Battleground V

[Wyld Samurai]

I just don't think Nak is as good as people says he is. 

I'll stand by my post from yesterday - Nak isn't Muta. 

[The Man Known as Dan]

1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

For the record,  I did not think Samoa Joe lost a step,  I thought the match with him and Finn where Joe got busted open was fucking awesome. Samoa Joe will forever be awesome. 

I wasn't meaning you specifically, just that I had been hearing that mindset a good deal. But yes, that match ruled. Also probably Finns best WWE match to date.

[Eivion]

2 minutes ago, El Dragon said:

How many times can we say Nak didn't have great chemistry with someone before we just start questioning if he isn't adjusting to WWE style well?

The Roode matches were totally that style, and I thought they were great. That said, I still don't think you are completely off base about the trouble adjusting. I also don't think its any one problem which makes it worse.

[Niners Fan in CT]

6 minutes ago, JCM said:

So the people who are willing to pay to watch a show with Nak vs Corbin on it deserve to see a half ass performance from Nakamura?

No, you are right that he should be giving his all and doing whatever management asks so I agree (it just won't happen),  my only point is that management is asking him to do things that don't make much sense for him. He's never been a John Cena.    AJ Styles is a John Cena.  Nakamura is a late-career Taker or a Brock Lesnar.  Maybe this won't work out and they'll go their separate ways. 

[Beech27]

I'm in the "Nak is struggling as much as lazy" camp. He's (mostly) used to matches being built around escalating violence in a pseudo-sports environment, not the heat/shine formula. This is reductive as hell--yes there are holes--but the work of top faces in Japan and WWE is different. Both he and Itami have suffered from this. They've always worked best as taunting, swaggering dickheads, who just happen to kick harder and more accurately than you. Not working as (sometimes recklessly) stiff, dominant jerks (who you cheer anyway) but firey comeback oriented babyfaces was always dubious. 

(Regarding tonight: I also think Corbin is brutally boring in control, which doesn't help.)

[DreamBroken]

THE GREAT KHALI! I love that the return of the Punjabi Prison summoned it's creator. I thought the match was pretty fun and look forward to Khali w/ the Singh Bros as the Modern Day Maharaja's stable.

Enjoyed most of the show and dug some different finishes/outcomes. Usos/New Day was great as usual. Natalya winning was unexpected but I welcome the change. Tamina/Lana working together throughout was fun until they got bounced early, solid match with a fast pace.

The one thing I did hate was jobbing out Mike Kanellis that quick and clean in his first PPV match. That sucked.

Felt the preshow match was maybe the least interesting match to me ever put in that spot since they started the preshows, but I ended up actually not hating it surprisingly. Usually have zero interest in either guy but the match was fairly decent.

Surprised to see Owens regain the US that quick. Definitely thought it was going to be a double pin draw type.

[username]

 

9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

No, you are right that he should be giving his all and doing whatever management asks so I agree (it just won't happen),  my only point is that management is asking him to do things that don't make much sense for him. He's never been a John Cena.    AJ Styles is a John Cena.  Nakamura is a late-career Taker or a Brock Lesnar.  Maybe this won't work out and they'll go their separate ways. 

 Like, I say this with no personal animosity or anything towards you, but this is one of the dumbest takes I've seen in a while.  Ignoring every obvious problem with this... how much do you want to piss off virtually every single person wrestling there?  They live with it when it comes to Brock/Taker/Hunter types but even then still grumble, you think it would go well if they bestowed that role to someone who put in zero work to earn it?  How many people do you think would quit that month?  How many would say to hell with it and just start mailing it in themselves?  How much worse would it get if Nak struggled/mailed it in as hard as he is now, which feels likely?  Would even be a good idea to place Nak into that kind of locker room environment?

I think the problem is actually counter-intuitive: they've protected Nak too much.  In the vast majority of cases the standard WWE "bring them in hot, then cool them off immediately after" approach is a bad idea;  I think Nak needs it.  Put Corbin over him next ppv, treat him as just a guy.  I think Nak at this point needs to feel like his spot is at risk, needs to have his feet held to the fire.  If he still doesn't care, if he still can't get out of first gear then you can safely say it is a lost cause and proceed however you want.  If it wakes something up in him and he once again becomes the guy people were excited about, it will have been worthwhile.

In truth, the better idea is to build to him vs AJ at Summerslam in a middle of the card showcase match and see what happens.  AJ should go 100% go over, and if Nak doesn't shine there then go the "make him just a guy" route.

[Jiji]

Anybody know how long Nakamura's contract is? Did Dave mention that last year? I could see them just holding onto Nakamura even if he doesn't turn it around and they don't care about him outside of merchandising as to keep him from returning to New Japan.

[Hagan]

Some of these takes are treating Nak like he's Fake Kane or Mordecai or something. Nakamura is one of the few over babyfaces they have. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

2 minutes ago, username said:

 

 Like, I say this with no personal animosity or anything towards you, but this is one of the dumbest takes I've seen in a while.  Ignoring every obvious problem with this... how much do you want to piss off virtually every single person wrestling there?  They live with it when it comes to Brock/Taker/Hunter types but even then still grumble, you think it would go well if they bestowed that role to someone who put in zero work to earn it?  

Let me stop you right there. This is a business that gives main events to Floyd Mayweather and Mike Tyson.  Did they "deserve" those big paydays?  Well,  actually they did because they are worth it.  Nakamura doesn't necessarily have to earn anything.  But even what you said makes no sense this is a guy who has wrestled for 20 years and you are going to say to me that he doesn't deserve anything?  I don't care how many hours people put in at the performance center this is about who can make WWE the most money and about who people will pay to see. 

I will not buy a ticket to watch Tye Dillenger.  I don't hate the guy, he seems pretty cool but he does not do much for me. He's worked hard, no disputing that. He was in development for a very long time.  He deserved an opportunity to make it on the main roster sure...  but with a guy like Nakamura we are discussing guys who sell merchandise,  guys who can feasibly main event shows and draw tens of thousands of customers. Nakamura has sold out arenas. He may be lazy but he's proven to draw. 

Before you come at me with this gibberish,  go back and think about how this is a business first above all else. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Fuck,  I just read the part where you said "let's cool Nakamura off and make him just a guy".   @username are you actually Vince McMahon behind that keyboard? He's already been cooled off enough, what part of "special" are you not understanding here?  Nakamura could have been (and still could be) special..  not everyone has the ability and the charisma that he possesses. 

You know Robinson Cano used to get bashed a lot when he was on the Yanks because he did some shit that people thought he was lazy, he wouldn't run out a fly ball and shit like that but you deal with it because it's a special player. The 4th outfielder can't get away with shit that the star first baseman can.  That is sports... that is life.. 

[EVA]

I think a big issue with Nakamura adapting to WWE style is that he doesn't really have any mid-tier flashy or high-impact offense to pop the crowd on his comebacks or escalate the action into the finish.  He's just throwing more awkward kicks and knees where he doesn't even slap his thigh to get the requisite OH! reaction, so his comebacks just kinda meander along until he goes into the Kinshasa spots.

[Greggulator]

That tag match was awesome. The Usos really have sneaked up on everyone as an all-time great team. And the little pause the New Day had after they lost the belts and moved to Smackdown served them well. They're a great act. 

Tonight really hit me just how great Xavier Woods has become. He was absolutely awful in NXT and after his call-up. I think he may have been the worst guy on the roster. He's one of the best tag team faces in eons right now. He gets the right amount of sympathy, has awesome timed comebacks, knows when (and not just how) to connect with the crowd and now has that crazy ass elbow for his finisher. (And him getting his jaw blasted on the first attempt was so nasty.)

I loved him in their heel days as a shit-talking nerdy Michael Hayes. I thought that he would have maxed out at that role -- a glorified manager who can steal some wins. Nope. He's become the new Ricky Morton at some point. 

[James F'n X]

When @Greggulator is only optimistic about one match on a show, you know that show was shit.

[Greggulator]

Just now, James F'n X said:

When @Greggulator is only optimistic about one match on a show, you know that show was shit.

Actually, that and the Punjabi Prison match were the only two matches I saw from start to finish. 

The Punjabi Prison match is a dumb gimmick match. It's great wrestling trash. The rules make no sense. We're supposed to believe that this thing is made of bamboo that can KILL. Nothing can really happen because of how the ring is set up. It's essentially just a prop to give a pro-Indian heel a cheap way to win the match. I wasn't really expecting anything at all from it other than hopefully some crazy RKO or bump. We got the crazy bump and a wacky run-in from a giant stiff. It was exactly what I thought it was going to be. 

[Rev Ray]

- I think the crowd got tired chanting every 5 seconds on the pre-show.

- It felt like Young Boy Tom had a rough night.  It seems like there was a lot of bad calls on his part.

- This was great:

 

- Sgt. Slaughter is going to show up and punch John Cena in the throat for letting the flag hit the ground.  Rusev cut his arm either on or above his flag tattoo.

  Things that would have made the flag match better:

1.  Rusev pulling the main pole out of the ground and carrying it and the flag up the ramp rather than climbing up and grabbing it.

2.  If they greased the ramp and made this like a Double Dare challenge

3.  If Rusev threw Cena's flag into the crowd and they played keep away from Cena

4. If Rusev stole the flag stand off the stairs and turned this into a Benny Hill chase

- So if the Fashion X Files continue, I want Pat Patterson as the Smoking Man.  We got our Eddie Money call back.  Konnor ended up with Tully guts in his beard.  It's not safe to be a stuff animal around ringside... wait a minute.... IT WAS FALE!

- Mike Kanellis' tights look like underwear a heel manager who lost a tuxedo match would wear

 

- People paying $600 to look through the cage:  A fool and his money are soon parted.

- I was going to make a joke about Randy throwing out his shoulder jumping the gap between the inner and outer cage, only for him to seemingly just step across the gap and then when I thought "Wow, he just dodged a bullet", he ended up slipping for some reason and looked like he might legit torch his shoulder again.  And my god, that almost bump he took when Khali came out was also scary.  Also, how hilarious the Singh's just slipped through the cage.  JBL saying that Singh "Did his job" dying for Jinder to get an advantage, I feel like they should do the Flintstones animal appliances "It's a living!" take to the camera as they're dead on the ground.

 

- the biggest outrage of the night:  Talking Smack returns, but with Jerry Lawler.  FUCK YOU WWE.  No DBry, no peace.  But Owens taking credit for Talking Smack being cut back was masterful heeling.

 

 

 

[The Natural]

[sabremike]

Isn't the punchline about the India push that the last time the company toured there was such a disaster that several guys said they would quit if they were ever forced to go back?

[Go2Sleep]

I'll need to re-watch, but the tag title match struck me as one of WWE's better matches this year, and probably the best New Day match ever. Those guys were doing some crazy epic shit.

Rest of the show was pretty hard to pay attention to, but the Khali finish was some grade-A wrestlecrap. God that main was boring before that, though.

To weigh in on Nakamura, I think the best comparison right now is Brock Lesnar. His good matches are really good, but there's a lot of underwhelming stuff in between. His best work in WWE has been with Sami, Aries, and TJP. I think it's pretty clear he's limited by the WWE style. His strengths are back-and-forth type matches with quick strike exchanges where he doesn't have to sell too much. A better wrestler would adapt, but a better company wouldn't make everyone work the same generic-ass style, so eh.

[The Natural]

Poor Singh Brothers during this feud.

[Casey]

A Redditor, who I guess is Indian (or speaks/understands their language), listened to the main event with the Indian commentators. It's kind of fascinating, since they treat Jinder like the all conquering hero, and basically don't even pay attention to Orton or his accomplishments in WWE.

Quote

• First thing to make clear, there was literally no question who was the face and who was the heel. Jinder was the all conquering hero and Orton was the evil American
• When Jinder came to the ring, both the commentators ran down his accomplishments and ended with "1.3 Billion people are supporting him, and that will lead him to victory today"
• When Orton came down to the ring, they barely acknowledged his existence instead focusing on "Jinder agreed to face Randy in this match despite knowing he would have no backup. What a display of bravery"
• "India stands with Jinder" was the entire message on commentary
• Even the Hindi commentary could not sell "Jinder has an advantage in the Punjabi Prison Match because he is from Punjab" angle
• Jinder was addressed by the honorific "Jinderji" or "Maharaja Sahab" which is like saying "The esteemed Jinder" or "The respected Maharaja"
• One of the commentators kept saying "Randy Mahal" for some reason before correcting himself every time
• Jinder bravely preventing Orton from exiting the inner cage, but how dare Orton stand in Jinder's way???
• When the Singh Brothers pulled Jinder out, the commentators actively mocked Orton for being stuck in the inner cage
• On that note, why are the Singh Brothers here? Because they want to ensure that only a deserving person is Champion, and Jinder is the only deserving person in this match
• When the Singh Brothers attacked Orton, the commentary first egged them on, and then when Orton turned the tables, it became "What a brave fight by the Singh Brothers who are fighting someone twice their size"
• When Orton got the Kendo stick and Jinder begged, they were besides themselves and said "Jinder shouldn't reduce himself to begging for mercy, he is better than this."
• When the Singh brother was sent through the table and the other one was dispatched by a chair, the commentators said "The Singh Brothers showing us what the word 'loyalty' truly means. They are putting themselves on the line for Jinder"
• When Orton attacked Jinder with the steel chair, the commentators were livid "How dare he use a steel chair, I can understand using a Lathi (indian version of Kendo stick) but a steel chair is going too far, he wants to end the Maharaja's career"
• When The Great Khali came out, I am pretty sure both commentators jizzed in their pants right there. One of them sounded like the football commentators who scream "GOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL". That moment alone was worth watching the match in Hindi (I would highly recommend you watch that moment on the Hindi commentary, it is at 3:06:00 and you don't even need to know Hindi to feel the commentator's excitement) ETA: Streamable link of part of the overall ending, but includes Khali's entrance in Hindi: https://streamable.com/f473u
• They ended it with "This is patriotism. This is what it means to have the back of your brother (brother not in the "They are related" sense). India is proud of its two sons who are standing tall"

Makes me wonder if the Russian commentary treated Rusev like the face in the Flag Match. Yes, I know, Bulgaria, but they don't have Bulgarian commentators and he's been presented as living/being from Russia at different times in his career.

[Rev Ray]

4 minutes ago, Casey said:

A Redditor, who I guess is Indian (or speaks/understands their language), listened to the main event with the Indian commentators. It's kind of fascinating, since they treat Jinder like the all conquering hero, and basically don't even pay attention to Orton or his accomplishments in WWE.

Makes me wonder if the Russian commentary treated Rusev like the face in the Flag Match. Yes, I know, Bulgaria, but they don't have Bulgarian commentators and he's been presented as living/being from Russia at different times in his career.

So Hindi Bill Watts going off on Commies.....

[piranesi]

I watched an episode of GLOW on Netflix earlier so Lana wasn't even the best female Russian heel worker I saw on tv today. In fact if it was March Madness right now Lana would lose to Welfare Queen and easily to Beirut. 

[Go2Sleep]

Yeah, but Welfare Queen is Awesome Kong, so that really isn't fair.

[The Natural]

Shinsuke Nakamura was inconsistent in NJPW.

Nak's WWE debut match against Sami Zayn was brilliant. The matches with Samoa Joe didn't do it for me whereas Bobby Roode put on Shinsuke's best feud so far in the WWE.

Haven't seen Nak's PPV bouts.