Survivor Series XXX

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 hour ago, RIPPA said:

 

I like Sami naively believing Stephanie and accepting her apology because he genuinely is a good guy and wants to see the good in people. Meanwhile, KO knows Stephanie is a McMahon, and thus will always be a lying, manipulative piece of shit no matter what comes out of her mouth. 

On a side note, Owens and Zayn need a good portmanteau like their buddies El Generico and Kevin Steen, Steenerico.

[Firebreaker Chip]

The five man booth was predictably shambolic, with Byron mandated to be all pissily partisan for Smackdown but just getting relentlessly clowned by everyone else for it and YBT barely present. I thought within the constraints of that Graves was exceptional, especially during the Lesnar-Styles match. Just consistently punchy, relevant, never bogged-down in too much WWE Automaton speak.  "The house that AJ Styles built is merely a zoning infraction in Suplex City" felt like it might have been a Heyman donation.

It's nice to get an overdue long Lesnar match where he actually shows how good he is at selling. Always been a big fan of his gutting-it-out one-legged hopping F5.

Bar-Usos was rock solid, obviously wasn't intended to steal the show or even be the best regular tag on the card but both teams can do this stuff in their sleep. I popped for the Uso tope-tag.

The main did a great job of exploiting the sheer amount of main event star-power and fresh matchups in the ring in the first ten minutes, but the most interesting Smackdown guys were eliminated first, and the story they were ultimately working to was pretty flat. The Zayn/Owens run-in felt irrelevant. His absurdly easy running off of them aside, it felt like Shane was actually more appropriately booked to be a non-wrestler with more guts than brains in this one, but it doesn't mean I particularly want to see a finish with him as the only one left while the other team squabble over pinning his corpse.

There will no doubt be many ongoing overwrought storyline repercussions for Smackdown losing 4-3 in a series of matches that have no actual material impact on anything whatsoever at this, The One Time Of The Year When Raw and Smackdown Co-

[RIPPA]

7 hours ago, Casey said:

At this point, if anyone but Braun Strowman wins the Royal Rumble then it'll be a fuck up on a massive scale. It's going to be 2014/2015 levels of heat if he doesn't, especially if Reigns wins like we're all thinking. He's so beyond ready that it's not even funny and the crowd is super behind him. If they wait another year, they're going to have another Reigns situation on their hands, where they pull the trigger but the fans have moved on.

Since it appears Elimination Chamber is a RAW PPV - that is most likely where Reigns is getting the win to get the match against Brock

And that would mean Smackdown is winning the Rumble

[Craig H]

Boy, I really liked everything in the main event until Angle entered the ring. From that point on it was just a slow moving trainwreck. It's been a long time since I've seen that much convoluted bullshit shoved into a match. If it wasn't that, then it was teammates disappearing for long lengths of the match, no one using a fucking a tag rope, overdoing the guy on the apron angrily slapping the legal man to tag himself in, the pointless insertion of John Cena, Angle and HHH looking their age and moving around about 10 years older than that, and the overly contrived finish. All the joy I felt for the opening of the match and matchups that we legit haven't seen before was just sucked right out of the match.

The rest of the show was largely whatever. The opener was pretty good, but I prefer the Shield vs Wyatt Family matches more. Brock vs AJ was outstanding. For all of Brock's post-WM matches, this was the best, slightly edging out Brock vs Joe just because I bought the finish in Brock vs AJ more than Brock vs Joe. It's been a long time since I felt legit concerned for another wrestler's health during a regular match. Multiple times I felt like I was watching Apollo vs Drago. Props to Brock and AJ for the story they told, making AJ's comeback look believable, making AJ look strong for hanging in there as long as he did, and having Brock believably escape with a pin and AJ escape with his life.

[TheVileOne]

Has Brock ever used the Brock Lock again since he came back?  I think it'd be neat if he busted out again at some point.

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

It says Kill 'Em All, as in Metallica's first album. I don't think a lower back tattoo that says Kill 'Em All qualifies as a tramp stamp, especially on someone like Brock. If it said Kill My Anus, I'd call it a tramp stamp, just not anywhere where there is any chance Lesnar could hear me.

Metal Up Your Ass ; )

[The Natural]

26 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Has Brock ever used the Brock Lock again since he came back?  I think it'd be neat if he busted out again at some point.

No I don't think he has. Shame, looks hurty.

[nate]

Wasn't the Brock Lock, the Stretch Muffler?

[Dolfan in NYC]

I'd need to re-watch the match, but I believe he busted it out against Punk at SummerSlam '13

[Sublime]

Loved New Day/Shield and I actually thought New Day might get the win once or twice which means they pulled me in really well. It wasn't up to the Wyatt/Shield matches but it still might be one of my top 25 main roster matches of the year. New Day are great and I have been liking the booking of Big E recently, he's getting treated like a big deal and a difference maker in matches. That's a good sign. The Shield work so well as a group that it sucks knowing they will split again and the parts are so much less than the whole, great group, good singles. 

Women's 5on5 match was ok. Never got a flow going to it and the quick eliminations were lame. Lana should have at least held onto Nia's leg during the count out, then Nia could have killed her dead. Bayley being first out on RAW's side was sad and made my step daughter extremely angry. Good booking on Asuka getting the last three eliminations.

Corbin/Miz was surprisingly good. Corbin was a great asshole and it was nice that Miz and the Miztrouage didn't play faces too much as they could have with Corbin's messing with Mayrse and such. Nice solid win for Corbin to to pin the Miz. Say what you want about the Miz but he gets people over.

Bar/Usos was a fun solid tag match that I greatly enjoyed but didn't expect anything else from the two teams. Cesaro saving Sheamus and eating the double super kicks was a good moment, the tope tag was a wonderful spot and nice to see Usos going over to avenge their loss from last years 10on10 Survivor Series match.

Charlotte/Alexa was fine but I never found it to be really good. It was sloppy at points and they tried to book to make sense for Alexa to control most of the match but idk I didn't buy it that much.

Brock/AJ was fantastic and def. match of the night, the end was pretty much a forgone conclusion with Raw needing to tie up the series but holy cow was that great match. AJ is such a bump freak and Brock was motivated, I wonder if Heyman got him pumped up to work with AJ cause this was a Brock I'd enjoy watching more often not the one that's been around the past few years. The escape from the calf crusher looked brutal. Brock's selling is great cause I really wondered if he's leg was legit hurt (I hope it's not legit hurt man that would suck if they've built him up for roman or hopefully BRAUUUN only to have him on the shelf).

The main I can't comment on since I turned it off after Finn was eliminated though mostly stopped paying attention once Joe was eliminated cause a that point I knew for sure it was all leading to MCMAHONMANIA part 15321 glad to hear BRAUN got to stand tall though.

[Firebreaker Chip]

There was a really noticeable lack of dramatic tension after H turned on Angle, because nobody at all looked at that scene and thought that Shane wasn't getting pedigreed anyway

Just bemused silence as everyone in the crowd tried to figure out if anything interesting at all could happen as a result of it

 

[nate]

7 minutes ago, Firebreaker Chip said:

There was a really noticeable lack of dramatic tension after H turned on Angle, because nobody at all looked at that scene and thought that Shane wasn't getting pedigreed anyway

Just bemused silence as everyone in the crowd tried to figure out if anything interesting at all could happen as a result of it

 

During that dead-ass time between the first pedigree and the second, me and the pals were considering that H's would take off his Raw shirt to reveal a Smackdown shirt ... but then we got into this whole discussion about how that would work logistically.  We were so involved in THAT discussion we missed the pedigree to Shane and then segued into the way Braun looked for all the world like my Boston terrier looks when you explain the machinations of the geopolitical spectrum to him.

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, nate said:

Wasn't the Brock Lock, the Stretch Muffler?

Stretch Muffler with Brock sitting on the back. 

I can't post the debut one on Chris Benoit for obvious reasons.

 

 

[S.K.o.S.]

3 hours ago, Matt D said:

Styles isn't a Del Rio or Rusev or Harper. He's established. He's a force. The fans knew he was going to be able to make a comeback somehow. He's also not a Cena or a Reigns, though. Whatever comeback he made certainly wasn't going to be a superman one. So as Brock was compellingly battering him up and down (though never escalating into things that should be in a later act, because Brock's stuff is so legitimate and because Styles' bumping and selling is so good), there was a buzz of intrigue on just how Styles could possibly battle back.

Just a note on this point - I only watch WWE ppvs, not the weekly tv, but I feel like I have a good handle on Styles' spot in the company.  However as Brock stayed in full control of the match for so long, I began to honestly believe that he could completely squash Styles, like he could win without Styles getting any offense at all.  Part of this was because of the way the card was laid out - Brock was already the favorite going in, but then on top of that, we "knew" that Brock had to win so that the main event would be the deciding match in the whole Raw-Smackdown thing.

I don't know how many other people felt that way.  Might have been just me.  It's clearly a better match for Styles having gotten that run on offense.  But it might be an even better match the more that one doubts that Styles can even get it at all (up to a point, as you still want it to be believable when it happens).

Excellent writeup obv.

[Matt D]

11 minutes ago, S.K.o.S. said:

Just a note on this point - I only watch WWE ppvs, not the weekly tv, but I feel like I have a good handle on Styles' spot in the company.  However as Brock stayed in full control of the match for so long, I began to honestly believe that he could completely squash Styles, like he could win without Styles getting any offense at all.  Part of this was because of the way the card was laid out - Brock was already the favorite going in, but then on top of that, we "knew" that Brock had to win so that the main event would be the deciding match in the whole Raw-Smackdown thing.

I don't know how many other people felt that way.  Might have been just me.  It's clearly a better match for Styles having gotten that run on offense.  But it might be an even better match the more that one doubts that Styles can even get it at all (up to a point, as you still want it to be believable when it happens).

Excellent writeup obv.

That's a fair point. That said, we've seen those house show matches where guys get at least a smidgen of offense on Brock (through distraction or ambush or interference). That combined with the Champion vs Champion element and the fact they obviously shifted the match TO this (and not primarily to protect Jinder, but instead as a quasi dream match sort of draw for the PPV unless we're way off base), made me pretty sure he'd be coming back even if it'd just be to get quickly devoured (which it wasn't). To me, it was all about HOW he was going to come back. That's where the intrigue was. That you weren't sure, however, and that they made you believe, well, that's just all the better, right? I know it's not QUITE the same as believing two guys hate each other, but how often do we believe in anything in 2017, right? How cool is it that you got to believe something last night and then be proven wrong in the best way? That's about as good as wrestling gets in this day and age.

[Casey]

3 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Since it appears Elimination Chamber is a RAW PPV - that is most likely where Reigns is getting the win to get the match against Brock

And that would mean Smackdown is winning the Rumble

Ah, so John Cena wins the Rumble and challenges AJ or Mahal at 'Mania. That'll be worse than Randy Orton winning it for Smackdown last year and facing Bray Wyatt in that horrible match.

[sevendaughters]

Brand battles are utterly pathetic and there is no just drama inherent in them. Partly because I watch neither RAW nor Smackdown so I have absolutely no dog in the fight - and mostly because it is complete false metal.

On top of that having each brand's actual real life figureheads ultimately go over (the standings of HHH, Shane, and Stephanie ultimately all rose) is just completely and utterly depressing. If you're going to do the phony brand rivalry, take a leaf out of nWo or even the original Nexus storyline where it did at least for some amount of time look like these cool upstarts are going to smash the heads of the nerds in charge.

I watched it because I was having trouble sleeping but by the end I was just regretting the whole 'being into wrestling' thing. Is it always this interminable and joyless? Or am I just as far away from WWE as it is possible to be? Honestly guys I sit down and think "I hope this is going to be good" rather than "please let this be bad so I can moan about it". Check my other posts - I am a total enthusiast.

And there were some fine matches in the middle but we were told, basically, that they don't really matter. All they were were simple McGuffins to get you to the MAIN EVENT A BATTLE FOR BRAND SUPREMACY WITH THE SCORES TIED.

Even worse - they slightly wrecked the Smackdown world title just for this expressly forgettable and meaningless storyline aspect.

No historic cool person ever cared about brands. Full stop. Al Pacino in The Godfather did it for family. Captain Ahab did it because he was a delusional wreck. Winston Smith in 1984 did it for love. Macbeth for ambition, and Macduff for honour and vengeance. So why did Shinsuke Nakamura fight for Smackdown and prat around like an indy schlub in a blue vest? IT GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING WE'VE EVER LEARNED.

Everything about the main event was miserable. I didn't even enjoy the apparently strong opening where a bunch of guys just went and got their shit in without having any kind of match. These WWE big main events that are just a load of spots while Vince yells DON'T FORGET - HE'S THE MODERN DAY MAHARAJ! in some slimy suited shit's ear are the very dictionary definition of style over substance.

When I last watched regularly The Shield were - inasmuch as it is possible to be - absolutely cool dominant guys. Here, with their half-branded shirts, they looked like a bunch of hack phonies. The work in that match was fine but Jesus I just didn't care. I'd rather The Shield did a 'pissing on the legacy' gimmick (not pissing on Legacy, that would be poor) than this total faking of the funk.

Brock-AJ was good. Can't fault Styles' ethic and approach. He makes it feel real and good. I think Brock's general standing is falling and it should be approaching time where someone beats him clean for the rub.

Owens/Zayn vs. Fashion Police was a house show match featuring two guys made to look like NEEEEEEEEEERDS in the main event by SHANE!
10-woman was garbage.
Corbin-Miz was dreadful.
Usos-Bar was solid, better than a lot you'll get in the NJPW Tag League (maybe wrestling in the last 6 weeks of the year sucks, idk)
Flair-Bliss was so goddamn long.

I'm sorry, this is probably not what a lot of you guys want to read and if you enjoyed the show then I'm honestly glad. I just can't.

[S.K.o.S.]

18 minutes ago, Matt D said:

That you weren't sure, however, and that they made you believe, well, that's just all the better, right? I know it's not QUITE the same as believing two guys hate each other, but how often do we believe in anything in 2017, right? How cool is it that you got to believe something last night and then be proven wrong in the best way? That's about as good as wrestling gets in this day and age.

Yep, totally agree.

And you also make a good point about them shifting the match off Jinder for a reason.  I wasn't thinking about that at all.

[Beech27]

19 minutes ago, Matt D said:

That you weren't sure, however, and that they made you believe, well, that's just all the better, right? I know it's not QUITE the same as believing two guys hate each other, but how often do we believe in anything in 2017, right? How cool is it that you got to believe something last night and then be proven wrong in the best way? That's about as good as wrestling gets in this day and age.

The degree to which Brock and AJ got me--and I think basically everyone watching--to suspend disbelief was really incredible. I mean, it's not just that we all basically knew Brock was winning, we could have called the spot he was going to win with. The ingredients were there for another ho-hum, "any fan could have blocked that entire sequence" Brock finish (and match).

But over the course of the match, AJ established that his springboard offense worked, and that he couldn't hit the Clash. So he had to attempt his springboard super-finish, the move that let him not just "beat up John Cena", but beat him. The totality of the work roped you in, but those details then made the finish inevitable within that fiction, which basically negated any cynical predictions regarding how the match had to end. Brock caught AJ, not because of any meta-fictional mandates, not because it was a neat spot that kinda-sorta protected the WWE champ, but because the match funneled everything to that moment.

Styles is just really good at things like that. Remember when he faked Orton out on the springboard attempt, getting Randy to RKO the space in to which we all "knew" Styles was about to leap?

[evilwaldo]

So I guess we get a 30 minute promo from Steph tonight where she cries victim so that she can put herself and HHH over the talent once again.  

*YAWN*

Nice to know they are still putting themselves over every chance they get rather than build new stars.  This should empty out what remain of the fans from the arenas.

 

20 minutes ago, sevendaughters said:

Brand battles are utterly pathetic and there is no just drama inherent in them. Partly because I watch neither RAW nor Smackdown so I have absolutely no dog in the fight - and mostly because it is complete false metal.

On top of that having each brand's actual real life figureheads ultimately go over (the standings of HHH, Shane, and Stephanie ultimately all rose) is just completely and utterly depressing. If you're going to do the phony brand rivalry, take a leaf out of nWo or even the original Nexus storyline where it did at least for some amount of time look like these cool upstarts are going to smash the heads of the nerds in charge.

 

In the voice of Stephanie:  You apparently do not understand social media.  Crowd sizes, wins and losses, and titles are all meaningless.  What counts is engagement and brand battles will drive engagement.  Coke vs Pepsi on a different level.  Hold on, I don't care about a wrestlers engagement.  Punish him for getting over on social media when I did not tell him to get over.  Ok, I am back.  I am going to do a thirty minute promo putting over myself and HHH to show people how to grab he brass ring.

 

[John from Cincinnati]

So Shane's jumped off the cell twice, had his bell rung during last year's Survivor Series match, and hasn't won a single bout since his return. I know none of this matters, but at what point does his kayfabe family stage an intervention? 

[caley]

A question I had while watching one of those PPV 30 minute recap videos on Youtube: are we, the WWE universe, supposed to kayfabe know that Triple H is Vice-President of Talent of WWE or is he supposed to just be an ex wrestler who hangs out backstage and occasionally comes out?  Like, during Raw they show recap videos of him at WWE events/promotions/appearances and he's clearly show as a member of the office, but when he comes out to the ring, are we supposed to know that?  

Because if he is kayfabe-wise, Vice-President of Talent, and comes out to put one brand over another, then that's a really weird move, considering he's technically in charge of both brands.  It would be like Roger Goodell (If he had been a very good football player at one point) playing for the Patriots in the Super Bowl to ensure their victory over an NFC team.  Well, actually, since Survivor Series means nothing, it would be more like Goodell suiting up for the AFC in the Pro Bowl to make sure they beat the NFC in a game no one really cares about.  Look, I'm just saying it's weird, okay?

[Beech27]

They talked about Triple H bringing Nakamura and Roode to NXT while he was wrestling them, so they explicitly acknowledged his office work in that capacity last night.

It is weird, though, if you wonder why he ought to care about RAW. It only begins to make sense when you realize he doesn't, that he was just helping his wife get over on her brother--because while nothing is more important than ~brand supremacy~, McMahon family drama is the eternal exception to booking hierarchy.

[Craig H]

I think of HHH as having a similar role to the one Jesse Ventura had in the Running Man...

[Casey]

14 minutes ago, caley said:

A question I had while watching one of those PPV 30 minute recap videos on Youtube: are we, the WWE universe, supposed to kayfabe know that Triple H is Vice-President of Talent of WWE or is he supposed to just be an ex wrestler who hangs out backstage and occasionally comes out?  Like, during Raw they show recap videos of him at WWE events/promotions/appearances and he's clearly show as a member of the office, but when he comes out to the ring, are we supposed to know that?  

Because if he is kayfabe-wise, Vice-President of Talent, and comes out to put one brand over another, then that's a really weird move, considering he's technically in charge of both brands.  It would be like Roger Goodell (If he had been a very good football player at one point) playing for the Patriots in the Super Bowl to ensure their victory over an NFC team.  Well, actually, since Survivor Series means nothing, it would be more like Goodell suiting up for the AFC in the Pro Bowl to make sure they beat the NFC in a game no one really cares about.  Look, I'm just saying it's weird, okay?

Triple H has brand loyalty to whichever brand his wife runs. It's not that hard to connect the dots on that one.