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DANIEL BRYAN *IS* WRESTLING AGAIN


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21 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I was more disturbed by Bryan spouting all those quack theories on the pod than his possible return to the ring. 

Was he babbling stuff about autism, cancer, fibromyalgia, MS and other garbage?

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31 minutes ago, sevendaughters said:

the thing is EVERYONE is at this risk, everyone working today is at risk of CTE, be it in WWE or New Japan or the indies. it's just that Bryan has gone past some threshold indicative of what WWE are willing to risk in terms of their insurance indemnity. what steps do we want to see taken that would change this? i'm all for no stiff chairs shots or head-on-head butts, but eliminate bumps? nah. i like them, and wrestlers like them too.

hypocritical is too strong a word, I'm not here to fight and I'm not dying on the hill of 'you must support Danielson coming back to the ring', but i think you have to fully join the dots to other at-risk athletes (that is to say: ALL OF THEM) if you want to play the moral angle.

for me it's his - and all the other dudes who take bumps - fuckin' life man. sure it sucks for his kid if he ends up spannered but he's loaded and his wife understands the risks too and supports him. there are kids out there with both parents who have it a whole lot worse.

It's more of we've put him on a pedestal and don't want to see someone we enjoy royally fuck up his personal health for the sake of proving he can do something. I mean if he was having tremors and other weird shit and hiding them, I'd be scared what we don't actually know.

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37 minutes ago, sevendaughters said:

the thing is EVERYONE is at this risk, everyone working today is at risk of CTE, be it in WWE or New Japan or the indies. it's just that Bryan has gone past some threshold indicative of what WWE are willing to risk in terms of their insurance indemnity. what steps do we want to see taken that would change this? i'm all for no stiff chairs shots or head-on-head butts, but eliminate bumps? nah. i like them, and wrestlers like them too.

hypocritical is too strong a word, I'm not here to fight and I'm not dying on the hill of 'you must support Danielson coming back to the ring', but i think you have to fully join the dots to other at-risk athletes (that is to say: ALL OF THEM) if you want to play the moral angle.

for me it's his - and all the other dudes who take bumps - fuckin' life man. sure it sucks for his kid if he ends up spannered but he's loaded and his wife understands the risks too and supports him. there are kids out there with both parents who have it a whole lot worse.

The difference is that DB is not "at risk" - he is, by his own admission, absolutely suffering from brain damage right now. Not potentially later. Now.

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10 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

The difference is that DB is not "at risk" - he is, by his own admission, absolutely suffering from brain damage right now. Not potentially later. Now.

oh, I know, but I guarantee you'll have cheered the heck out of guys of yore who carried on without a doctor's advice, and that there'll be guys working now who are in the midst of it who have gone undetected as yet. i'm not arguing the potential severity or the current issue. by all means wish that Bryan wouldn't wrestle again, but by that extent you have to pretty much hope that no one will wrestle again - or do you wait until they get just a little bit brain damaged but not too much before moral discomfit?

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48 minutes ago, sevendaughters said:

by all means wish that Bryan wouldn't wrestle again, but by that extent you have to pretty much hope that no one will wrestle again

No, you don't. This is a giant leap that people are making to justify wanting to see Bryan in the ring again - which is fine, I'm not casting moral judgment on anyone. I'm not saying "everyone should be scared shitless like me or they are clearly a bad person." But there is a huge difference between "wrestling as a sport is inherently dangerous to everyone" and "Daniel Bryan had regular seizures." There is a reason to be fearful of him specifically getting in the ring and it doesn't have to imply that you should be as fearful of every wrestler getting in the ring.

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51 minutes ago, sevendaughters said:

oh, I know, but I guarantee you'll have cheered the heck out of guys of yore who carried on without a doctor's advice, and that there'll be guys working now who are in the midst of it who have gone undetected as yet. i'm not arguing the potential severity or the current issue. by all means wish that Bryan wouldn't wrestle again, but by that extent you have to pretty much hope that no one will wrestle again - or do you wait until they get just a little bit brain damaged but not too much before moral discomfit?

i agree. the reason why this debate is ongoing is Bryan keeps on pushing this narrative that he is fine, every doctor thinks he is fine and the WWE had to find a doctor who would not clear him.  and even the doctor who would not clear him had his facts wrong.  which if true would mean he was a quack. it's just one big conspiracy by the wwe to deprive bryan and the fans of what they want. so, the conversation becomes less about risk and more about reality. 

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39 minutes ago, JohnnyJ said:

i agree. the reason why this debate is ongoing is Bryan keeps on pushing this narrative that he is fine, every doctor thinks he is fine and the WWE had to find a doctor who would not clear him.  and even the doctor who would not clear him had his facts wrong.  which if true would mean he was a quack. it's just one big conspiracy by the wwe to deprive bryan and the fans of what they want. so, the conversation becomes less about risk and more about reality. 

The narrative gets quite a bit murky when we know about the many concussions he's had (and I'm sure there's many we don't)  And if he's gone on record saying he's had seizures and the like then doctors aside he shouldn't be going back in the ring.  The guy seems like he's really smart and in-tune with the world around him, but his obsession with coming back makes me question his logic on the situation.

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48 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

The guy seems like he's really smart and in-tune with the world around him, but his obsession with coming back makes me question his logic on the situation.

Read his book.  When it comes to performing in the ring, Bryan strikes me as anything but smart and in-tune.

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I was catching up on Meltzer's podcasts from the weekend and he mentioned a UFC fighter who was also diagnosed with a brain lesion, but who still fights.  Meltzer said, "and MMA is more dangerous."  Sorry, but no way.  A chance of getting knocked out once every few months vs taking concussive and subconcussive bumps in even as low as 60 matches a year (Bryan's proposed schedule)?  And then consider we have in Bryan a guy who, in his first matches back from neck and head issues, was doing headfirst topes and taking high angle back suplexes.  Sorry, that's a "no" for most wrestlers and a "fuck no" for DB.

The fact that the guy has admitted having multiple seizures has to outweigh any doctor's opinion, right?  I mean one seizure would scare the living shit out of me.  I can't comprehend what kind of person has at least four seizures and figures it's cool to get back into a doing the very thing that caused it in the first place.  I'd say CTE is already happening in this case.

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Just now, Technico Support said:

I was catching up on Meltzer's podcasts from the weekend and he mentioned a UFC fighter who was also diagnosed with a brain lesion, but who still fights.  Meltzer said, "and MMA is more dangerous."  Sorry, but no way.  A chance of getting knocked out once every few months vs taking concussive and subconcussive bumps in even as low as 60 matches a year (Bryan's proposed schedule)? 

You are aware that fighters don't simply sit around between fights, right?  Training and sparring can jar a brain too.

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The fact that the guy has admitted having multiple seizures has to outweigh any doctor's opinion, right?  I mean one seizure would scare the living shit out of me

Depends on the seizure.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ace said:

You are aware that fighters don't simply sit around between fights, right?  Training and sparring can jar a brain too.

Depends on the seizure.

 

Sure, but I'd still wager that wrestling is worse.

Not sure what kind of seizure qualifies as "eh, not bad," but that's not the kind that a dude with concussions in the double digits is having.

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There's no way pro-wrestling is worse on the ol' noggin than MMA or boxing. Repeated blows, even with training gloves and headgear on are going to add up. That's not to minimize the dangers of pro-wrestling but it's not even close in my mind. MMA fighters are also doing takedowns on hard mats on a consistent basis, which doesn't help. Even just the repeated collisions of practicing grappling can't be great when you look at how linemen in the NFL are usually the ones with the worst cases of CTE due to repetitious body contact. MMA Fighters and boxers put in hours in the gym on a daily basis, and while a lot of it is cardio and weight training there is a lot of grappling and striking training where the damage will add up over the years. Wrestlers train and top-end performers will work 5 or 6 days a week but it's not really comparable. Work days are what 10-15 minutes for most? 

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57 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

There's no way pro-wrestling is worse on the ol' noggin than MMA or boxing. Repeated blows, even with training gloves and headgear on are going to add up. That's not to minimize the dangers of pro-wrestling but it's not even close in my mind. MMA fighters are also doing takedowns on hard mats on a consistent basis, which doesn't help. Even just the repeated collisions of practicing grappling can't be great when you look at how linemen in the NFL are usually the ones with the worst cases of CTE due to repetitious body contact. MMA Fighters and boxers put in hours in the gym on a daily basis, and while a lot of it is cardio and weight training there is a lot of grappling and striking training where the damage will add up over the years. Wrestlers train and top-end performers will work 5 or 6 days a week but it's not really comparable. Work days are what 10-15 minutes for most? 

Wrestlers work 200+ dates a year. The cumulative effects of repeated non-concussive brain impacts are believed to be just as big of a contributing factor in CTE as actual concussions. Every flat back bump is going to be a non-concussive brain impact. I feel like wrestling is probably only rivaled by playing the line in football.

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36 minutes ago, Ryan said:

Quincy, MD was out that day. Its just when I hear "doctors" no one ever says if he's talking neurologists or his damn chiropractor.

I don't think he ever named them. But he said two different doctors cleared him, including one WWE agreed on. But a third doctor did not and WWE went by what that one said. 

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Not quite. WWE's doctor (Joseph Maroon) never cleared him in the first place. It wasn't until Danielson was told about the lesion by the final doctor that he finally decided to stop.

 

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18 hours ago, Ace said:

Most wrestlers do NOT work 200+ days a year. And Danielson's plan is to work a quarter of that schedule in the first place.

 

Raw is Friday - Monday plus PPVs.  That adds up to around 200.  But if you want to add in time off, maybe shows where guys promo but don't wrestle, etc., then, what, 150?  125?  How many dates would you say they are in the ring working?  Regardless, Bryan apparently wants 60 dates.  Until he shows otherwise, that's 60 dates of bad bumps, headfirst dives, and flying headbutts.  All on a guy with a diagnosed brain lesion, double digit concussions, and at least four admitted seizures.  Sounds like a wise choice.

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