s worst 2002 Xavier? Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuubi Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 2 hours ago, DeathyBoy said: I can't speak for why Jinder got the push, nor is he great in ring, but thank God him and Miz actually try to be heels in this day and age. I want Jinder to lose whenever he wrestles. I don't root for him at all. And that's refreshing. Not to mention how he stepped up his promo game and carries himself like a star. I mean if it came down to him or Rusev for that role, fans would get behind Rusev eventually. They hate Jinder, which is an achievement in 2017. I give the guy full props for running with the hot shot booking. And genuinely can't wait until he's back. Okay, since you brought up the Miz, I guess I can make a point. The Miz is hateable because his entire character, moveset, and even his facial expressions revolves around him being a heel. Miz is a damn good heel because he commits to it and makes it convincing. He commits. Miz is not the most athletic, the most skilled, most entertaining, the toughest, most physically imposing or the strongest. In general, he is mediocre as hell. Nothing about him or his offense or ring work makes him stand out. He is the cookie cutter wrestler or more specifically, he is the cookie cutter WWE wrestler. His finisher? He sneaks up behind guys and waits to their groggy and defenseless or unsuspecting. His moveset? Bits of pieces of noticable offense taken from more skilled and better wrestlers that he does not perform well enough. His general wrestling psychology? He is an opportunist who creatively capitalizes off his opponent's mistakes or creates openings via outside interference, referee manipulation, or just plain cheating. The Miz's entire persona from top to bottom is literally an amalgamation of wrestlers of the past that he, as a character, could never live up to and hopes that either mimicking them or ripping them off he can. That is his character. Is Miz one of the best heel wrestlers of all time? Maybe. I don't know, but I think he is a strong contender. But Jinder is different because he is a product of a long dead archetype that is quite frankly beneath everyone's intelligence: the foreign villain. I can look over the fact that he is from fucking Michigan and the WWE tried to prop him as India's greatest export, Jinder, the character, looks great. He looks physically imposing and if it weren't for that shitty attitude and being a bore and being unskilled in the ring, he would be liked. People don't hate Jinder for what he is trying to convey like the Miz. People hate Jinder because he is just either mediocre or subpar to watch. That is not the type of heat that you want to draw because the satisfaction of Jinder losing and getting beaten comes from "yay, we finally have something to watch again" kind of heat. When Miz loses, you actually wanted to see him lose and get his comeuppance. Not because he was not entertaining. It was because he was actually an asshole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam O'Rourke Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 The flip side to this also is - Miz was able to get away with the cheap, shitty wins to a degree (until they pushed him passed his station), whereas Jinder, by beating top guys, hurts everybody he beats because nobody believes in him in the first place, even mildly. It didn't get Jinder more over or more heated to beat Nakamura twice. It just hurt Shinsuke. So if you don't draw and you don't get heat and the matches are no good, what is it accomplishing? If they wanted a play for India, him winning and renaming the United States title so his people could be represented would have been a safer, slower burn move. Would it have yielded the headlines? Who knows, but those headlines didn't mean anything anyway. Still eager to see if anybody knows how those India shows are doing for ticket sales. If they aren't drawing, I wonder if that played a part in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 5 hours ago, MORELOCK said: You're going to have to explain your "correction" a little further - they made it a point to make them the longest reigning tag team champions in the history of the company, duo or trio, no asterisk. Three men held and defended the belts concurrently. Ergo they are not the longest reigning duo to hold the belts. So I hope they like European comics, because they getting an asterisk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Victator said: Three men held and defended the belts concurrently. Ergo they are not the longest reigning duo to hold the belts. So I hope they like European comics, because they getting an asterisk. Oooookay, well, regardless of whether The New Day meets your personal standards for what constitutes tag team champions, my point about them being the WWE's recognized longest reigning tag team champions, and not needing to be built up for the Shield, remains. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 6 hours ago, Kyuubi said: I can look over the fact that he is from fucking Michigan Hey hey hey he's from Calgary Alberta, Canada 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted November 10, 2017 Share Posted November 10, 2017 Since anything was better than Victator and Morelock in an argument over semantics, back to Jinder: I don't hate Jinder because he's a great heel. Hell, I don't hate him period. I just have no interest in watching him. I don't want to see him get beat up, I don't want to see his comeuppance, I want him to stop having such a prominent role in the company because he's not a good wrestler, not a good promo, and not even a good character. It's stock "foreign heel" crap which as is often the case is stuck on someone allegedly (though not really) from a country WE DON'T HAVE BEEF WITH IN THE FIRST PLACE. "He tries to be a heel." Fuck off with that shit. Kevin Owens, the character, is a dishonest, venal, vile, hypocritical, manipulative asshole every second he's on camera. He stabs friends in the back the second he thinks it benefits him to do so. He is abusive towards people who do not threaten him, and a raging coward towards people who do. He USES HIS SON AS AN EXCUSE for why he is such a despicable person, despite the fact that there's clear signs he's good enough to provide for his family without needing to be that way, when clearly his motivation is nothing more than self-aggrandizement. And every so often we'll hear this "he tries not to be a heel" stuff because his matches are ENTERTAINING, and because he can be funny in promos. God forbid a performer make his performances interesting. Jinder sure doesn't. And that's not entirely his fault. He tries. He does. But AJ Styles is superior in every way other than physique, and I don't watch bodybuilding so IDGAF. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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