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JULY 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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3 hours ago, Craig H said:

Let's say Brock is on his way out though. You have to use him to put over SOMEONE that isn't Roman because Roman looks to have hit his ceiling. So aside from Roman, who would you have Brock put over on his way out?

Tanahashi.  Lol, Brock still owes him a job from 2006.

Spoiler

Supposedly, one of the reasons he quit NJPW was he didn't want to job the the title to Tana.  Considering NJPW never seemed to try too hard to get back the title belt Brock kept, I'm guessing money issues also had a lot to do with it.

 

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6 hours ago, Craig H said:

If you're UFC, you could ask why you would even bother signing the guy because he's a bigger walking suspension than Nick Diaz. Is it going to be worth it to pay out the ass for a guy who would get blown out of the water by many in the heavyweight division, pop one big buyrate, and then be pushing for an even bigger suspension? I can't keep track of the changes, but another violation is 2 or 4 years minimum? If that's the case, why do it?

 

I mean, the bolded part answers your question.  He "won" his last fight (changed to a "no contest" I believe) on a card that did a million buys, and he was the main draw on it.  If he can he pull another buyrate even in the upper hundred of thousands they will gladly pay him several millions of dollars to do so no questions asked.

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I don't get people thinking Braun has a high ceiling. I think Braun is the embodiment of the anti-Roman fanbase and when he's paired up against someone who isn't Roman Reigns, he's not going be anywhere near as over as people think he should be.

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He won't be over as in cheered for necessarily, but the character itself as unbeatable monster will be over as long as they don't mess it up somehow. Fans like to watch monster wrestlers that are competent, I haven't seen anything from him that would give me doubt that he can keep it up and keep growing. 

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The problem with a big monster staying over is eventually they have to lose and when they do, they need to be compelling characters to stay over. Historically, the WWE has struggled with keeping monsters over without using supernatural powers. I think Braun's trajectory is closer to the Big Show's than say Undertaker.

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Braun does have an aura about him that a lot of other big monsters don't have, similar to Vader and Undertaker. Kane and Big Show are, well were, great big men but they never really had the kind of aura that Taker and Vader had whether because of booking (Kane) or being rushed to the main event before having time to learn to portray a monster (Big Show probably could have had a monster aura but when he debuted you could still see his real personality under the surface, you could tell he wasn't really a monster). Braun is close to having that long lasting monster wrestler vibe. There are far worse choices for Brock to put over. Braun and Finn are the top two people Brock should put over on his way out. Joe and Nak would be nice from a fans perspective but they probably have shorter shelf lives for WWE, especially Nak how I would not be surprised went back to Japan once his current contract is up. 

 

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21 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

He won't be over as in cheered for necessarily, but the character itself as unbeatable monster will be over as long as they don't mess it up somehow.

Spoiler

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TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT YOUR FUTURE BRAUN

 

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It's only a matter of time until Braun is dancing or has an odd couple romance with a female wrestler. That seems to be the path that all their monsters eventually go down. Until then, I'll enjoy watching him. 

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47 minutes ago, Brysynner said:

The problem with a big monster staying over is eventually they have to lose and when they do, they need to be compelling characters to stay over.

Braun has lost and remained over. The trick is to protect him instead of jobbing him out into oblivion to make Roman look stronger - we will see which one they decide on.

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10 minutes ago, Log said:

It's only a matter of time until Braun is dancing or has an odd couple romance with a female wrestler. That seems to be the path that all their monsters eventually go down. Until then, I'll enjoy watching him. 

i think it depends on whether braun is viewed by management as a special attraction or a full-time performer. 

that being said, alexa bliss using braun as her personal monster to settle her scores could be fun. 

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Until there is evidence to the contrary, I still think Vince is of the mind that he needs a "top guy", and that guy has to look a certain way. We had a conversation here if that ever happened, and I think we came up with Yokozuna and that's really it. I just don't think they are going to go forward with a hillbilly monster as the ace.

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21 minutes ago, Log said:

It's only a matter of time until Braun is dancing or has an odd couple romance with a female wrestler. That seems to be the path that all their monsters eventually go down. Until then, I'll enjoy watching him. 

If Don Callis' story about how Kurrgan became Dancin Kurrgan has taught us anything it's that no matter good of a dancer you are, NEVER dance in front of Vince unless you plan on that becoming your gimmick.

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1 hour ago, Brysynner said:

The problem with a big monster staying over is eventually they have to lose and when they do, they need to be compelling characters to stay over. Historically, the WWE has struggled with keeping monsters over without using supernatural powers. I think Braun's trajectory is closer to the Big Show's than say Undertaker.

5 time World Champ, only guy to hold the ECW/WCW/WWE Triple Crown, 20+ year career as an upper mid-card to main event level performer. You say "Big Show's career" like it's a bad thing. 

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26 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

If Don Callis' story about how Kurrgan became Dancin Kurrgan has taught us anything it's that no matter good of a dancer you are, NEVER dance in front of Vince unless you plan on that becoming your gimmick.

Really, never do anything in front of Vince that you wouldn't want to be your gimmick.

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1 hour ago, Sublime said:

Braun does have an aura about him that a lot of other big monsters don't have, similar to Vader and Undertaker. Kane and Big Show are, well were, great big men but they never really had the kind of aura that Taker and Vader had whether because of booking (Kane) or being rushed to the main event before having time to learn to portray a monster (Big Show probably could have had a monster aura but when he debuted you could still see his real personality under the surface, you could tell he wasn't really a monster). Braun is close to having that long lasting monster wrestler vibe. There are far worse choices for Brock to put over. Braun and Finn are the top two people Brock should put over on his way out. Joe and Nak would be nice from a fans perspective but they probably have shorter shelf lives for WWE, especially Nak how I would not be surprised went back to Japan once his current contract is up. 

 

Eh, I feel like putting Braun in the class of Undertaker or Vader is probably overestimating him.  LIke Brysynner said, a lot of it may be that he's programmed against Reigns.  He's going to struggle against in the WWE formula, which is generally to rocket heel monsters to the top, job them out to the ace babyface, then struggle to keep the monster over.

He's getting good crowd reactions, so they've got.... something with him.  He hasn't really convinced me that he's going to be a good-to-great worker or that he'll be a good promo, two things that could limit his long-term success.  I feel like he's probably the best big man right now in a down period for big men.  Whether or not that's enough for long-term success, I dunno.  If I had to guess, I'd wager his ceiling is well below Kane or Big Show's

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5 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

5 time World Champ, only guy to hold the ECW/WCW/WWE Triple Crown, 20+ year career as an upper mid-card to main event level performer. You say "Big Show's career" like it's a bad thing. 

It's a bad thing when people say you should be on the level of Hulk Hogan/Steve Austin/John Cena. But yeah I agree having a Big Show/Kane WWE career is not a bad thing at all, especially if you can remain healthy and save your money well.

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2 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Really, never do anything in front of Vince that you wouldn't want to be your gimmick.

Pretty much. I think that was Callis' actual quote. "Never do anything in front of Vince that you wouldn't be willing to do in front of millions of people on Monday Night" or something to that effect. I think they were at a pre-ppv party or something like that and Kurrgan decided to dance with his wife. This was back when Kurrgan was still in his monster phase with Callis as Jackyl managing him. Kurrgan apparently is a pretty good dancer but Don stopped him and told him not to do it b/c Vince was watching. Kurrgan did it anyway (which he certainly had the right to do without being given a stupid gimmick as a result) and that's how Vince got the idea for Dancin Kurrgan.

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8 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

5 time World Champ, only guy to hold the ECW/WCW/WWE Triple Crown, 20+ year career as an upper mid-card to main event level performer. You say "Big Show's career" like it's a bad thing. 

Don't forget he has an IRONCLAD CONTRACT.

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The other aspect to Braun is that we haven't really seen him against anyone except Reigns, Big Show, and Kalisto and he nailed all those. But imagine him against Cena, Styles, or Balor. I have the feeling those would still be great feuds. They still have at least a couple of years worth of programs they can run with him as a monster before they need to resort to dancing or diapers or whatever dumb shit Vince is into then.

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11 minutes ago, Horton Hears a Wooo!!! said:

Eh, I feel like putting Braun in the class of Undertaker or Vader is probably overestimating him.  LIke Brysynner said, a lot of it may be that he's programmed against Reigns.  He's going to struggle against in the WWE formula, which is generally to rocket heel monsters to the top, job them out to the ace babyface, then struggle to keep the monster over.

He's getting good crowd reactions, so they've got.... something with him.  He hasn't really convinced me that he's going to be a good-to-great worker or that he'll be a good promo, two things that could limit his long-term success.  I feel like he's probably the best big man right now in a down period for big men.  Whether or not that's enough for long-term success, I dunno.  If I had to guess, I'd wager his ceiling is well below Kane or Big Show's

I didn't mean to come off as saying he is at the same class as Taker or Vader but that he has the potential to be at that level right now and that he's currently in a good position to possible get to that level. Maybe he levels off and ends up in the Kane/Big Show territory which is still a good place to be career wise but if they are smart they could have a credible true monster on the roster for the next 10-15 years.

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17 minutes ago, Brysynner said:

It's a bad thing when people say you should be on the level of Hulk Hogan/Steve Austin/John Cena. But yeah I agree having a Big Show/Kane WWE career is not a bad thing at all, especially if you can remain healthy and save your money well.

Who is saying he should be on the level of Hogan/Austin/Cena? I don't think anyone reaches that level unless you figure out how to transplant Enzo's brain in Cass' body.

Now, other than Joe, there isn't anyone else in WWE who harkens back to Austin's mantra of "Arrive, Raise Hell, Leave." That's the formula if they want to keep Braun over whether if loses to someone or not. He needs to consistently arrive, raise hell, and then leave. I'd also say that there isn't anyone else in WWE at the moment who has the same aura that Braun has.

None of that means that he'll be the next big thing, but it's a recipe for success to give him as high or a higher ceiling that Big Show or Kane.

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