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UFC 214: Cormier vs. Jones II (7/29/2017) - Anaheim, CA (Honda Center)


Elsalvajeloco

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19 minutes ago, username said:

 

Sixty pounds bigger is like... three weight classes more or less.  And he still has that legit wrestling pedigree.  And has fought about as frequently as Jones has these past few years.

 

That's worth only being like a 7 to 1 dog, right?

I don't know about sixty pounds if Brock has to get into fighting shape (aka off the gimmick). If Jones is weighing 230-235 and Brock has to get to 265, Lesnar isn't rehydrating to 290. So it's closer to 40-45 pounds if Brock goes up to 275ish max.

But yeah, the betting public will make it 3 to 1 if Mayweather-McGregor is any indication but swap out "all Floyd does is run" with "Brock will be so much bigger than him". It's why folks thought Forrest Griffin was going to beat Anderson Silva back at UFC 101. 

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Lesnar would have a better chance of beating Jones than Conor has of beating Mayweather, so there is that.

I really have no idea what to expect from Jones/Cormier. Even though Jones beat OSP he didn't look like his usual self, I can chalk it up to rust but he could have the same issue here. On the other hand, he just dominated Cormier last time and I don't think much has changed to convince me that he can't dominate Cromier again.

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I'm pretty sure I know the consensus on the Women's FW title match, but what about Woodley/Maia and Lawler/Cerrone?

It seems like people rode the Wonderboy ship so hard and then he only had 1 1/2 good rounds against Woodley out of ten rounds. In this fight, I think Woodley knocks Maia out. If Maia doesn't get to Woodley within 8-9 minutes (should it go that long) and on the ground, then it's a wrap because Maia tends to fade even without doing as much work your average welterweight. This may be the only fight at 170 were Woodley would have sizable cardio advantage. If Woodley didn't get his hand forced by Wonderboy really, I dunno what Maia could do beyond awkward trips and a BJJ armdrag to do that.

With Lawler/Cerrone, it's a guy coming off a year long layoff at a new gym and with a new team versus someone who fights every other month consistently and coming in possibly with pre-existing injuries. I don't know if you can make the same prediction like you would six months ago when Cerrone was still on a bit of a roll, and Lawler was only six months out of the cage.

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Cerrone has sounded like a complete mess of himself, but that's all based on reports and nothing from the man himself. Although if it came from Cerrone, he could be missing an arm, have a tire tread mark on his face, and he'd still put a big wad of dip in his mouth and say he was OK.

I've been thinking more and more than Maia can win this fight. At the very least, I think he's going to beat Woodley more than I think Woodley will beat Maia, but it's not THAT much more or anything. Maia looks like he's long past the guy who had his soul ripped from his body by Marquardt. If he gets Woodley to the ground, which I think he can do in the first few rounds, then I don't see how Woodley defends against Maia.

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25 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I'm pretty sure I know the consensus on the Women's FW title match, but what about Woodley/Maia and Lawler/Cerrone?

Yeah, all Cyborg all the time on the WFW Title show.

I think Woodley has the advantage, and will do whatever he can to land shots and avoid the ground like the plague. that being said, Maia does have a real chance if he can get Woodley down early. But i think Woodley takes this and then angles for one of those 'big money' fights he's always going on about.

super excited for Lawler/Cerrone, If Lawler pressures, he can win early. If he hangs back for a bit and lets Cerrone get into a rhythm, it will be much closer but i still think Lawler gets the W. Lawler is just so goddamn good when it comes down to brawling and boxing. 

as for the prelims, looking forward to Barao vs Sterling. Good test to measure where both of these guys are at in their careers. How does Sterling come back from back-to-back split decision losses against a former top dog? How will Barao look fighting at the lower weight this time?

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18 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Cerrone has sounded like a complete mess of himself, but that's all based on reports and nothing from the man himself. Although if it came from Cerrone, he could be missing an arm, have a tire tread mark on his face, and he'd still put a big wad of dip in his mouth and say he was OK.

I've been thinking more and more than Maia can win this fight. At the very least, I think he's going to beat Woodley more than I think Woodley will beat Maia, but it's not THAT much more or anything. Maia looks like he's long past the guy who had his soul ripped from his body by Marquardt. If he gets Woodley to the ground, which I think he can do in the first few rounds, then I don't see how Woodley defends against Maia.

You can pretty much say the same for Woodley. My logic on this fight is Woodley punted Andre Galvao (Maia's heir apparent at Brasa BJJ a year or so prior before Ramon Lemos and Galvao started Atos) up AND out of MMA when Galvao was still one of the best BJJ guys in the world. Woodley is so much better as a fighter than he was in 2010, and I don't think people see that just because he wins in the same sort of fashion. If Maia doesn't get him on the ground fast, the same thing that happened to Galvao is going to happen to Maia.

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I am very excited about Lawler/Cerrone but also a bit worried by it.  My take is that Cerrone is good enough to fight at 170 but eventually is gonna walk into a bigger guy who hits hard and can take a shot who will just lay a beating on him.  That sorta happened his last fight already and Lawler is better at that than Masvidal.  If Lawler is still Lawler the fight could get real ugly.

 

That said Lawler has been through so many wars in recent years that sooner rather than later the wheels are gonna come flying off.  It could be Saturday.

 

I have never considered that Maia would win.  It's not impossible but I just don't see it.

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47 minutes ago, username said:

I am very excited about Lawler/Cerrone but also a bit worried by it.  My take is that Cerrone is good enough to fight at 170 but eventually is gonna walk into a bigger guy who hits hard and can take a shot who will just lay a beating on him.  That sorta happened his last fight already and Lawler is better at that than Masvidal.  If Lawler is still Lawler the fight could get real ugly.

 

That said Lawler has been through so many wars in recent years that sooner rather than later the wheels are gonna come flying off.  It could be Saturday.

 

I have never considered that Maia would win.  It's not impossible but I just don't see it.

I have to really admire someone like Lawler for taking the time off after the Woodley loss instead of jumping right in there just to probably get lamped again. Sucks for fans who love him, but fighters (especially those 5 or more years in) need to assess the amount of damage they've taken over their career and their most recent fight(s). Knowing that Lawler has had many wars and the craziness of Miletich sparring back in the day, Lawler owes it to himself not to play around with getting seriously injured or disabled to the point of no return. So if I have to wait 9 to 12 months for Lawler vs. Cerrone, I am perfectly fine with that wait.

BTW someone brought up the Barao fight. It is happening at a catchweight of 140 due to the CSAC's decision on weight cutting and Barao returning to bantamweight.

 

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It is funny how both guys were booed rather hard at the weigh in.  Jones might be more popular but not by much.  

It really does look like Jones hasn't changed his spots that much to me from his interview after weigh in.  Still extremely arrogant.   I still believe that winning is the worst possible thing for him. 

Cormier doesn't have much of a chance to begin with but this nervously intense side of him is making it much worse.   Jones is definitely in his head.   

 

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19 hours ago, hammerva said:

It really does look like Jones hasn't changed his spots that much to me from his interview after weigh in.  Still extremely arrogant.   I still believe that winning is the worst possible thing for him. 

...and why wouldn't he be? Cormier has been boasting that he is the champion when Jones clearly beat him the first time, and he never beat Jon to actually win the title even though the contenders Cormier has beat in the fashion he beat them (despite the injuries and whatnot in between all that) has been impressive. As much as I don't like the UFC comparing this to Ali-Frazier, it is possibly the closest MMA representation though. It's like when they stripped Ali of the world heavyweight titles and Frazier beat Jimmy Ellis, the winner of the tournament ABC and Top Rank/Bob Arum put together for Ali's vacant WBA title while Ali was in boxing exile essentially. Except imagine if they had fought before that 3 year span Ali was away and Ali beat Frazier to defend the belt. Though I would imagine that would have created an even more insane groundswell of support for Ali in the rematch, in the same vain Cormier has done a poor job of quelling that talk in the year plus long buildup to the second fight. If Cormier is going to talk shit and show that Jones is actually getting to him, Jon has every right in the world to talk shit back. Might as well take advantage of that. That's what makes this fight very intriguing. How much of this is just chest thumping from Cormier and how much is this is serious that can be proven in the cage? Everyone knew Frazier was a hellacious puncher going into that first fight with Ali and if they didn't know, they knew after he landed those left hooks. Whereas here the expectation is Cormier basically needs Jon Jones to be a shot fighter or 1/6 of what he use to be to win a fight with Jon Jones, which is crazy because Cormier basically has had the best run you can expect from an injury prone fighter on the wrong side of 30 with a litany of weight cutting issues going back to at least the Beijing Summer games.

I expect it to be a little bit more competitive than the first fight just because but I dunno how much more. There are stylistic advantages that Jones enjoys that Jon would literally need to let Cormier tee off or gain the upper hand intentionally to make it more closer.

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The thing about the first fight is that Jones set out to crush Cormier's will by beating him at his own game. He fought in a telephone booth and clinched with him for the majority of the fight and just annihilated DC. It was one of the most impressive displays I've ever seen. There were times where it seemed like he intentionally left himself open to Cormier's power punches just to show Daniel he can't be hurt. Cormier is a really great fighter but Jon Jones is the best MMA fighter we've seen yet. Like Elsalva said, why the fuck would he be humble? I never liked his fake ass early persona, so I'll at least take the honesty even if he's a world class douchebag. I would love to be wrong but I don't see this being anything but an even bigger ass whooping than the first fight. I guess there's the narrative of rust but I don't see it factoring into play. 

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Very good scrap between Curran and Albu. I dunno why Curran wasn't as aggressive in the second round as she was in the final round that she clearly won. Parillo should have gave that speech a little earlier because Albu did just enough in the first two rounds to win them.

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I'm surprised that folks kinda peg Calvin Kattar as nothing more than a good local fighter. He might be beating Fili and has already hurt him once through two rounds.

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