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JUNE 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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Most of you will have a knee-jerk reaction depending on your opinion of the bloke, but, devil's advocate, has the Miz become the quintessential intercontinental champion?

When I see or hear 'intercontinental champion' the main names that spring to mind are Mr Perfect, Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon

I think the Miz has certainly made that title his own and deserves to be remembered with the belt just as much as those guys

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Miz is the best IC champ since it stopped meaning anything. No one can overcome what's been done to the title and really make it relevant again, but if there was someone that could on the roster it would be him.  

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23 minutes ago, (BP) said:

Miz is the best IC champ since it stopped meaning anything. No one can overcome what's been done to the title and really make it relevant again, but if there was someone that could on the roster it would be him.  

Is Miz better then the Honky Tonk Man???

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So in terms of like, transcendental heroes of wrestling, I know in the US it's Hogan, Austin and the Rock, In Japan it's Rikidozan and maybe Tsuruta, and in Mexico it's El Santo ... did the UK/Europe have a figure like that? I've heard of Big Daddy as being huge in his time. 

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Yeah he was the only comparable one because the show was built around him ala all those other names. Big Daddy put butts in seats but also killed the business (one of many contributing factors in his defence) to the point that we're only now in the midst of a resurgence here

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11 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Here is Bix's article on how Frank Deford basically legitimized Dave Meltzer

http://deadspin.com/how-frank-deford-helped-pro-wrestling-journalism-become-1795783697

Here's a link to the part of Deford's book where he tells the story of bowling with McMahon and Patterson

https://books.google.com/books?id=YPC8-gH45NoC&lpg=PT105&ots=GD6AdekUMh&dq=frank deford vince mcmahon dick&pg=PT104#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

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2 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

Most of you will have a knee-jerk reaction depending on your opinion of the bloke, but, devil's advocate, has the Miz become the quintessential intercontinental champion?

When I see or hear 'intercontinental champion' the main names that spring to mind are Mr Perfect, Shawn Michaels and Razor Ramon

I think the Miz has certainly made that title his own and deserves to be remembered with the belt just as much as those guys

Seeing how the IC title stopped being the springboard to bigger things a long time ago, Miz is a fine representation of that. He had his world title run, failed, and has settled to where he should be. The IC title is like the participation award. We don't want to give you the real award, but here, have this smaller award that has no real value.

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3 minutes ago, Infinit said:

Wait....Nice Guy Eddie is Vince Russo???

That depends.  Does Vince also like Pantera and work in the funeral business?  If not then Eddie's off the hook.

Though one good test is to bring up to Russo a relatively obscure Seinfeld reference and see if he gets it.

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5 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

How's he supposed to do the Slammy Award dance in that?

Simple, everyone else gives him lots of room. They Stand Back.

 

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The Miz is fine, a guy who gets over on this board because he gets to cut shoot promos in a time where they heavily script most people. 

He doesn't have any iconic actual matches, with his U.S. Championship match against Bryan coming closest, and he definitely doesn't have one as IC champ.

I wouldn't put him with a guy like Perfect, and Perfect was broken by the time he actually got to WWF and ended up working on a shitty back for the '90s. Perfect also has at least one classic match as IC champ with the Hitman.

Razor is a straight up better worker than Miz and has multiple classics for the IC title with one guy (HBK). 

Repeat that last sentence for Michaels, except put Razor's name in parentheses. Michaels also somehow had a legit great match with Jeff "dependable in the ring but I can't remember any of his matches except for this one" Jarrett for the IC title. Miz ain't having a great match with Jarrett at any time or place in this or any other universe. 

Who else we got here as great IC champs? Hitman? Steamboat? Savage? The Rock, maybe? Jericho? Miz surpasses none of them.

I'd stick Miz at Kofi Kingston/Edge level as far as IC champs go. 

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3 hours ago, Shibata Is My Homie said:

Is Miz better then the Honky Tonk Man???

Nooo

Honky is very underrated. From his time in Memphis to when his heel run started. The Mania match with Jake was really good and on a show without Savage/Steamboat would be best of the night. I love the Savage feud since they merged together perfectly. The good thing with Honky was you could turn any heel face against him. 

Both Beefcake and Warrior improved greatly working with him. 

I was watching the TV and I think he could have turned face in 89/90 and been over. He was so good at doing his schtick and I think people appreciate that. 

Most people don't realize Honky's reign was barely a month longer than Savage's. I would probably say Savage is the greatest IC champion of all time. Based on the feuds with Tito and Steamboat. Though he spent a lotta time chasing Hogan which might cost him points. 

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Yeah, there is zero chance that Miz ever surpasses Honky as a worker. For one, Honky is way better at stooging. Miz is shitty at doing stoogey heel tactics. He wrestles like he's an elite talent or some shit. No, Miz, you're a decent worker with a punchable face who needs to stall, stooge off, and bump and sell like a maniac rather than having 50/50 "classics" with Dolph goddam Ziggler. 

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6 minutes ago, Smelly McUgly said:

Yeah, there is zero chance that Miz ever surpasses Honky as a worker. For one, Honky is way better at stooging. Miz is shitty at doing stoogey heel tactics. He wrestles like he's an elite talent or some shit. No, Miz, you're a decent worker with a punchable face who needs to stall, stooge off, and bump and sell like a maniac rather than having 50/50 "classics" with Dolph goddam Ziggler. 

He just needs to get beat up for ten minutes then cheat to win. 

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16 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Personally, I think the IC Championship's last great champion was Owen in '97. He was everything you wanted in a heel champion. Sneaky, ducking everyone and cheating his way to victory. 

Miz ain't any if that. 

Word.  i was going to check Wikipedia to see the exact time the IC title stopped meaning something but I absolutely lost the will.  It was definitely sometime in the late 90s, the same time all the belts became meaningless hot potatoes.  I remember being blown away when guys won the IC belt for the 2nd or 3rd time.  The fact that The Miz has held it 7 times is a testament to something, and it's not how great a champion he is.

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