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Marvel Cinematic Universe - 2019 and Beyond


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2 minutes ago, Casey said:

ITT “certain things must be comic book accurate or I hate it!”

What do you expect? It's the same person who thinks this...

On 3/8/2019 at 4:22 AM, TheVileOne said:

It's bad and most people are forcing themselves to like it because the first movie was so beloved. They didn't do a good job.

I'll be nice and refrain from quoting anything from the MMA folder.

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3 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

"Stans" really needs to go away. It's really terrible and isn't going to hold up.

 Or, we take it back in honor of Stan Lee. I'm a Stan for  mustaches and alliterative names!

It's been around for 15+ years now man, it has a shot. Speaking of Stan Lee I know I'm going to be more than a little choked up when we see Capt. Marvel tomorrow, his part in Spiderverse was tremendous.  

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I know the term has existed since the song. It's just recently I've been overwhelmed with "STANS" as a term that people who should know better are including in shit I read and listen to. I don't care for it. ?

Edited by Johnny Sorrow
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I actually liked how they did the Supreme Intelligence in Captain Marvel, especially since they left for the potential for the giant green head open. It would have been nice to see, but with the time Carol was gone hopefully we get sequels focused on her fight with the Kree where get the giant head reveal.

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Looking forward to the Marvel Phase Four announcement like we had for Phase Three in October of 2014.

Black Widow, the third film in the Spider-Man Home series, Doctor Strange 2 and Black Panther 2. There's also X-Men, Fantastic Four and a new Avengers movie.

Edited by The Natural
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On ‎3‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 8:40 PM, John Austin said:

Not complaining, but I was expecting that Supreme Intelligence not the one we got. 

You mean the one we got with the great ass?  Holy fuck, but Annette Benning can fill out a pair of jeans, can't she?

Now that I have gotten the Cibernetico crap out of the way, Captain Marvel was a movie.  Not great, but not horrible either.

The thing that kept me interested were the constant callbacks.

Spoiler
  1. How Nick Fury lost his eye.
  2. How the Avengers got their name from Carol's Air Force call sign..
  3. Ronan and Korath making their appearances.
  4. How the Tessaract got into SHIELD's possession at the beginning of The Avengers movie.
  5. Monica Rambeau / Photon.

I figured out about halfway that:

Spoiler

there would be some twist and that the Skrulls would end up being protagonists rather than the perennial bad guys that they are in the comics.

but the movie masked that part nicely for the non-initiated.

For a girl power movie, this thing was a little toothless though.  Carol is noble and tough and smart and all, but the movie was kinda burdened by lack of character development and a dearth of quality opposition.

I did mark out for Carol's Raiders Of The Lost Ark inspired showdown with Yon-Rogg.  The entire theater exploded with laughter.

The tribute to Stan in the opening credits was also a nice touch and his cameo made me happy and sad at the same time.

I also like the fact that:

Spoiler

Carol spared Yon-Rogg.  You knew that Ronan was going to survive because he is killed in GoTG, but it was nice to see Carol show some mercy and just send his punk ass packing rather than vaporize him on the spot.

I am digging Marvel's recent trend of heroes doing heroic things like capturing bad guys rather than just killing them.

This did not feel like a step forward as far as Marvel Studios being on a good run goes, but it wasn't a step back to like Thor, Iron Man 3, or Incredible Hulk or anything.  I just hope that Captain Marvel has more to do in Endgame than she did in this movie.

Much love to whomever picked out the songs for the soundtrack.  So much 90's nostalgia.  It was and Awesome Mix Vol. 3 made for my generation.

Edited by J.T.
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41 minutes ago, J.T. said:

You mean the one we got with the great ass?  Holy fuck, but Annette Benning can fill out a pair of jeans, can't she?

Now that I have gotten the Cibernetico crap out of the way, Captain Marvel was a movie.  Not great, but not horrible either.

The thing that kept me interested were the constant callbacks.

  Hide contents
  1. How Nick Fury lost his eye.
  2. How the Avengers got their name from Carol's Air Force call sign..
  3. Ronan and Korath making their appearances.
  4. How the Tessaract got into SHIELD's possession at the beginning of The Avengers movie.
  5. Monica Rambeau / Photon.

I figured out about halfway that:

  Hide contents

there would be some twist and that the Skrulls would end up being protagonists rather than the perennial bad guys that they are in the comics.

but the movie masked that part nicely for the non-initiated.

For a girl power movie, this thing was a little toothless though.  Carol is noble and tough and smart and all, but the movie was kinda burdened by lack of character development and a dearth of quality opposition.

I did mark out for Carol's Raiders Of The Lost Ark inspired showdown with Yon-Rogg.  The entire theater exploded with laughter.

The tribute to Stan in the opening credits was also a nice touch and his cameo made me happy and sad at the same time.

I also like the fact that:

  Hide contents

Carol spared Yon-Rogg.  You knew that Ronan was going to survive because he is killed in GoTG, but it was nice to see Carol show some mercy and just send his punk ass packing rather than vaporize him on the spot.

I am digging Marvel's recent trend of heroes doing heroic things like capturing bad guys rather than just killing them.

This did not feel like a step forward as far as Marvel Studios being on a good run goes, but it wasn't a step back to like Thor, Iron Man 3, or Incredible Hulk or anything.  I just hope that Captain Marvel has more to do in Endgame than she did in this movie.

Much love to whomever picked out the songs for the soundtrack.  So much 90's nostalgia.  It was and Awesome Mix Vol. 3 made for my generation.

Re the callbacks:

 

I didn't like 1 or 2.

4: In the post-credits scene from Thor (2011), Nick Fury calls Erik Selvig in for the Tesseract's potential and Loki speaks through Selvig saying "I guess that's worth a look." In Captain America: The First Avenger (2011), young Howard Stark is looking for Captain America's body and find the Tesseract. So Howard Stark comes across the Tesseract in Captain America: The First Avenger (2011), it's acquired in Captain Marvel (2019) set in 1995 and then the post credits scene of Thor (2011) goes into Avengers Assemble (2012).

Edited by The Natural
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I thought Captain Marvel was good but it falls short of my top ten MCU movies. To be honest, #12-13. The film had it's moments with the Skrulls infiltration causing paranoia and seeing a Nick Fury different to the one we know. The tribute to Stan Lee was perfect. Like I said before the movie came out, cosmic MCU isn't my thing. Still liked Captain Marvel but not as others are.

Edited by The Natural
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Well, re: the Macguffin,

Spoiler

The Tesseract was never really *not* in SHIELD's possession.  Mar-Vell just knew what SHIELD had before they did, and she, uh, borrowed it.  For six years.  On a cloaked base.  She was totally going to give it back, but she got got.  There's nothing in the film that indicates that Mar-Vell "found" it in the way, say, Star-Lord found the Power Gem.  Far more likely she infiltrated SHIELD, earned some trust, showed them some "tech" and got access.

(Granted, I would have actually liked it quite a bit if the Tesseract had vanished and been re-discovered, because, hey, how cool would it be if the Infinity Gems had a little bit of their own agency and wanted to disappear themselves, like Daedric artifacts in the Elder Scrolls games?  But, that's neither here nor there.)

It would also explain why the PEGASUS bunch was such an uptight group - not for covering up the accident with Carol (or not only), but losing Big Toy # 1, and anyone in SHIELD with the clearance to poke around and ask about the Tesseract would *already know it was gone* so WTF are Fury & Carol doing there, etc.

 

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53 minutes ago, Contentious C said:

Well, re: the Macguffin,

  Reveal hidden contents

The Tesseract was never really *not* in SHIELD's possession.  Mar-Vell just knew what SHIELD had before they did, and she, uh, borrowed it.  For six years.  On a cloaked base.  She was totally going to give it back, but she got got.  There's nothing in the film that indicates that Mar-Vell "found" it in the way, say, Star-Lord found the Power Gem.  Far more likely she infiltrated SHIELD, earned some trust, showed them some "tech" and got access.

(Granted, I would have actually liked it quite a bit if the Tesseract had vanished and been re-discovered, because, hey, how cool would it be if the Infinity Gems had a little bit of their own agency and wanted to disappear themselves, like Daedric artifacts in the Elder Scrolls games?  But, that's neither here nor there.)

It would also explain why the PEGASUS bunch was such an uptight group - not for covering up the accident with Carol (or not only), but losing Big Toy # 1, and anyone in SHIELD with the clearance to poke around and ask about the Tesseract would *already know it was gone* so WTF are Fury & Carol doing there, etc.

 

The problem with that theory is:

Spoiler

accepting things at face value, why would SHIELD be investigating something they already knew about?  Why go to Project PEGASUS for answers when you could simply get your answers at SHIELD HQ?

You could make the argument that SHIELD did know, but that info hadn't filtered down to Nick's current pay grade so he went rogue with Carol to find out shit he shouldn't have been poking his nose into in the first place.

I would tend to believe that SHIELD was in the dark about PEGASUS, because that would explain Talos having to rely on Fury to gather information.  They kinda beat us over the head with the plot device that Skrull shapeshifting does not give them long term memories of what their target knows.

Talos could take the form of a PEGASUS staff member (provided he had access to one) and still not know shit about what really went on at the facility.

It was interesting to note that Talos was lying to Carol and Fury about looking for the lightspeed engine because he didn't know how much he could trust them.

Talos was looking for his family the entire time, not Mar-Vell's tech.  There was no finding the lightspeed engine because it was already operational and installed on Mar-Vell's lab starship.

The plot hole I had trouble with:

Spoiler

The thing that did not make sense was why Fury and Carol were allowed into the PEGASUS facility only to be detained.  If you're trying to cover something up, why don't you just say "Piss off!" and send them back where they came from? 

By the time they arrive with a warrant, you should've already destroyed all relevant info and moved locations, right?

Even simpler, anyone that knows anything about info classification is familiar with the concept of "need to know."  Need to know means that you respect that the information is kept separate from your pay grade to protect national security. 

The appropriate response if you are a government employee is to safeguard the information; not to worm even deeper.

Fury does what we expect a movie spy to do in a film with a conspiracy at the heart of the plot but that is totally not what a responsible government employee would do.

Edited by J.T.
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6 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Eleven years later, Iron Man continues to be the best origin film in the MCU and is still in my top five when ranking the MCU movies.

That is probably true since everyone seems to have learned from how Nolan handled the Joker in TDK, so most introductions to super heroes and villains these days are in medias res encounters with fully fleshed out characters rather than origin tales.

We already know how Spider-Man got his powers and why Batman pursues a never ending vendetta against criminals.

No need to keep reinventing the wheel.

Edited by J.T.
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6 minutes ago, J.T. said:

That is probably true since everyone seems to have learned from how Nolan handled the Joker in TDK, so most introductions to super heroes and villains these days are in medias res encounters with fully fleshed out characters rather than origin tales.

The only comic book origin movies I'd have above Iron Man is Batman Begins (2005) and Batman: Mask of the Phantasm (1993) with Batman Begins on top spot. Love all of Batman Begins, more so that first hour. Always had a thing for origin stories be it films or books where it all started.

Edited by The Natural
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57 minutes ago, J.T. said:

The plot hole I had trouble with:

  Hide contents

 

Fury does what we expect a movie spy to do in a film with a conspiracy at the heart of the plot but that is totally not what a responsible government employee would do.

While I understand where this is coming from, that cat is out of the bag by, ohhhhhh....50 years.  Thanks, Captain Kirk.  And just because the movie has a "cat" isn't a reason to put the metaphorical one back.

Also, I now want a Blake Bortles Facts-style feed called "Nicholas J. Fury, Responsible Government Employee".

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34 minutes ago, J.T. said:

That is probably true since everyone seems to have learned from how Nolan handled the Joker in TDK, so most introductions to super heroes and villains these days are in medias res encounters with fully fleshed out characters rather than origin tales.

We already know how Spider-Man got his powers and why Batman pursues a never ending vendetta against criminals.

No need to keep reinventing the wheel.

Didn't the Joker originally show up in the comics with no origin story though? I  think the whole TDK thing of him giving multiple explanations for his history was a nod to the comic book Joker's history being shouted in mystery.

Also, Wolverine just showed up and fought the Hulk once, then eventually joined the X Men and so on, but he had no actual origin (further back than the Weapon X stuff, I mean) for decades. Then they gave him one and it was a bit rubbish.

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14 minutes ago, Contentious C said:

While I understand where this is coming from, that cat is out of the bag by, ohhhhhh....50 years.  Thanks, Captain Kirk.  And just because the movie has a "cat" isn't a reason to put the metaphorical one back.

The cat is out of the bag so to speak for us comic nerds.  Captain Marvel is still a relatively obscure character as was evident by there being as much WTF~? as HOLY SHIT~! reactions to the final credit cutscene from Infinity War.

There was enough unfamiliarity there to warrant a new cat and a new bag.

11 minutes ago, AxB said:

Didn't the Joker originally show up in the comics with no origin story though? I  think the whole TDK thing of him giving multiple explanations for his history was a nod to the comic book Joker's history being shouted in mystery.

While that is true, we're still talking about a movie audience mixed with people whose familiarity with characters can really be varied as opposed to kids reading comic books and automatically buying in to the mythology.

As far as TDK goes, I think the Joker being introduced the manner he appeared was due to Nolan's (understandable) rejection of the relative silliness of the Joker's chemical bath origin story.

Even The Killing Joke makes fun of the Joker's origin while still maintaining his terrifying persona. 

Nolan borrows from TKJ's theme of the Joker being so fucked up that even he has no idea how he got started on the path he's on by giving TDK Joker multiple and varying stories about how he got his Glasgow smile.

Edited by J.T.
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I don't think that really has anything to do with Carol or anyone's familiarity, or lack thereof.  I think plenty of people who simply consume media are going to pick up on "the leader takes the biggest risks and often is a PITA to his bureaucratic superiors, who are usually lying liars who lie to us" being a fairly standard TV/movie trope at this stage.  And rightfully so.  The expectations of "we're going to the movies" and "movies are written by screenwriters" will always override what would happen in reality.

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