NXT Takeover: WARGAMES~~~!!!

[Brian Fowler]

She is Almas's gimmick

[turk128]

1 hour ago, offspring515 said:

Zelina Vega interacting with Drew was hilarious. She looked like his 8 year old daughter. She adds a ton to Alma's gimmick. 

It's great to see how she really helps sell Almas. She does for Almas what Bliss did for Blake and Murphy.

I really hope WWE finally realize the importance of managers/handlers and it leads to a new age.

[Craig H]

4 hours ago, RIPPA said:

 

I think it's awesome that Obediah Stane works for WWE now.

[Kropotkin's Beard]

Man, that was a lot of fun from top to bottom. I really don't watch much in the way of modern wrestling these days, mostly I just have the Network to watch the stuff I couldn't see as a kid, Raw and Nitro. The women's match felt a little that something was missing, maybe enough time, maybe I've just seen Ember Moon once so her winning meant less to me. 

But the opener was a perfectly paced hoss off, that actually made both guys look strong. Black/Dream was an absolute riot, simple idea, executed close to perfectly, all about one guy getting that respect. 

Wargames was chaotic, wild, crazy, and just a blast. Now, I don't have the attachment to Wargames a lot of you do, so far I've only seen the one with the Dungeon of Doom. But the new rules didn't really hurt it for me. A bit slow in starting but I loved it. 

Hope O'Reilly doesn't get into too much trouble for that unprotected chairshot he gave himself... 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

How has no one pointed out how awful Drake Youngers fake tan was?

The roof wah wah wah. Pinfalls isn't real war games, half a star deduction.

That was the most distracting part bar none.

[Red is Dead]

I hope Vince doesn't see the Lars Sullivan match. 

If he does, Sullivan will be Kozlov'd in six weeks.

Echoing the love for the Black Dream match. The camera work suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucked though. Was there a new guy doing the camera cuts? If so, why would they audition a new guy on a ppv? Enjoy your infamy...

Killian Dain doing da hit squad solo? More of that please.

[quackhell]

Dain looking up at a weasely scarred to death Cole cowering on top of the cage and yelling "I'm going to kill him!" before the coast to coast into the trashcan on O'Reilly was great. Dain was a blast that entire match.

[Kropotkin's Beard]

3 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

How has no one pointed out how awful Drake Youngers fake tan was?

He really was a disturbing shade of orange. I couldn't remember if he'd always looked like a well worn leather bag, but nope, I did check an old IWA MS DVD & he was at least a bit whiter. Hasn't he always been quite orange in his NXT referee run though? 

[Raziel]

The camera also missed what would've been a fantastic shot that while Dain was doing the Samoan Drop/Fallaway Slam spot, Akam was in the other ring doing the same, and they were talking shit to each other in a mirror spot.

[Craig H]

If there were a "director's cut" of the War Games main event where they took all of the footage they shot and pieced together a better filmed or presented version of it, how much would that increase everyone's enjoyment of the match?

Because at a certain point about 10 to 15 minutes in, I stopped being nauseated by the camera work and almost ignored it altogether until a spot was missed. I already love the match, but if I could watch it without feeling sick and without missing any spots, man, that might be my WWE match of the year.

Going forward, I think they should do War Games again when necessary. I would just coach the wrestlers on using both rings more because if I had a complaint regarding what actually went on in the rings it would be that for 80% of the match everyone was in the same ring.

[MORELOCK]

People keep saying that it's bullshit that the rules included pinfalls instead of being submission-only, but I haven't seen anyone make a compelling argument for *why* that matters. And I don't mean "because War Games!" Like, okay, it isn't JCP 1987 and that really sucks, but why did the story of the match really need to be told with a submission ending?

[Jiji]

The idea was you were locked in a cage with no escape with 5 other men you and your team were supposed to despise (this faded over time). The only way the match ends is if somebody does something so awful that you are compelled to surrender to save yourself, or better yet, a teammate. Big tough guys were forced into conceding to a blood rival. It was a sense of humiliation that a pinfall cannot capture. Both the cage and the submit/surrender aspects added to the feel of something dangerous and violent happening. This was a scramble cage match built around highspots that the production team sometimes captured and sometimes did not. It was fun but didn't have a wargames atmosphere. 

[Craig H]

Ultimately, I wound up not giving a shit about the match ending on a pinfall. You beat someone via pinfall then you beat them down enough to pin them. I think where a pinfall feels cheep or not in the tradition of War Games is that there are far too many memories of cheep pinfalls in 1,000s of other matches. Watching this War Games match, I didn't get the feeling that there would be a cheep pinfall. If someone got pinned, then it was because they were fucking dead.

Not to mention that this is not your typical War Games match and that caveat was given multiple times leading up to the match. So I'll say that given everything that went down in the match that WWE stuck the landing in putting on War Games. A lot of folks (not just here, but elsewhere) shit on the match leading up to it because there were 3 teams and the last time happened the match was utter garbage or that it could end via pinfall. What we got was quite good, at least in my opinion.

I'd be all about another WWE War Games match if this is what the bar is for that match. It's not JCP War Games or WCW War Games, but even still:

• The match was fucking brutal.
• Dudes still bled even if it was hardway bleeding.
• Once the AoP hit the ring then shit got crazy. Then when Sanity hit the ring things got fucking insane.
• We saw an armbar with a chain that would have made for an even cooler finish than the one we got.
• Everyone fought everyone.
• People flew from one ring to the other, whether that was by their own volition or because two giants hurled the guy like he was nothing.
• One wrestler dressed in something other than his usual attire to show that he was coming to fight.

You fix the filming of the match and the you fix the biggest problem with it. If spots weren't being missed, then parts of it were shot like how Kevin Dunn produces the Shield beatdowns.

[Sublime]

The match was about getting Undisputed Era over and they were not going to be able to get any member of Sanity or AOP to submit or surrender which would have left Roddy as the only one to submit, it made sense for the purpose of the match to have it be able to end in a pinfall. I thought the War Games match was amazing, it was a spectacle, it was crazy, it was violent, it was prowrestling. The camera work wasn't great but the match was. 

Glad Almas won Drew is a great worker but has been bland as a face, I'd like to see him lose a rematch and then snap and go heel. The match was really good too.

The women's match was good not great, too much of the two people fight while the other two lay outside. Ember was my last choice as winner but if they didn't do it now she'd be totally Lugered but in doing so they may have Lugered Nikki which is a shame. Cross as champ would have been good and it would have been nice to go from all powerful doesn't play by face/heel dynamics cause she's so good Asuka to doesn't play by face/heel dynamics cause she's just insane Cross. 

VALVETEEN DREAM/Black was amazing. Dream should be a star for years but how much can we really trust WWE creative to go right with him? But as of right now when he's in NXT he is going to be over huge. He gets it and he has IT. I hope he can achieve to his potential.

Lars/Ohno was fun. I hope Ohno gets to be featured more as a player and not just a guy putting people over. I'm glad he's getting paid without having to fly around the world and put less stress on his body at this point in his career but I still really like watching him work. Vince is going to over push Lars too soon for sure the guy is a perfect prowrestling freak but I don't know if he has what Braun has to get completely over with the crowd.

[MORELOCK]

27 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

The idea was you were locked in a cage with no escape with 5 other men you and your team were supposed to despise (this faded over time). The only way the match ends is if somebody does something so awful that you are compelled to surrender to save yourself, or better yet, a teammate. Big tough guys were forced into conceding to a blood rival. It was a sense of humiliation that a pinfall cannot capture. Both the cage and the submit/surrender aspects added to the feel of something dangerous and violent happening. This was a scramble cage match built around highspots that the production team sometimes captured and sometimes did not. It was fun but didn't have a wargames atmosphere. 

That's fair. I think a lot of the Big Annual Events lose their novelty once they are rolled out because it's the right time of the year rather than a big ending to a feud - I don't think this match was any less compelling than, say, the War Games in 1993. The Cell matches are another good example of that. I just don't think it's necessarily fair to shit on the match because it isn't on the blood-feud level of the ones that the Horsemen worked in the 80's (though I know you weren't the one doing the shitting).

[mattdangerously]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

If there were a "director's cut" of the War Games main event where they took all of the footage they shot and pieced together a better filmed or presented version of it, how much would that increase everyone's enjoyment of the match?

Yeah, the live crowd loved the match.  I haven't gone back to watch it on the Network, but if people are hating it, I can only think the camera work must have been horrid, because it was a blast to watch in the building.

[CSC]

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

If there were a "director's cut" of the War Games main event where they took all of the footage they shot and pieced together a better filmed or presented version of it, how much would that increase everyone's enjoyment of the match?

 

It doesn't even need to be a directors cut - just give me an "All-22" view of both cages from the hardcam and I'd be happy.  

I feel like maybe the doctors trying to stuff Wolfe's brains back into his head had something to do with the overly long one-ring segment.  That was the only time I really felt like they weren't using both rings.  

[cubbymark]

The other part about the pinfall rules that kind of kills it is that invariably it was a triple threat cage match. If the idea is to prove total superiority, there should be one "survivor" since it fell on Survivor Series Weekend, not first team to score a pin wins.

[Goodear]

We may also consider that submissions have become so much more commonplace in today's day and age.  Submissions don't have the same stigma now as it did in the late 80's when matches ending on a submission between two named talents was a giant deal.  

Also with three teams over two, that's two people having to hold off 5 other dudes rather than an even distribution of people holding on and trying to make the save.  Assuming you go for the dramatic submission rather than a snap tap out, its much more time consuming than a 3 count.  It probably wouldn't have been so weak if Adam Cole had a finish worth having.

Can NXT also put a cap on strike finishers?  That's enough NXT.  Not everyone can be a knock out artist.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

8 hours ago, Kropotkin's Beard said:

He really was a disturbing shade of orange. I couldn't remember if he'd always looked like a well worn leather bag, but nope, I did check an old IWA MS DVD & he was at least a bit whiter. Hasn't he always been quite orange in his NXT referee run though? 

More that he didn't apply it evenly, his undercut looked white as fuck and the rest Taz-like.

[Pete]

Everyone is sleeping on Killian hitting the Van DAMOnator. (See what I did there?) 

That was the best Cage of Death ever. With better camerawork it would be one of the best gimmick matches in years... visually violent and insane with a tasteful amount of blood, but still pretty safe in the long run. 

[Go2Sleep]

I thought this show was really good with every match meeting or exceeding expectations.

I liked what I saw from Lars selling towards the end of the match. In retrospect, this match was kind of a poor man's Brock/AJ. Lars looked like a beast, and Ohno threw enough good offense at him to make him look human, but good by overcoming it.

Dream looked good hanging with Black in a break-out showing for him.

The women's match was pretty average and it highlighted that this class of women is well behind Asuka and the 4HW, but that's been obvious for a while. Not sure what they were thinking having Asuka visibly hammer that point home by being there for the celebration though.

Almas/McIntyre was great as expected. Would anyone object to Almas as WWE/NXT MVP right now?

Wargames' only problem was being called Wargames. It was a fine WWE-style garbage match where everyone got a moment or two to shine.

[MORELOCK]

7 hours ago, L_W_P said:

Does Ohno win with an elbow or a boot?

 

We'll let you know if he ever wins.

 

30 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

Almas/McIntyre was great as expected. Would anyone object to Almas as WWE/NXT MVP right now?

 

I'm betting that @Brian Fowler would strongly object but will allow him to articulate his reasons.

[Brian Fowler]

Before I strongly object, let me give credit where it's due: the storyline with Vega has actually been really good. The matches haven't, but the story is.

Beyond that... Yeah, he's easily my least favorite featured wrestler in NXT. His offense looks like shit, especially when he was trying to do it Drew Saturday and literally wasn't tall enough to even get Drew into position. I know I'm in a distinct minority, and I know @RIPPA is gonna yell at me, but I feel like I'm the one sane man in an asylum where everyone else is praising an obviously terrible wrestler.

Plus Bobby Roode had literally half of my current 2017 WWE top ten matches, and my two favorite worldwide* matches this year, and is so obviously the MVP I don't even see why we're having a discussion on it.

 

*Which basically means WWE, ROH, the last few months of Impact, and some New Japan.

[odessasteps]

I would say your Lucha bias pretty much means taking your opinion here with a large grain of salt.