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NJPW WrestleKingdom 12 in Tokyo Dome 1/4/2018


Raziel

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Since I'm probably not gonna be home Friday night I went ahead and watched Goto/Suzuki in the 2018 Matches thread and yeah, that was awesome. Suzuki was on point this time and damn near killed Goto at the outset with that sleeper, backing into the ropes, walking up and then full extension which was boss... then as Kengo Kimura (I think?) freaks out and checks on Goto (whos eyes are rolling back in his head) Suzuki just sits there on the top turnbuckle, arms folded, like Crom strong on his mountain. So, so baller. Suzuki still has the cooler of all elbows in NJ and Goto have to use three to his one was a nice touch. Killer replays, an AWESOME dropkick, the interference being spoiled, Goto just dying again and again and coming back, it was a great match that didn't wear out its welcome. Then Suzuki comes back, bats the chair out of the way to put down his own chair then shaves his own head, just a perfect capper. No blood for a hair match even, and I'm actually not complaining about that! 

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Was reading this board for some time now and I feel like this is as good place to start posting as any. Not going to say anything about the matches since I don't feel like I can add anything that hasn't been said multiple times already, but I feel like pitching in some of my thoughts on Naito.

On why Naito lost, well it looks like they want the Ace winning every Dome main event and Okada is the current Ace. Regardless of what we think about it I think it makes sense to have your main star, that you are building company around, to be showcased on your biggest show. Looking back at recent stuff in AJPW I think that for similar reasoning Kento defeated Ishikawa on their anniversary show and then immediately dropped the title to Suwama.

I have seen many people theorizing (mostly in other forums/reddits) that this is basically Naito's WK9 moment and he will overcome Okada next time just like how Okada finally overcame Tanahashi at Wk10. And I just don't see, Naito and Okada don't have anything in common really asides of both being top guys so why they both would have to go thru same story arc? Besides, it doesn't really make sense to dethrone Okada in 2019 (or even 2020) so that Naito can stay on top for couple of years before he gives it back to Okada? I think they'd just end up hurting Okada with such booking while not doing that much for Naito.

Will Naito beat Okada on some non-Dome show and get another title run down the line? Maybe, probably, does it really matter? People often talk about how IWGP title is most prestigious wrestling title in the world and it is hard to argue against that, but at the same time I think that Naito isn't wrong in that quote. He is bigger than that title, just how Tanahashi was bigger than it at WK8. AJ held the title for some time, Omega hasn't touched it yet (and might never touch it for all we know) yet I think nobody is going argue that Omega currently isn't bigger star in Japan than AJ ever was. And I think that good point was made in this thread about how the title is now basically a part of Okada's gimmick so do we really need Naito to get another run with it? Probably will just hurt Okada more than it will help Naito.

So I think it is all about the status, I remember in some interview last year Naito said that he isn't excited about beating Okada or becoming the champ, because he has done these things already, he is looking way more to main eventing WK because that was his dream since he was 15 years old. Main eventing WK matters more than getting a run with the title (and thats I'd say is one of the main reasons why Omega is bigger than AJ). Winning WK main event obviously matters even more.

And here I think we have a bit of a problem. Omega can really take Nakamura's place as alternate Ace because, at least to me, it looks like he is enjoying his time as US champ and won't mind at all being the face of their western expansion even if it means that it will place him below Okada for rest of his NJPW career. But Naito? I feel that to him becoming "alternate Ace" would be same as defeat, he is Shuyaku, he isn't here to be supporting player and as we seen last year he finds idea of secondary singles titles idiotic (many people say that he hates IC title solely due to WK8, but in his interviews he said same things about NEVER and US titles too) so what can he really do maintain (and hopefully grow) his status? Has Naito reached his peak already?

Earlier in the thread there was a post about how biggest Kawada's wins against Misawa were in tag teams. And I find this idea interesting, now, maybe I'm wrong but I don't remember Naito ever shitting on tag team titles. Granted, I think that it is possible that since he wasn't really involved with them he didn't really have an opportunity to do that. So could Naito do that? Imagine, semi-main event at WK for tag team titles with Naito in it. I'm sure that someone is going to ask "how that is different from Nakamura and Omega situation?" and I think it is different. I don't think that anyone can seriously explain what exact purpose of IC, US and NEVER titles is in terms of kayfabe. I mean, we all know that they are there so that lower tier guys could get some accolades, but in terms of kayfabe they don't mean anything. Probably only NEVER title could have some meaning if it was actually open weight and would serve as a bridge between heavyweight and junior divisions. So anyway, back to tag teams. Tag Team titles are actually fundamentally different to singles titles so Naito being the Ace of that division could give him higher status than someone holding second rate heavyweight title. In terms of kayfabe I can, without a doubt, say that Okada is stronger than Tanahashi, Goto and Omega in singles competition despite all four of them being champions, but could I say that any of them are better than Naito (if he would become the Ace of that division) at tag team wrestling? No. But what we could say is that "Okada is best in singles and Naito is best in tag teams" which is fundamentally better than "Okada is best in singles, but if you don't like him maybe you'll like Omega who isn't as good in singles as Okada".

And remember how during WTL Naito spent more time talking shit about that tour than about his upcoming match with Okada? At the time we all assumed that it was "Naito gonna Naito" thing, but maybe he really wants WTL to be a big fucking deal and he is going to show us this year? And yes, I realize that most likely all that I wrote here is wishful thinking, but I don't know, I honestly doesn't see any other path further for Naito that wouldn't betray (or regress) his character.

A bit of a side-topic, but I think that Sanada beating Okada is possible. I mean, I'd say that Okada winning is at something like 90%, but if it happens I won't be surprised. They can really do a story here about how Sanada ends up stopping his two big title runs and when they meet again in 2019 or 2020 they can build whole "Will Okada finally prevail against Sanada?!?!?" narrative around it and sell some tickets. It could also give some material for Naito/Sanada match because Naito would obviously say that he, not Sanada, ended Okada's previous run and they both would have a point. Anyway, most likely outcome is still battered down Tanahashi trying and failing to stop Okada from breaking his record, but since it looks so obvious... maybe we are not going to get that.

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Probably not when he got them. I think we'd have gotten AJ vs. Kenny in place of Kenny vs. Cody and a lot sooner too. The stuff with Ibushi would make a lot more sense too when you think back to Kenny distracting Kota from hitting the phoenix splash on AJ. 

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It drives me a bit crazy that, for all the interviews Kenny does, no one asks him that. I mean, I get it. You don't want to insinuate he was the backup plan, owes his success to luck, etc. Even in broad terms though, the transition is fascinating. He went from being the chainsaw-arm junior to winning the G1 to headlining with Okada. Virtually everyone treats the last part as the jumping off point for conversations with him, but the whole thing is crazy, and--even in hindsight--seems incredibly risky.

4 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Probably not when he got them. I think we'd have gotten AJ vs. Kenny in place of Kenny vs. Cody and a lot sooner too. The stuff with Ibushi would make a lot more sense too when you think back to Kenny distracting Kota from hitting the phoenix splash on AJ. 

I think this is probably about right, and it is interesting to consider how far back--kinda by accident?--Ibushi's BC problems go. He and Kenny wrestled Devitt in tags and singles both before the group was founded, and one of the BC's early group beatdown victims was Ibushi. Then there was AJ, Kenny's timid betrayal, Cody trying to take his head off... yeah.  

Anyway, I tend to think New Japan had a contingency in place for AJ leaving, because they must have assumed an offer was coming someday, and he'd take it when it did. Losing Nakamura, on the other hand, was probably a shock, and I think it's also really fascinating to wonder what he'd be up to if he had stayed. Does Chaos ever explode? Does Naito become the same sensation without the 1A rebel ace spot cleared?

(Not that New Japan isn't doing just fine without him, but a heavyweight scene that still includes Nakamura--and Shibata, while we're wishing--is just unreal.)

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Yeah, I mean, in 8 months Kenny went from jobbing in a Juniors title match and being like the fourth guy in BC to winning the G1. 

If AJ doesn't jump, Kenny and The Bucks don't get that chance to really launch themselves as The Elite at Dash. Kenny probably stays junior for at least a little longer. He probably doesn't get moved into the IC title picture at all. It's nuts.

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6 hours ago, Beech27 said:

Losing Nakamura, on the other hand, was probably a shock, and I think it's also really fascinating to wonder what he'd be up to if he had stayed. Does Chaos ever explode? Does Naito become the same sensation without the 1A rebel ace spot cleared?

I'd say that probably we would have gotten Nakamura/Naito before (or instead of?) Tanahashi/Naito. I know that our perception is shaped by what we saw already, but I can't really imagine where else Naito could have really gone after WK 10.

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