Brian Fowler Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 And we somehow came back around to the original point after all the goalpost shifting. The claim that he doesn't put people over on TV is simply absurd. He puts people over every time he does a program in the last like six years. I mean, for fuck's sake, the main event Sunday was literally all about Braun. He eliminated 40% of the entire team, and then effortlessly beat down a fourteen time world champion who had launched a sneak attack on him. "That main event was terrible, they need to build younger stars" makes no sense when the entire match was about building up the youngest guy in the match who was also the only guy in it that has never been a world champion. 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 At this point, I'm not convinced we aren't so deep in the Matrix that HHH "puts people over" for his own self-fellating impression that all anyone will talk about is how he so graciously puts people over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 4 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: And we somehow came back around to the original point after all the goalpost shifting. The claim that he doesn't put people over on TV is simply absurd. He puts people over every time he does a program in the last like six years. I mean, for fuck's sake, the main event Sunday was literally all about Braun. He eliminated 40% of the entire team, and then effortlessly beat down a fourteen time world champion who had launched a sneak attack on him. "That main event was terrible, they need to build younger stars" makes no sense when the entire match was about building up the youngest guy in the match who was also the only guy in it that has never been a world champion. Fowler, I always appreciate your opinions, and they are often good, but go watch the god damned Runaways show so someone else on this board will talk to me about it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 7 minutes ago, El Dragon said: Fowler, I always appreciate your opinions, and they are often good, but go watch the god damned Runaways show so someone else on this board will talk to me about it. I don’t even have a network account. Why do you think I have access to Hulu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Just now, Matt D said: I don’t even have a network account. Why do you think I have access to Hulu? I mean, I'd be a dick for suggesting someone pay money they can't afford to just to watch a TV show so we can discuss it.... But I've never really been a good person so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 7 hours ago, evilwaldo said: It is mostly Steph and HHH which explains why Vince continually put others over and got beat up during the Attitude Era and Steph and HHH put nobody over in this era and never get the short end of the stick. HHH put over Reigns and Rollins at WM and let Braun humiliate him Sunday. If he were in charge alone, the TV would be much better. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, Matt D said: I don’t even have a network account. Why do you think I have access to Hulu? You have access to Hulu, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Apparently, I have access to Hulu. Back to wrestling, and to what Victor just said, when's the last time Hunter really let someone stooge him like that? It's been done since Batista in 04 right? I don't remember too many times though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beech27 Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Can’t think of anyone. Punk got to make fun of his movie... career... but lost the match. He essentially turned henchman for Bryan, losing an undercard match to set up the main, but ultimately real life sorta put The Authority over. Rollins and Reigns both beat him, but he demolished them a few times first. Ironically, the closest answer might be Sting, whom he gawked at for a half hour before getting dumped, then sold as a terrrfying specter for much of the build. But, we know how that ended up. So I’d say he’s sold for Braun—so far—more than anyone, even during his “put over” years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man Known as Dan Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Did... did Vicator just jedi mind trick Matt? Teach me your ways, space wizard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 45 minutes ago, nate said: At this point, I'm not convinced we aren't so deep in the Matrix that HHH "puts people over" for his own self-fellating impression that all anyone will talk about is how he so graciously puts people over. Take off your tinfoil hat. Jesus. This idea that you and evilwaldo share is completely absurd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 3 hours ago, evilwaldo said: Giving flowers is one thing. Giving them an opportunity at the brass ring and main eventing is another. One is a photo op. The other is holding down talent. Here are your flowers Bayley. In six months, we are going to turn your character heel instead of pushing you to the moon. The Bayley brand that we can push to Disney and Nick? That will not get you over here. You need to be this heel or a tweener heel because all of the women are pretty much in the same boat of stale characters. Well lets deal with the fact the NXT character sucked. Well sucked is the wrong word, it was very limited. Even little girls do not want some huggin doofus for a hero. In fact I think the biggest problem with Bayley is both her and WWE's complete unwillingness to let the character grow and evolve. Instead she cuts a promo saying she wants to put smiles on faces and not welts on people. Now this is a kind sentiment in real life. But that is a lame as shit pro wrestler. That was back in the summer and in November, Bayley is in the same stupid place with the same lame character. The idea her character had this great crossover appeal is delusional. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Victator said: Well lets deal with the fact the NXT character sucked. Well sucked is the wrong word, it was very limited. Even little girls do not want some huggin doofus for a hero. In fact I think the biggest problem with Bayley is both her and WWE's complete unwillingness to let the character grow and evolve. Instead she cuts a promo saying she wants to put smiles on faces and not welts on people. Now this is a kind sentiment in real life. But that is a lame as shit pro wrestler. That was back in the summer and in November, Bayley is in the same stupid place with the same lame character. The idea her character had this great crossover appeal is delusional. I think most of us said that she could have drawn as a touring act in NXT for years, maybe, but that she'd die of overexposure and them not being and good at booking babyfaces in he 10s at the very least on the main roster. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 With Braun its not even that Hunter got beat up. Braun completely emasculated him. About the only thing you can say about the Reigns and Rollins feud is they produced shitty matches. I know some people think HHH was sandbagging Reigns. Put him over in a way to say "well I tried." but not really try. But Rollins is one of HHH's guys. It was a crummy match but not for lack of trying. The problem of part timers taking over at Mania is a much deeper problem than HHH. With the way they run their TV, you really can't just throw anyone in the HHH spot. There are a small handful of full timers who can credibly main event WM now. Which does go to Vince and yes HHH. But its not something I think is happening intentionally. This is not 2003 Hunter or 2007 HHH pinning the tag team champions alone.. He is closer to Noah era Misawa trying to get anyone els eover. I don't think he particularly enjoys performing now. 6 minutes ago, Matt D said: I think most of us said that she could have drawn as a touring act in NXT for years, maybe, but that she'd die of overexposure and them not being and good at booking babyfaces in he 10s at the very least on the main roster. The character is very similar to Eugene or Norman The Lunatic. When it should be 88 Rick Steiner. As a touring act it can work, but on a larger stage it is death and she needs to evolve. Because right now she is just canon fodder for whoever the champion is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nate Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, Craig H said: Take off your tinfoil hat. Jesus. This idea that you and evilwaldo share is completely absurd. Aw, you thought I was being serious. C'mon, surely you saw that I wasn't being serious, 270? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 On 11/19/2017 at 9:56 PM, Edwin said: What’s the general opinion on Jimmy Garvin? I always thought he sucked, but the majority of my opinion on him is based on his run as a WCW Freebird with Hayes which was awful. I am currently watching Starrcade 86 and saw his match with Brad Armstrong and it was awful imo. He did get a ton of heat after the time limit expired, so I’ll give him that. Also Héctor Guerrero and Baron von Raschke vs. Shaska Whatley and the Barbarian? Those are some bizarre pairings. Jimmy Garvin is a southern treasure. His bit with David Von Erich is one of the greatest tales in wrestling history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I think the decision to put over all of HHH's good management and hiring decisions is very intentional, but not in the way people here are saying. WWE is a publicly traded company, and the market only believes that Vince is capable of steering this ship. Whenever there have been hints of Vince not doing that any longer the stock starts to tank. Whenever you see things out there hyping up the things Steph and Hunter are doing behind the scenes and what have you it is not done for their egos, it is done so that when in the not too distant future Vince legit has to step down and they take over the company doesn't lose 20% of its value overnight. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 5 hours ago, evilwaldo said: Vince always put talent over to make them stars. HHH and Steph never let that happen. Batista says "hi." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Call me crazy but I always felt Hunter showing up on NXT shows was for the added star power of the show. If hall of famers like Hunter are invested and in attendance then something big must be going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Also, WWE at one point decided brand over individual. This might have been right around the time of Lesnar leaving. Of course John Cena would rise above the brand itself but there was an idea floating around that management didn't feel like they had to make the next Austin or Rock anymore. After this didn't work out, they went all in with Cena. Now they are going all in with Reigns who may or may not be the right guy. There's been a lot of shitty decisions that have led to the point where only the part timers are credible enough to be relied on to sell tickets. But the fans are also part of the bigger issue. You look at WrestleMania in Dallas and the tickets were selling slowly. That is until Shane vs. Undertaker in a Hell in a Cell was announced. Fans bought into the old guys. Then you look at the USA network. People say "ah fuck, why are Hunter and Steph on TV". Because USA says that ratings are better when they are on TV. It's easy to point to Hunter and say "oh, what an asshole" but what is he really responsible for? He runs developmental. He signs talent. He runs NXT. He's signed literally everyone in the world. Anyone who is good. The NXT program is booked like an 80's territory and makes for fantastic television. Once every few months they put on a big PPV show that leaves the audiences and the viewers satisfied. There are real stories and real payoffs. What he doesn't do is write for RAW or SDL. What he doesn't do is have the final say in what makes TV on USA. Think about that next time you want to rage. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 15 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Now they are going all in with Reigns who may or may not be the right guy. He is on his third or fourth chance, I think it is safe to say he is not. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzil Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Steve Austin talks about Wargames 92 on his latest podcast and he's not very impressed. "3 stars at best" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 Oh I expect the board to implode within the next few hours once all the oldheads see that. That’s tantamount to sacrilege ‘round these parts. I never had an opinion on early 90s WCW until I posted here, decided to check some stuff out because everyone is always talking about Meng and War Games and SOUTHERN ‘RASSLIN and quickly came to the opinion that it was just people watching with rose colored glasses on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 War Games '92 is a legit top twenty-five greatest matches I've ever seen. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted November 22, 2017 Share Posted November 22, 2017 I liked it a decent bit when I watched it earlier, but didn't come out thinking it was more than pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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