Raw Is Bayley Booed in Bizarroland - 8/7/2017

[Victator]

Bayley using "Why are you booing?" as a heel catch phrase would be very effective. I knew seeing her in NXT this was not a long term gimmick. It is something you do for a year or two and then move on. In that it is very similar to Eugene. 

[JCM]

Bayley's character in NXT had an arc of going from naive fan who rarely won to confident ace of the women's division. She's had zero character development on Raw.

[Victator]

The best gimmicks need to be able to work in a vacuum. Kevin Sullivan had a story arc of going from All American Wrestler to Cult Leader. But the gimmick worked in other areas without knowing the back story. Even a kid is going to get tired of a hugging weirdo. 

[Curt McGirt]

7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Yeah, I did.

Sorry for unintentionally biting your joke man haha

[Spritenaut 32]

7 hours ago, Victator said:

Bayley using "Why are you booing?" as a heel catch phrase would be very effective. I knew seeing her in NXT this was not a long term gimmick. It is something you do for a year or two and then move on. In that it is very similar to Eugene. 

Nick Dinsmore was still doing the Eugene gimmick last fall (haven't seen his name in results since then).

[Spritenaut 32]

6 hours ago, Victator said:

Even a kid is going to get tired of a hugging weirdo. 

Leave Titus out of this!

 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Could Bayley end up being mentored by Rick Steiner?

Have her ditch the headband/scrunchie thing for the ear muffs, and start doing the dog bark, leading to a showdown with Titus Worldwide.

[username]

This Bayley thing at this point isn't as hard to figure out as you are all making it: she hasn't been very good and has been pushed both too hard and poorly.  The fact that it hasn't gone 100% off the rails is a tribute to enough people in the crowd having good memories of her doing better earlier in her career, but that'll only last so long.

She's probably miscast as an ace.  It is hard because the women's division is so small due to being split up between two shows, but she'd probably do better being goofy in the low to midcard.

[Victator]

1 hour ago, Horton Hears a Wooo!!! said:

Nick Dinsmore was still doing the Eugene gimmick last fall (haven't seen his name in results since then).

I meant in a major promotion. By 06 Eugene was just dying and they had no idea what to do. 

BTW here is my fantasy booking of how to fix Eugene. His Uncle Eric has been giving him medications for some imagined mental disorder. His pills are misplaced one day and he becomes a super evil wrestling machine. 

BTW I did steal that from an American Dad episode. 

[The Green Meanie]

28 minutes ago, Victator said:

BTW here is my fantasy booking of how to fix Eugene. His Uncle Eric has been giving him medications for some imagined mental disorder. His pills are misplaced one day and he becomes a super evil wrestling machine. 

BTW I did steal that from an American Dad episode. 

That's pretty much what they did with Festus/Luke Gallows and the SES.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

2 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Sorry for unintentionally biting your joke man haha

Apology accepted. Just don't become an intentional joke thief like Denis Leary or Carlos Mencia.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

Could Bayley end up being mentored by Rick Steiner?

Have her ditch the headband/scrunchie thing for the ear muffs, and start doing the dog bark, leading to a showdown with Titus Worldwide.

Bayley needs to be mentored by Scott Steiner.

[odessasteps]

Dressing like Midajah would certainly change Bailey's image. 

[Victator]

1 hour ago, The Green Meanie said:

That's pretty much what they did with Festus/Luke Gallows and the SES.

Hey it worked, though I would have liked it to have been more involved. 

Here I envision Regal telling Eugene he doesn't need chill pills from his uncle. Eric learns Eugene has not been taking his meds and is overcome with fear. 

[Eivion]

3 hours ago, username said:

This Bayley thing at this point isn't as hard to figure out as you are all making it: she hasn't been very good and has been pushed both too hard and poorly.  The fact that it hasn't gone 100% off the rails is a tribute to enough people in the crowd having good memories of her doing better earlier in her career, but that'll only last so long.

She's probably miscast as an ace.  It is hard because the women's division is so small due to being split up between two shows, but she'd probably do better being goofy in the low to midcard.

Except Bayley hasn't been an ace. Sasha was there helping during her feud with Charlotte, and by the time that was over Bayley was losing to Alexa. Bayley's push hasn't been hard at all. They debuted her to good fanfare and then had her doing jack and shit for the most part after it until the feud with Charlotte earlier this year. Charlotte was the ace then, and now Alexa is ace.

Way too many of you use shitty booking to try to confirm shit you dislike about a wrestler. Bayley has been screwed by shitty booking. Same with the rest of the women's roster that isn't named Alexa. Sasha has only been somewhat ok because she has the charisma to persevere and has had more moments where she at least was important due to the feud with Charlotte. Even that will only last so long

[joseph2112]

3 hours ago, Eivion said:

Except Bayley hasn't been an ace. Sasha was there helping during her feud with Charlotte, and by the time that was over Bayley was losing to Alexa. Bayley's push hasn't been hard at all. They debuted her to good fanfare and then had her doing jack and shit for the most part after it until the feud with Charlotte earlier this year. Charlotte was the ace then, and now Alexa is ace.

Way too many of you use shitty booking to try to confirm shit you dislike about a wrestler. Bayley has been screwed by shitty booking. Same with the rest of the women's roster that isn't named Alexa. Sasha has only been somewhat ok because she has the charisma to persevere and has had more moments where she at least was important due to the feud with Charlotte. Even that will only last so long

I agree and I don't see Bayley being pushed at all like a clean-cut babyface. Or maybe they are and they really don't know how and trying to think about it I can't really come up with a character like that they have ever booked. And I guess I mean clean-cut in the way of won't EVER cheat, won't use weapons, etc. Don't forget, Bayley

Asked for Singapore cane match.

Got Singapore cane match.

Was afraid to use Singapore cane.

Lost match.

I mean WTF. This is also in opposition when she found out that there was clearly shenanigans when she won the title and she gleefully said fuck it, I'm cool with that.

[MORELOCK]

3 hours ago, Eivion said:

Except Bayley hasn't been an ace. Sasha was there helping during her feud with Charlotte, and by the time that was over Bayley was losing to Alexa. Bayley's push hasn't been hard at all. They debuted her to good fanfare and then had her doing jack and shit for the most part after it until the feud with Charlotte earlier this year. Charlotte was the ace then, and now Alexa is ace.

Way too many of you use shitty booking to try to confirm shit you dislike about a wrestler. Bayley has been screwed by shitty booking. Same with the rest of the women's roster that isn't named Alexa. Sasha has only been somewhat ok because she has the charisma to persevere and has had more moments where she at least was important due to the feud with Charlotte. Even that will only last so long

 

Bayley was booked very, very strongly right up until Alexa showed up. She was immediately inserted into the title picture upon being called up (the triple threat at Clash Of Champions), got non-title wins over Charlotte in multiple throwaway RAW matches,  got to be the one to end Charlotte's PPV win streak, and walked out of Mania retaining the title in a 4-Way. You yourself admit that Sasha has been bulletproof due to her charisma, and the implication from that sentence is that Bayley *does not* have that charisma. And it shows. "Way too many of you" are too blinded by your love for her NXT run to admit that she got called up to the main roster and shit the bed with her promos and character work.

And it isn't that cornball face women can't get over in the current WWE environment, either - Naomi's cringeworthy "Feel The Glow" shit is keeping her over just fine.

[NikoBaltimore]

1 hour ago, MORELOCK said:

"Way too many of you" are too blinded by your love for her NXT run to admit that she got called up to the main roster and shit the bed with her promos and character work.

I'm still a Bayley fan but at least for me I'll admit you're right.  

Say what you will about her booking since being called up, but once she feuded with Alexa that was it for her.  She could have overcame losing the title, but once they built to the kendo stick match that was it.  The "This is your life" segment was retched, but all she had to be was an ass-kicking machine in the match.  Even if Bayley lost doing that would have helped her a lot in the eyes of the fans.  Instead what happened happened and I'm not certain she can overcome that.  Watching it live there were a good amount of Bayley fans and when she lost that waythere was a lot of confusion among them.  There's things she can definitely control (better promos and ring work) but the way they booked her isn't doing her any favors.  Hopefully while injured everybody can figure out how to rehab her and make this work.

[Victator]

When she did that "smiles on faces promos. You could hear everyone turn on her. Which is not her fault, that was the crap given to her.  

She is head and shoulders above everyone else as far as in ring work goes. But that character is death. 

[Eivion]

5 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

 

Bayley was booked very, very strongly right up until Alexa showed up. She was immediately inserted into the title picture upon being called up (the triple threat at Clash Of Champions), got non-title wins over Charlotte in multiple throwaway RAW matches,  got to be the one to end Charlotte's PPV win streak, and walked out of Mania retaining the title in a 4-Way. You yourself admit that Sasha has been bulletproof due to her charisma, and the implication from that sentence is that Bayley *does not* have that charisma. And it shows. "Way too many of you" are too blinded by your love for her NXT run to admit that she got called up to the main roster and shit the bed with her promos and character work.

Yes, she debuted well, then lost a 3-way designed to really only make Charlotte look like great and spent the rest of 2016 doing little but feud with a terrible Dana Brooke. Those wins against Charlotte didn't really lead anywhere since they were focused more on Charlotte vs. Sasha. Bayley ended Charlotte's ppv winning streak with Sasha's distraction. The WM win was fine, but it didn't do shit for her when she lost the belt and title in her next feud with Bliss. I'm not blinded by a love for Bayley. I don't think she has good promo or character work, but I was never super impressed with her in those areas during her NXT run either. She does well enough when booked decently. Also I don't recall saying Sasha is bullet proof. I said her charisma and having important moments has helped her. I also said it wouldn't last. Even Sasha has her dead crowd moments. I don't think Bayley has Sasha's charisma, but she definitely has some and would manage fine if she was booked more competently. The biggest problem right now is shit booking for division outside of Alexa.

[MORELOCK]

17 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Yes, she debuted well, then lost a 3-way designed to really only make Charlotte look like great and spent the rest of 2016 doing little but feud with a terrible Dana Brooke. Those wins against Charlotte didn't really lead anywhere since they were focused more on Charlotte vs. Sasha. Bayley ended Charlotte's ppv winning streak with Sasha's distraction. The WM win was fine, but it didn't do shit for her when she lost the belt and title in her next feud with Bliss. I'm not blinded by a love for Bayley. I don't think she has good promo or character work, but I was never super impressed with her in those areas during her NXT run either. She does well enough when booked decently. Also I don't recall saying Sasha is bullet proof. I said her charisma and having important moments has helped her. I also said it wouldn't last. Even Sasha has her dead crowd moments. I don't think Bayley has Sasha's charisma, but she definitely has some and would manage fine if she was booked more competently. The biggest problem right now is shit booking for division outside of Alexa.

"Bayley's extremely strong booking didn't mean anything because [bends over backwards to split hairs and make excuses]." Got it. I'll go ahead and disengage.

[Eivion]

I'm fine with ending things here. I was already pretty sure this argument was going to go nowhere.

[JCM]

I think it was a mistake having Bayley beat Charlotte as soon as she got called up. They overestimate how many people knew Bayley's character arc from NXT. Bringing up people as a finished act is leaving 80% of the fun out of it for most of the audience. If Bryan showed up day one beating Undertaker and Cena people would've been like "WTF". Sure a small amount of smarks would've loved it, but you have to get the majority of the audience behind a babyface before you start giving them wins over the best. American Alpha backfired in a similar way to Bayley, and they made the same mistakes with them as they did Bayley(hard push out of the gate and treated them as a finished product with no character development after the call up).

[quackhell]

I think you could have retold the Bayley underdog story on the main roster by getting over the idea that while she became the ace of NXT all the Horsewomen have upped their game while on the main roster and Bayley is lagging behind again. They should have had her struggle, especially against Charlotte never getting a singles win, and build and build and then pay it off at Mania when she finally gets the title AND breaks the PPV streak. It just seems so easy and simple. Plus you can be laying seeds for a Sasha turn soon after. I will agree that Bayley has struggled both with promos and in ring a bit, but the booking has been all over the map.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I said it months ago.  I don't think NXT should be doing 100% of the build up for these characters because only a fraction of the main roster audience is watching NXT.  Bayley isn't "NXT BAYLEEEEYYYYYY" to the casual audience.   She is just one of the many women who have been brought up and whom WWE TELLS the audience is important instead of allowing her to show it.  

Sasha and Charlotte work on the main roster (despite some terrible booking) because their characters translate well in a way where you don't necessarily need to know the entire backstory to get who they are.  

With Bayley you absolutely need to watch her arc on NXT to get the character.  

Same thing with American Alpha.  The casual audience didn't get what they were about and WWE creative didn't put the effort in to show it. They just tell the audience "THESE GUYS WERE GREAT ON NXT" 

I'm sorry but that doesn't cut it.  Most people say "who gives a fuck what they were on NXT"