NJPW 2017 G1 Climax 27

[sevendaughters]

yeah I mean I don't think Kenny is unsafe or terrible but I stand by my mark because it was so uncomfortable in the post-Honma/Shibata world to the extent that any investment in the match (which I didn't really enjoy outside of the stunts, but whatever) was exploded. what that clip also misses is how absolutely fucked Watanabe looked on the floor as he was crawling to the corner. real shooters get better treatment after being laid out.

[Jenalysis]

It looks like Kenny compensated for him being out at least.  Probably should have just pinned him or cranked in some sort of low-effort sub so the ref can say he passed out, but I'm not going to call him super dangerous or anything due to that.

[Beech27]

So, I didn't stick around for Omega's backstage comments when I first watched the match. He basically uses them as a verbal subtweet of Ibushi, insisting his knee strikes are the best, the original (somehow?), etc. If that's the story you want to tell, it's yet another reason he should have just pinned Evil in the corner. Win with the knee, and avoid deadlifting a non compliant man onto your shoulders. Obviously wrestling is dangerous, and an athletic "main event" style is more so. But you'd expect better judgment, once an accident has happened, from a veteran who always insists he cares a great deal about safety, and values storytelling more than any of the athletic stunts. (Whether you believe this or not... depends.)

The consensus from "news" people does seem to be that Evil is ok, though who knows what that means, and if they're just parroting Meltzer. I hope he's better off than I could guess, since New Japan is still sending out tweets advertising his match against Okada. Doesn't look like he's going to miss time.

[EVA]

Setting aside how reckless it may have been, Omega deadlifting a guy of EVIL's size and executing a flawless OWA without any cooperation is a pretty amazing feat.

[EVA]

Okada/Tama was very similar to Okada's match with Sanada - the champ is back in with an undercard guy who hasn't really figured out how to work a big match yet, so BAD OKADA rears his head again.  This ended up being worse than the Sanada match, because Tama has even less to work with than him, so the finishing stretch is just endless RKO counter spam, almost to the point of parody.

Juice/Sanada, on the other hand, validated the Unified Theory of Juice's Selling Making Everyone Better.  Easily Sanada's best match of the tourney so far.  They also delivered the best obligatory 20-count tease of the tournament, probably the 1st one the crowds have legitimately bought as the finish.  It got a little finisher counter-y at the end, but it all came back to Juice's knee being the difference, so I call fair play.

[Jiji]

On 8/1/2017 at 3:32 PM, EVA said:

Yeesh, ZSJ/Makabe is near the top of my list for worst of the tournament so far.  I generally hate Makabe, but this was terrible even by his standards.  He was clearly displeased to be putting over the skinny Brit and went out there and sat on his ass for 10 minutes.  As a result, ZSJ really got nothing out of subbing one of the toughest guys on the roster.

And I really want to criticize ZSJ here, because he went back to a lot of the unfocused matwork that I always hate.  Now I work your leg!  Now I work your arm!  Now I work your neck!  It's a 10 minute match, man, pick one body part and go with it.  But I think he was just trying to do the best he could with what Makabe was giving him to work with.

From what I'm noticing, this is the prevailing style among the better mat technicians on the indies today. It's more of a general grinding down of an opponent than the traditional honing in on a body part (that is almost never sold in the final third of the match anyway). 

[Beech27]

This is a generalization too often invoked, but I think it's an mma influence thing. (Obviously the intersections of mma and pro wrestling have always been murkier in Japan. But.) Even casual fans are comfortable with the idea that submissions don't need to be set up, per se. You take what's available, and if you're clean, they tap.

[OSJ]

Re: Omega/Evil: Horrible, careless, and dangerous? No, probably not, questionable judgement on Kenny's part? Yes, certainly, simply rolling him in for the pin would have been just fine in the context of the story that was being told. 

Now here's a silly question for the board: Goto seems to get lots of hate on here and I'm not sure why. No, he's never going to be the ace of anything, but he's a perfectly good wrestler who on any given night can beat anyone. I won't say that I set my alarm when he's on TV like I do with Naito, but I sure don''t take a piss-break when he's on either. So, why the hate?

[Jiji]

Because there are better wrestlers that get fewer opportunities than Goto. He's fine but really doesn't tell interesting stories and has generic STRUNG STAIYUL emotion and doesn't stray from that. He's a generic NJPW create-a-wrestler.

[Ace]

4 hours ago, Beech27 said:

So, I didn't stick around for Omega's backstage comments when I first watched the match. He basically uses them as a verbal subtweet of Ibushi, insisting his knee strikes are the best, the original (somehow?), etc.

The knee bit is aimed towards Seth Rollins.

 

[Beech27]

43 minutes ago, Ace said:

The knee bit is aimed towards Seth Rollins.

 

I could see that, except he's been tweeting about Kota copying his knee strike since the G1 started, and responding to fans suggesting a connection. Maybe it'll never be booked in New Japan, but his social media seems dedicated to the "feud". Dude is still liking Golden Lovers fan art in 2017. Speaking of Twitter...

Not sure I buy it, but this is probably as close as we're getting to an official statement. 

[sevendaughters]

I think Goto's character is 'stoic', which has particular cultural resonances in Japan that might not come across super well to others. He is, in a sense, the vision of the good traditional Japanese warrior man of yore. This remains an important part of sumo and combat culture. Of course, particularly among the youth, things are changing which explains the uptake of flashy characters like Tanahashi and Okada. And sure this isn't reason enough to start liking him if you didn't already. But I think generic is unfair. AJ Styles doesn't crib the moves of generic workers. In search of a more compelling gimmick, maybe? Naito as a babyface didn't exactly light my fire.

[quackhell]

Probably the worst night of the tourney for me. I really enjoyed Juice/Sanada, but the rest especially those scary moments for EVIL made for a rough watch. 

[sevendaughters]

the DAVEs are in for days 7-11

7.26 Sendai Ishii vs YOSHI-HASHI: 3.75 / ZSJ vs Fale: 2.50 / Makabe vs Ibushi: 4.00 / Naito vs Nagata: 4.00 / Tanahashi vs Goto: 3.25
7.27 Niigata Tama Tonga vs Juice: 2.75 / SANADA vs Yano: 3.00 / EVIL vs Suzuki: 3.50 / Okada vs Kojima: 4.25 / Elgin vs Omega:4.75
7.29 Aichi Makabe vs Nagata: 3.50 / Fale vs Ibushi: 3.50 / Sabre Jr. vs Goto: 3.50 / Tanahashi vs YOSHI-HASHI: 3.75 / Ishii vs Naito: 4.50
7.30 Gifu EVIL vs Yano: 0.5 / Suzuki vs Tama Tonga: 3.5 / SANADA vs Elgin: 4.00 / Omega vs Kojima: 3.50 / Okada vs Juice: 3.50
8.1 Kagoshima YOSHI-HASHI vs Fale: 3.00 / Sabre Jr vs Makabe: 2.75 / Ishii vs Nagata: 4.50 / Naito vs Goto: 4.00 / Tanahashi vs Ibushi: 4.75

got to give the guy credit for absolutely loving the fuck out of the business after all these years.

[peterien]

Tanahashi/Nagata- didnt do it for me but i havent seen much Nagata matches so that could be a factor.

Juice/Suzuki- good match, thought it lost its way a small bit near the end but Juice continues to impress.

Omega/Suzuki- very good match. Again i thought they lost their way near the end but I was kept entertained throughout.

Tanahashi/Ibushi- outstanding. Tanahashi heeling it up at the start really added to this and it was great to see Ibushi get the win.

Top 3 matches for me so far;

Ishii/Ibushi. Ibushi/Tanahshi. Juice/Kojima

Top 3 performers;

Ibushi. Juice. Kojima.

Haven't seen the Kenny/Evil match in full but the aftermath of the V-trigger was a very uncomfortable watch.

 

[Jiji]

7 hours ago, sevendaughters said:

I think Goto's character is 'stoic', which has particular cultural resonances in Japan that might not come across super well to others. He is, in a sense, the vision of the good traditional Japanese warrior man of yore. This remains an important part of sumo and combat culture. Of course, particularly among the youth, things are changing which explains the uptake of flashy characters like Tanahashi and Okada. And sure this isn't reason enough to start liking him if you didn't already. But I think generic is unfair. AJ Styles doesn't crib the moves of generic workers. In search of a more compelling gimmick, maybe? Naito as a babyface didn't exactly light my fire.

And isn't bushido still a large part of the male Japanese approach to a great deal of endeavors? I don't even think stoic is the right word because he's constantly emoting fire (without seemingly really having any) and grunting. Shibata has or had fire. Goto... 

[Curt McGirt]

I've never gotten the Goto hate either (as I've said many times before). He's a stolid gatekeeper who has cool movez and can emote just fine to me. The fact that he'll only get like a one month IWGP run a la Nakanishi as a gold star for his service in like ten years time is kinda sad to me. And I think it is a crowd thing with flash with him, he even tried to spice up his image with the facepaint and new gear and the crowd shat on him for it. He works best as underdog but that's the only time the crowd gets into him, and that's a drag. His time kinda seems like it's already passed but he fills a role that New Japan needs. Not everybody can be on top after all. 

[Sublime]

I don't dislike Goto but I don't love him either. He's a good mid/uppermid card guy which are good to have in wrestling not everyone is a main eventer. To me, there is something about him that stops him from being great but he is definitely good-very good and has enjoyable matches with most opponents. If the roster for NJPW wasn't as stacked as it is right now I and others would probably value him higher. I guess he is a victim of the sheer amount of talent around him. With only so much time to watch wrestling I prioritize Naito, Okada, Omega, Takahashi, Kushida, EVIL, Elgin, Suzuki, Ishii, Ibushi, Yano (probably others) over wanting to watch Goto.

[Beech27]

I like Goto's matches, even if they are a bit "main event nouveau strong style 201". That's a very inarticulate phrasing of it, but I think anyone who watches enough New Japan arrives at something like that sense, whatever you call it. To me, this sort of work actually adds a dimension of character to his gatekeeper role--though perhaps it does so accidentally--insofar as the lesson we've been taught, from Tanahashi onward, is that being "strong style man" isn't enough to be the top guy, or even touch the IWGP title once. This gives his arc a degree of--yes, very Japanese--graceful futility, which I find compelling and frustrating at once. 

[EVA]

I was actually really enjoying Omega/EVIL until the end.  

From the very beginning, almost all the plunder seemed to be working against them.  The ringside mats didn't want to come up.  They kept getting tangled up in all the cords.  The normally steadfast Japanese tables wouldn't cooperate.  Maybe it's because I knew it ended badly ahead of time,  but the whole match really felt dangerous in the way that most of these types of matches generally don't, and it honestly made it more enjoyable to me.  It felt like two guys legitimately hurtling toward their own demise and they were just too nuts to stop, even with everything around them seemingly shouting STOP.

Like, even though you could never plan something like it,  the STO through the table turning gory actually felt like a payoff.  The plunder finally getting over on these guys after a match-long struggle.

[Pete]

2 hours ago, Sublime said:

I don't dislike Goto but I don't love him either. He's a good mid/uppermid card guy which are good to have in wrestling not everyone is a main eventer. To me, there is something about him that stops him from being great but he is definitely good-very good and has enjoyable matches with most opponents. If the roster for NJPW wasn't as stacked as it is right now I and others would probably value him higher. I guess he is a victim of the sheer amount of talent around him. With only so much time to watch wrestling I prioritize Naito, Okada, Omega, Takahashi, Kushida, EVIL, Elgin, Suzuki, Ishii, Ibushi, Yano (probably others) over wanting to watch Goto.

That's basically it. He's perfectly fine in a promotion where "perfectly fine" puts you just above "young lion" status with the Yujiros and TAICHIs of the world. He also comes off as the fifth wheel of CHAOS, which doesn't help either.

[John E. Dynamite]

Stoicism in puroresu begins and ends with Misawa. That ain't what Goto does; his shtick/aesthetic/vibe, as mentioned earlier, is some old timey samurai deal that my cultural conditioning didn't entirely explain. Also one of Goto's problems?  *THE BOOKING* Listen, I like-don't-love the guy. I realize his charismatic failings may be what kept him out of a IWGP reign. But do you really think booking the guy to lose eight straight IWGP Heavyweight title matches was gonna help the way he's perceived? There was that period where you had the Mutoh, Makabe, Kojima and Nakanishi runs that weren't that long ago. There were some very important reigns for Nakamura and Tanahashi around that time but also some short ones for both. Goto was a lot more credible then, still viewed as the proper third New Muskateer (since Shibata was MIA and Okada wasn't a thing). I think NJPW missed the boat and it wasn't entirely fair to the guy. Some have compared him to Chono in the sense that he's more of a tournament guy, but Chono had his role as a stable leader to fall back on. At least he isn't Tenzan.

[SolidGoldBomb]

Omega vs EVIL was awesome, especially the last few minutes.  I thought it was one of the best matches of Block B so far, and definitely the best EVIL match i've seen, my respect for him went way up after that match.  It was a statement match, everyone knew this was going to be the match where either Omega wins and heads to the last day for his showdown with Okada, or maybe EVIL gets the big win and takes Omega's spot to setup a match with Naito.  To me that was a decisive match for the whole G1, and both guys put it all on the line and were fighting for their tournament lives out there, and it was amazing.  This is the life they chose to live, and all you people feigning sympathy for EVIL and saying fuck Omega are hilarious.  These guys have volunteered to take ass whippings like this their whole careers, and they love what they do, this is just another day at the office.  I certainly don't want to see anyone else Shibata themselves, so I can agree with no crazy headbutts like that, but this match was no more "disgusting" or "shocking" or whatever outrageous adjective you want to use, than practically every single other NJPW & G1 match so far this year.  THAT is their Strong Style.  If your sensitive sensibilities can't take watching it anymore don't blame Omega, but maybe you should go watch some anime or find a more peaceful hobby where no one ever gets hurt. 

[Raziel]

[Beech27]

I liked the match. I like it more if we believe, as Omega has implied, that the concussion was a work. (We can argue whether such an angle is in good taste, but it's better than a legitimate injury.) Regardless, I don't think anyone is expressing false sympathy. I love wrestling, but there's a threshold of violence/safety I'd rather not see crossed. In my opinion, if someone is concussed such that they're no longer capable of cooperation, the consent that makes pro wrestling a work functionally no longer exists. If you don't want to see someone shoot-headbutt themselves into the hospital and retirement, as Shibata did, then you have a threshold also. We just draw the line at different places.