NJPW WrestleKingdom 12 in Tokyo Dome 1/4/2018

[Niners Fan in CT]

I think Okada going over was the wrong choice too.  If Naito hadn't worked out you can always go back to Okada.  Naito and LIJ have a chance to get some crossover appeal going much like the Bullet Club.  It's a mistake to not try to capitalize on that and see where it goes.   I felt Omega not going over last year was the wrong choice too.   I like Okada a lot but NJPW is playing it too safe two years in a row. 

Plus,  there's nowhere to go for him from here.  He's cleaned out the division. 

[Jiji]

There's history to chase and Omega getting one last shot perhaps, though it's entirely possible they hold that off until WK 13 if he's going to stick around through 2019. I would not be shocked at all if this is a mirror of Okada crying at the Dome following his failure to beat Tanahashi leading towards his triumphant comeback a year later, though I don't think Gedo will be that predictable/lazy.

[The Natural]

[sevendaughters]

I think Okada going over reminded me, to a certain extent, of Kobashi getting the win over Akiyama in 2004. In retrospect Kobashi's reign extending to 2 years makes that reign look amazing, but it was probably the wrong choice and it turns out you can't always recapture that energy and feeling, sometimes it dissipates. I don't think NJPW will be performing in front of half-full Ariakes in 10 years though.

[Marty Sugar]

Do you think they're keeping the title on Okada until he breaks all the records? He's already held the title for more combined days and has the longest single run as champion, but he needs 7 more defenses to best Tanahashi...which seems like a shit-ton. Curiouis....

[sevendaughters]

I think he'll drop by the G1. Gut feeling, based on nothing.

[Brian Fowler]

21 minutes ago, Marty Sugar said:

Do you think they're keeping the title on Okada until he breaks all the records? He's already held the title for more combined days and has the longest single run as champion, but he needs 7 more defenses to best Tanahashi...which seems like a shit-ton. Curiouis....

I mean, he's gonna get that record eventually. He's going to get the belt at least a couple more times before he's doing. He's only 30.

I think he needs two more to tie and three to break most in one reign

[Marty Sugar]

He's held the title 4 times; Tanahashi has held it seven times. I know New Japan likes long title reigns from their aces, so who knows...?

[Beech27]

Tanahashi “benefitted”—if only in this context—from the other would-be dynastic champs of his generation bombing, leaving, etc. I don’t think New Japan would need to go back to Okada as often, since the roster is so deep. But they may want to.

[Brian Fowler]

6 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

Tanahashi “benefitted”—if only in this context—from the other would-be dynastic champs of his generation bombing, leaving, etc. I don’t think New Japan would need to go back to Okada as often, since the roster is so deep. But they may want to.

It's true, but you can't really put someone that good out to pasture at 31 or whatever. 

[sevendaughters]

Okada could have an Inoki esque detour where he beats up bloated MMA goons and kareteka and Kamala

[Brian Fowler]

Just now, sevendaughters said:

Okada could have an Inoki esque detour where he beats up bloated MMA goons and kareteka and Kamala

I'm not sure beating up Kamala will get him the same reactions these days as Inoki got

[cubbymark]

5 hours ago, Oyaji said:

I fucking love. that. match! I don't know if there's a lot of point in entering a debate with cubbymark regarding New Japan, though you did a very nice job of defending Tanahashi.

There are things I like about New Japan: LIJ, the Juniors for the most part, Minoru Suzuki, Toru Yano, Baretta has been really fucking good. Ishii has his moments. Yugi Nagata and Togi Makabe are enjoyable.

It's just something about Okada and Tanahashi that just doesn't connect with me, and I can't see what other people do in them. I am very open about that.

Tanahashi has to working people with respect to being continually hurt.if he were as banged up as we would be led to believe, he would work a more reduced role. Maybe it's pride, maybe it's ego, maybe it's just the culture. But at some point this overexposure and desire to remain 'ace' may be detrimental to New Japan's growth as a whole. And that's not best for business.

[Beech27]

Taste is what it is, which is fine.

It just seems like you're assuming an awful lot there--and stating it with a crazy degree of certainty--when there have been precisely zero rumors that Tanahashi rejects losses, refuses to put people over, or works injuries to falsely burnish his reputation. The evidence pretty clearly suggests the opposite, in fact. And considering the trajectory the company is on--largely because of Okada Naito, and Omega, each of whom he ultimately put over--I think it's very difficult to argue he's detrimental to business. Like, could he be? Someday? I guess. But there's literally no reason to believe that. Certainly not based off of one win over Jay White, a debutante who will, I'm virtually certain, be fine. And if he isn't, it won't be because he lost in the Dome to one of the biggest stars in company history.

[Spritenaut 32]

5 hours ago, The Natural said:

I'm generally ok with Kenny's goofy antics, but I really wish he had toned it down for WK this year.  They framed the match as a hate-filled brawl.  Nothing says "I'm ready to fight" like dressing as an extra from Stargate, complete with giant space gun.

Then again, Okada wore his zubaz to a major title defense, so what do I know.

[Craig H]

Okada's pants were fucking awesome. That is some Jin Kazama from Tekken type shit. Made me wish that Gedo had cosplayed as Heihachi. I mean, just look at those two! Gedo better be careful. Okada may throw him into a volcano at some point.

[EVA]

5 minutes ago, Keep Calm, Akira Hokuto On said:

Nothing says "I'm ready to fight" like dressing as an extra from Stargate, complete with giant space gun.

 

 

On 1/4/2018 at 5:32 AM, EVA said:

Nothing says “I’m here for a fight” like Stargate cosplay.

[Craig H]

I'm going back and re-watching some of the matches and I weirdly wound up liking Suzuki vs Goto more the second time through. I think Dave is nuts to say it's as good as or better than Okada vs Naito, but it's really fucking good. I like that as I get older that my wrestling identity feels more defined. I already knew that I loved fights. It's why Jericho vs Omega was maybe my favorite match because they delivered on making their match into a fucking fight. I also realized that I love it when you can feel the fucking HATRED in a ring. That's what I got from Suzuki vs Goto. Suzuki is such a dickhead and there is some massive hate. It wasn't the most exciting match, but it told a story that was capped off by Suzuki saying fuck this, stumbling back to the ring, grabbing his own motherfucking chair, knocking the chair Goto put down out of the way, and shaving his own head. On first watch I laughed real hard at Suzuki knocking Goto's chair into the ropes. I laughed even harder the second time.

I also re-watched Okada vs Naito and kept in mind some of the psychology pointed out on here and elsewhere. Yo, that match is fucking amazing, but it happened at the wrong time and in the wrong setting. The only reason I feel that was is because I worry that this was the peak for Naito. Obviously, if he can maintain and even build on his heat all the way through next year, then WK13 would be the perfect final chapter for Naito where he puts it all together and doesn't make those mistakes. Again, I just worry he's going to fade a bit. I've seen comparisons to Okada losing to Tanahashi, or Misawa going over Kawada, but this was more like an alternate universe where Austin doesn't beat HBK at WM. You can stretch the story out for another year, but is the moment going to be as grand as the one you just passed on? Anyway, as it is, Okada vs Naito tells a very amazing and nuanced story.

[Craig H]

BTW, speaking of wrestling attire, was Jericho practically wearing pillows on his knees during his last WWE run? Dude looked like he was going to install wall to wall carpeting with those knee pads.

[sevendaughters]

there were bits that were hate-filled brawl but also he called back to the dumb as fvkk match at WK9 with Taguchi with that spray.

[Beech27]

I get the spray in the context of the story I think they were going for, that Kenny--laser rifle and all--is gonna Kenny, that compromising too much of himself would signify that he was working Jericho's match; and indeed he ultimately won when the match shifted from wandering "WWE style" brawl to his comfortable territory of flashy counters and bomb exchanges. At least... I can talk myself into that being the narrative purpose of the dick spraying, if I'm being really generous. Mostly it just annoyed me, though, if I'm being totally honest, and all that is absolutely reaching. (But, I have found reaching/other-thinking tends to be rewarding in Omega matches. He does The Most, always, for better and worse, but he virtually always does it for a reason.)

[Craig H]

The spray counter bit didn't bother me as much as it bothered you guys. Kenny using the spray to get out of the Walls was fine and then him using it on himself was a moment of levity in an otherwise intense match. I have no problems with it. 

[Tromatagon]

7 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I think Okada going over was the wrong choice too.  If Naito hadn't worked out you can always go back to Okada.  Naito and LIJ have a chance to get some crossover appeal going much like the Bullet Club.  

CMLL owns Los Ingobernables, so you're not going to see crossover appeal like LIJ shirts in Hot Topic outselling all the WWE merch.

I still think Naito should have won though.

I also thought Suzuki/Goto was better than the main but it telegraphed the finish too much in telling the story it told.

 

Also guys, we don't know what kind of stress Kenny's junk is under.  Maybe you need that soothing cooling spray after some of the people he's banged.

[kiguchi]

The entirety of the blading sequence in Omega/Jericho was funny as shit. Red shoes and Omega botched the hand off of the blade the first time (you can see the thing fly off). The ref later went back to Omega with the blade but Omega opted to try and draw blood hardway. When that didn't work, he hailed the ref over to hand him over the blade.

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

Okada vs Naito was fantastic. Those pants alone are 5*!