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Matt D lost a couple bets, and owes us some reviews.


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About a week ago Matt D made a bet if we as a board would enjoy Samoa Joe vs. Brock Lesnar. The majority did. So Matt owes us some reviews. 4, specifically. Though just two from me. I'll be playing the role of the baby face and giving him shit I love that I don't think he's seen, because sharing is awesome. 

MATCH 1: So, I knew I was sending some 2004-2005 RoH. Problem is, there's so little RoH from that time line online. I tried to find the Generation Next 8 man, no dice. I tried arguably Gabe's best booking performance ever, The original Survival of the Fittest match. Nope. Strong/Gibson Unforgettable? Danielson/Joe MER? Shelley/Jacobs I Quit? Jesus Christ RoH you hate me. Well what do you have? Oh, okay, that works.

 

MATCH 2: So, you know what I love? GLOW! Not the original thing, but the awesome show. My favorite thing about the show, however, is watching one of my favorite women's wrestlers be a really fun actress. So, let's celebrate Kong's success, by getting Matt to review her first great SHIMMER match! And man, I love Shimmer, and I really wish I could have recommended a Rebecca Knox/Daizee Haze match here, but this rules too.

And yes, I know Rippa has reviewed both these in the 1000 project. But I needed something.

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Two observations:

First, this should have been tagged "shame." No reason, just, you know, a suggestion.

Second, Awesome Kong was must-see TV for me when she was feuding with Kim and Wilde in TNA. That legit might be my favorite thing that the company has ever done, even over the Broken Hardys and the Joe/AJ/Daniels stuff. 

Kong is also really good in GLOW to the point that I think that she probably has a solid career in TV ahead of her. 

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You should listen to her on WTF with Marc Maron from last week. She apparently has an acting/stage background from when she was younger and said she always wanted to use wrestling as a launching pad for an acting career.

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2 minutes ago, MonteCarl said:

You should listen to her on WTF with Marc Maron from last week. She apparently has an acting/stage background from when she was younger and said she always wanted to use wrestling as a launching pad for an acting career.

I did listen to it! Sucks this surely means her in ring career, but it's great everything ended up working for her after the tragedy of her WWE stint.

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I actually did listen to that WTF podcast. She's had a pretty interesting life, actually. Her stories about using Wheel of Fortune winnings to buy vending machines while she got more into wrestling and then did a non-TE reality show to get into wrestling school were remarkable. She seems like a really nice person. 

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I assume Matt D has the WWE Network, so he can appreciate some 1999 WCW. I have chosen:

  1. Roddy Piper vs. Buff Bagwell (boxing match) - Bash at the Beach 99
  2. Kevin Nash vs. Sid Vicious (power bomb match) - Starrcade 99

I was somewhat nice in that neither match is too offensively long, but they are sufficiently stupid. Enjoy!

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10 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

 

  1. Roddy Piper vs. Buff Bagwell (boxing match) - Bash at the Beach 99
  2. Kevin Nash vs. Sid Vicious (power bomb match) - Starrcade 99

I didn't even know these existed. Needed a good laugh after reading the "fuego de basura" thread. 

I mean, I'll never watch them unless someone posts them here, but it's funny as hell to know they even exist

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18 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Two observations:

First, this should have been tagged "shame." No reason, just, you know, a suggestion.

Second, Awesome Kong was must-see TV for me when she was feuding with Kim and Wilde in TNA. That legit might be my favorite thing that the company has ever done, even over the Broken Hardys and the Joe/AJ/Daniels stuff. 

Kong is also really good in GLOW to the point that I think that she probably has a solid career in TV ahead of her. 

I love her just for smacking around that waste of flesh Bubba the Love Sponge.

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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

I didn't even know these existed. Needed a good laugh after reading the "fuego de basura" thread. 

I mean, I'll never watch them unless someone posts them here, but it's funny as hell to know they even exist

Here's the only things you need to know:

Spoiler

The boxing match ends when Bagwell hits a block buster and Mills Lane (yes he was the guest ref here) counts to 3 by pointing at the mat 3 times. Actually there's a lot of great wrestlecrap stuff here, but hey, I'm not doing the review.

The power bomb match ends when Jarrett nails Sid with a guitar after a ref (TNA's Slick Johnson) bump. Nash can't power bomb Sid because his back hurts, so he waits for the ref to wake up, then tells the ref the reason Sid is laying down is because he power bombed him. The ref agrees and declares Nash the winner.

 

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Back is against the wall workwise here this week (in part because I'm out next week), but I already made it through a first watch of Aries vs Joe last night (might need a second; it deserves more than I could give it last night) and I do want to move at a pretty good pace. 

With that in mind, I watched Bagwell vs Piper. 

What a mess. I haven't seen any of this since 1999 when I was (at this point of the year) 17 years old, in between high school and college. As such, I have a hard time putting it in context. It's after the Flair/Hogan double turn in the barbed wire cage, so Flair was a heel, I think. For some reason, Piper must be too. At first, as they came out though, I thought they were faces. Piper had a real star presence to him with the gloves on. I don't know if it was roids or just the wasteland that is this PPV (with DDP in a tag match, a tag match on top, and apparently no Booker T, Scott Steiner, Hogan, Luger, Hall or Goldberg), but Piper sort of felt like a bigger deal than he should have coming down. This was in an arena (National Car Rental Center) and not outside on the beach. Did they really only do that in 95? Anyway, Buff comes down and it's brutal. At first (again), I thought he was doing a great job being obnoxious and that this could actually be decent because the crowd would want to see him get beat up by righteous old man Piper. It was horrifying when he brought Judge Judy Bagwell down and I realized he was the face. Again, this is second from the top with Buffer announcing them. Mills Lane is the ref, by the way. The "Let's Get It On!" guy. I have no recollection of any of this.

So, we rarely see worked boxing matches in wrestling. I haven't seriously watched boxing since I was 12 years old and liked to eat Cheetos Paws and watch Tuesday Night Fights on USA (which sounds like the very worst of americana somehow), but this left me a little disappointed that "outright worked boxing" isn't a thing, like in the way shootstyle is a thing, whereas it could have gone and developed its own language with its own tropes. There are a thousand different little pieces of narrative language that have developed over the last century and a half with pro wrestling. It's fun to sort of extrapolate that out with a more over the top sort of worked boxing, one that didn't necessarily try to be real but that tried to be consistent within itself. That's not this. They don't really have time to work a story in the two 3 minute rounds of so that they go. Instead, the loose story is that Piper has more tactical skill but wants to clown Bagwell, Bagwell has heart and trained for it enough to keep his hands up and punch back. And they go straight on to heel chicanery in the form of gimmicking the gloves with blinding liquid to start round 2. Lane is completely and utterly ineffectual throughout, missing the cheating, but also not breaking them once, basically allowing them to pound a guy in the corner, which can't be legal, and then allowing the completely absurd finish with Judy Bagwell inserting herself (without there being an obvious cue that Lane realized Flair/Piper were cheating), then inserting herself more, then Buff hitting the Blockbuster and getting a pin. What's the point of having a celebrity troubleshooting ref if he can't be allowed to actually do his job? 

What I find most frustrating, actually, is that I can't figure out if some of the problems are due to this being a worked boxing match on a wrestling show or just because it's WCW. They could have done the same exact thing, let it breathe a little more, focused on the details, and it would have been fine. If the story of the first few rounds (2-3 instead of 1) was that Piper had superior skill but Bagwell was younger and had better wind and just kept coming, that would have been a good "shine" and validated the need for Piper/Flair to cheat. The round with the cheating was generally ok, perfectly fine heat of Piper (who seemed threatened to blow up at this point), getting shots in while Bagwell shot off blind. The comeback could have actually been built to, however. They tried, somewhat, with Bagwell finally catching Piper in the corner only for Piper to basically be saved by the bell, but the timing was off and the build wasn't there, to the point where the announcers seemed to miss it entirely and the crowd didn't care anyway. If he had actual sympathy at that point, the comeback (because it was punch/punishment/revenge driven), could have led to a big pop. As it was, it was a whole lot of nothing. Then Flair/Piper could have tried to go back to the cheating, gotten caught clearly and cleanly by Lane, bringing Judy in to even the odds, and then, with Lane pissed off at the cheating, he'd allow Bagwell to do whatever, let Judy interfere, and the Blockbuster would have worked out. That's the crazy thing. This could have basically worked, but the bookers, Bagwell, and Lane (and though I don't blame them, drunk Heenan or not, the announcers) were all too inept at their jobs to pull it off. 

There are fun bits of wrestlecrap: someone in the crowd screaming at a cameraman to get out of his way; Judy Bagwell tripping on the way in (and Heenan not having a line, which was sad); Flair saying he respected Bagwell's mother; Flair yelling "So does your mother" to the crowd; and yes, Flair stooging huge for Judy as she chases him around the ring. Ultimately, I think Bagwell left more over than he came in, mainly due to Flair and Judy, but that's really not saying so much. This was second from the top, and somehow, despite it all, I'm actually frustrated not that this was terrible, but that it could have actually been pulled off.

Notes:

I turned this in to Benoit/Saturn vs Jersey Triad. Ew Benoit. Hey, the Bigelow/DDP Shatter Cutter is pretty neat. I don't remember that at all. I realize that Heenan was at the end of his rope here, but I'm glad I have to hear him through this. Urgh, fake DDP music. There was so much BS in this match. Just in the last minute. Benoit sure took that metal box shot unprotected. Fuck.

Ok. 

I went back here to get the pre-match video package. Geez. TV Dad JJ Dillon is the worst JJ Dillon. They got Buffer for this. Geez? I don't believe this is second from the top. Where the hell is the star power on this PPV? Where the hell is Scott Steiner or Booker T or Luger or Goldberg? 

Piper's got good swagger coming out. It's kind of neat to see Flair come out with him I guess. There's never been a good fake boxing match in wrestling. Piper's got presence here. He really does. 

Lots of Buff signs. Weird. I wonder if they're plants or if he had that much heat. Piper shadowboxing with Flair is funny. 

Bagwell is suitably annoying. Maybe this won't be so bad. Ok they start with Bagwell babbling. Wait, Buff is the face? Urgh. Judy Bagwell trips and Heenan really doesn't have a line. Sad! I feel so bad for Bagwell's mom. is she alive? I mean with what he's doing?

Flair: "I respect your mother." Bagwell's hair is basically painted on. 

10 3 minute rounds. They're working this ok. Bagwell getting a few things in but Piper's skill overwhelming him. Piper sticks his head out to taunt. Pays for it a bit. Shots in the corner. Piper's going to blow himself up. Eats a shot. Gets a shot in and Bagwell goes down. bagwell's not showing any actual skill so it's acceptable.

"Hey Cameraman get the hell out of my way!" ha. Bagwell sucks. Bagwell's hitting too many shots and Piper hugs him at the end and gets a headbutt.

Flair spraying gloves. Piper peppering him. In the eyes of Buff. Piper wipes the glvoe clean with Flair and Piper closes in. Judy has a sponge. That's what we all want to see. Bagwell's blind and Piper's nailing him. Another knock down. Bagwell back up. But Bgawell gets him in the corner and pounds him like crazy. Piper down. More sponge. Flair yelling. Round ends.

"It's been all piper." right after they get him down. Lane checking Flair and the gloves. Bagwell selling eyes. "So does your mother!" Flair.

Piper getting him and Judy comes in and bit Piper' ear. Judy bucket on head. Punch. blockbuster. Pin. Judy chases Flair around ring. Flair has fists up. throws water again. So.. so weird. 

I think Bagwell was more over at the end than the beginning? Flair gyrating. 

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Bagwell was really over after he turned on Scott Steiner. On the TV building to this, Bagwell had disrespected Piper accidentally when insulting Flair, so Piper joined Flair. 

Piper was having a hard time getting people to boo him unlike Flair. If Flair is heel, people boo him out of respect. Who is the only person I can think of who could do that. 

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1 hour ago, Victator said:

Bagwell was really over after he turned on Scott Steiner. On the TV building to this, Bagwell had disrespected Piper accidentally when insulting Flair, so Piper joined Flair. 

Piper was having a hard time getting people to boo him unlike Flair. If Flair is heel, people boo him out of respect. Who is the only person I can think of who could do that. 

The crowd was chanting "Bagwell Sucks."

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The Bagwell match is just odd.  Really feels like the heel/face dynamic should have been reversed.

I loathe the Sid-Nash powerbomb match.  I feel like pro wrestling should have at least one firm rule - if the ref didn't see it, it didn't happen.  I'm more or less ok with another ref coming down to make a ruling or the ref seeing chicanery on a monitor and reversing the decision, but I hate when the ref calls things he didn't see - in this case, awarding the match to Nash based on a phantom powerbomb.  If the ref didn't see the heeling due to ref bump, blindness, being distracted, etc., don't call it.  It's as simple as that.

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9 minutes ago, twiztor said:

"tomorrow"

I get ~26 vacation days a year. Maybe a few more now. I hate taking them because it's so much more grief than if i just stay here. Being miserable for two work weeks just to take one off where I'd actually be happier if I worked all three does not compute. so it's been a rough week of catch up. I did have the best intentions.

I've been scumming off someone else's network account (he knows who he is), but it's being eliminated, so I had to sign up for the free trial too. Consider that: I signed up for the free network trial to watch a Sid vs Nash powerbomb match from dark ages WCW. No one's ever done that at least. 

Anyway, I'll get there. I want to not half ass this.

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So my other big hold up is that el Dragon's stuff really deserve some attention and I just haven't been able to give it but i didn't want to toss out the Nash match because it felt unfair. But I've been twiztor peer pressured into it. So here it is.

Hey, Luger attacking Sting's arm with the baseball bat is actually kind of awesome. Sting's got his arm in the chair. I wish Liz would emote something though. Why does Luger's theme have the riff from People are People?

Ok, here's the lead up. The Sid mask Nash wore was kind of great. Hall as his shadow seems weird though. Ha, they worked in the "Only half the man I am" soundbyte. That's all the context I need. 

Some guy who is way too old has the worst SID sign imaginable. What a goof.

Heenan sounds drunk. He still gets in good line in. "You think anyone cares?" on whether or not Sting is injured. It's about the tone and the timing.

Hall's injured so he can't make this entertaining. Nash's swagger coming out is pretty good actually, the grin, the finger up and down for the bomb. I wonder how many turns he had since a year before? Just two? 

This actually has some presence with their size and the size of the crowd and the differential between them and the ref. 

Ok, notes: 

-kick punch punch, get hair out of face. hang out in the corner, knee in. Sid sell. Scream. 


-wind up leg and knee. Sid is just hanging out there. He hasn't taken nearly enough damage. Aim Elbow. Sid leads into punches dumbly. Choke drop (not slam). Two. Duck CL (good intensity). Bad Sid kick. Set up for first bomb and low blow. No DQ so why not.
-Out to floor. Nash stays on him. Goes for PB to floor. How the hell did Sid get his back lacerated? He hasn't done anything! Anyway, Sid kicks him to take back over. Transition is because he went for the Power bomb on the floor. Sid tosses him into the apron, then the rail. This is fine so far. Not good but fine. Sid clubbers.
-Kick to gut. toss to rail. Pick up chair. Weak shot to back, but at least it's to the back? Announcers pick up on it but it's Sid so who knows if its intentional.
-Gingerly places him back into ring. "How'd you like to be Mark Johnson in with them?" "No I'd rather have hair."
-Sid with a cut off (weak) CL out of nowhere. I actually really like how he sizes Nash up, backsteps to the ropes, and comes back with the legdrop. Between that and Nash's really good clothesline attempt from earlier, this isn't terrible, really. I can only imagine how bad the finish will be.
-Sid does the NWO hand thing. Punch. Punch. I don't even hate Sid's whole body wind up punches. It's a good use of his size. He teases another punch and then slams him. What? It's like Nash called something else mid punch. Weird.
-Sid's trying to get teh fans into it. I think he's the face? I have no idea. Nash with perfect eyepoke. Bad whip and ref bump. Sid with a hopeless power bomb. Still gets a pop. Good for Nash taking it. Would have been better if he took it vs the Giant instead. Jarrett in. Sid waits way too long for the guitar. Gimmicked guitars never looked worse. This actually gets some heat but that's because everyone wants to see another power bomb. Nash sells the back instead of hitting it? I'm confused why he's being so vulnerable. that's not like him. It's actually getting over the power bomb. He tells the ref he actually did it and gets the win. Yeah, I didn't hate this. Ok, write up time.

So, I came into this with terribly low expectations. Primarily, I didn't think Nash was going to give anything. I thought he was going to play Sid for a complete fool. I also thought there was going to be some bs at the end which ended the match by not living up to the stip (and it's not like it's that hard of a stip; I just figured it'd be overbooked). 

In some ways, then, I was happily surprised. There was a certain amount of presence to this. Both guys ARE big. Both guys are stars. The crowd was more or less into at least the power bomb attempts, which might be all you can hope for at this point in a late 99 WCW show. Sid's lame Brody level shots weren't going to help when it came to presence but they tried a few things. Nash had one beastly looking clothesline attempt. Sid managed to get himself cut open somehow. He also managed to somehow focus on Nash's back which played into the finish, miraculously enough. Nash kind of sort of got Sid up for a choke trip (I'm being generous). Nash took a hellacious power bomb where Sid barely got him up and barely controlled him. I liked the style in which Sid hit his leg drop. A couple of transitions were based on power bomb attempts which is always smart for this sort of match (also a really fun Nash eyepoke). 

The biggest problem was Sid. He did some things ok, but he's the dirt poor worst when it comes to positioning. That is, he just hung out in the corner and took stuff on big delay way too early in the match. He is just incapable of getting himself in the right place at the right time to take offense. The Jarrett guitar shot was particularly bad. He doesn't act and react to things (emotional selling, reactive selling, whatever). He just stumbles through life. For someone so legit nuts, he's got the character work of Lance Storm.

What about the finish? You know, I'm cool with it. The finish got over Sid's power bomb as a total killer and made Nash look like a chickenshit heel, which probably isn't a bad thing given where they were going with Sid upcoming. On a show with a number of good finishes, this could have been very effective in helping both Nash and Sid to get/stay over. On a show like this, at a time like this, it was just more of the same BS, however. Out of context, I can't really blame the match. I can't even blame Nash. I've seen him lose matches and have the other guy look way worse. I've seen him win matches and have the other guy look way worse. Obviously, this wasn't Sid protecting himself. He couldn't protect himself out of a paper back, or what have you. There's a question of whether Nash should be playing a chickenshit heel at all, but if you want Sid to look strong in a loss, that's one way to do it. This felt more consequential and meaningful than three-fourth of the matches on Battleground, right?

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