Craig H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Did @Raziel403 really accuse us of moving the goalposts? Really?! You continue doing the same. We keep having to point out that no one wants her to have the longest title reign, that no one is saying she's the best wrestler, etc. That's not the point. Like Jae put pretty simply, maybe, MAYBE, we'd just like to see her booked remotely better than she is now because what they're doing with her now is garbage. And after her, what does that leave us with? NIA JAX?! Ok. I would say Sasha Banks, but she's mired in "we don't have anything for you so we'll stick you with a 205 guy for now" territory. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, El Dragon said: I would love some examples of John Cena, Rock, or Punk being booked so poorly as being a complete moron. Fuck, the biggest booking blunder Cena ever had to deal with pre becoming a main eventer was, what, the Carlito feud? What was Punks god awful booking? Rock and Miz were kinda shitty then got good, not bookings fault they were not over when they were shotty. To be fair, Punk had one losing feud after another. Then he got stuck leading the retread Nexus, which really went nowhere, especially when you consider that the Pipe Bomb promo happened when he was still the supposed leader of that group. Until the Pipe Bomb, he was just meandering around from one feud to another. The difference with Punk is that he's one of the few guys to say that he's going to go off of bullet points and say what he wants instead of reciting a script. Not everyone is like that though, and I certainly wouldn't expect Bayley to have the guts to say "fuck you, I'm going to do what I want" to Vince. Regarding Aries, he did send a tweet out saying something to the effect of being done with challenging for the title and being at a crossroads. I wonder if he's injured or if his contract is up. LET THE AKIRA TOZAWA ERA BEGIN! AHH! AHH! AHH! AHH! AHH! AHH! AHH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamal Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 2 minutes ago, Craig H said: Did @Raziel403 really accuse us of moving the goalposts? Really?! You continue doing the same. We keep having to point out that no one wants her to have the longest title reign, that no one is saying she's the best wrestler, etc. That's not the point. Like Jae put pretty simply, maybe, MAYBE, we'd just like to see her booked remotely better than she is now because what they're doing with her now is garbage. And after her, what does that leave us with? NIA JAX?! Ok. I would say Sasha Banks, but she's mired in "we don't have anything for you so we'll stick you with a 205 guy for now" territory. Mickie James, which is not going to be good. And yeah, I'm hardly a Bayley super fan but I know she's over and I know she can deliver (she's the only one so far that has had a decent match out of Alexa since she made the main roster). But the booking? Man, it has not been kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I'm beginning to think that the whole plan is to have the entire women's roster turn heel which fits the crazy old man's vision of all women being untrustworthy and inherently evil. Yes, Vince fears the vagina. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 27 minutes ago, Cristobal said: The Rock had shitty booking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Then he went away due to an injury, came back repackaged, joined the Nation, and the rest is history. That is not the same as overcoming bad booking and bad creative. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, Overly Critical Man said: Yeah they pushed the Blue Chipper too hard to begin with and he couldn't carry that load. When it wasn't working, they turned him heel, put him in a stable with vets he could learn from, given a role where his strengths shined and his weaknesses minimized, he eventually became leader of that stable, and was steadily pushed to bigger and better things before becoming one of the pillars of the company. Seriously, the Rock is arguably the best-booked wrestler the WWE has ever had. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireThunder Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 hour ago, jaedmc said: That was cooler than ANOTHER PHOENIX SPLASH. I feel like that move is everywhere. I did a count last night: five suicide dives through the ropes. Can we give that move a rest as well? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Very few people overcome bad booking. I wouldn't say that the Rock did since he was repackaged, but I think Austin maybe qualifies. Even then, he didn't do shit with that Ringmaster gimmick. It wasn't until he hinted at purposely losing to Savio Vega to get rid of Ted DiBiase that he ditched that gimmick and started becoming Stone Cold. Daniel Bryan qualifies I think because look at what happened after losing in 13 seconds at WrestleMania. Christian is kind of another since he had the losing streak gimmick that never works, but again, he left and went to TNA, came back, and didn't get booked like shit. Point is, there aren't many people on that list. It's unfair to say "if such and such is so good then they should overcome bad booking." You can only do so much. Here's an idea, maybe don't book people like shit to begin with. Worse than 50/50, I can't stand WWE's whole putting wrestlers through the ringer routine where they see how bulletproof someone is. Why not just book them strong to begin with or if you're going to cool someone off, then cool them off. Don't put them on ice. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Just now, FireThunder said: I did a count last night: five suicide dives through the ropes. Can we give that move a rest as well? YES. Oh my goodness. We said it last Monday, but Hojo can't do an elbow and three guys can do a Phoenix Splash or more than that can do the dive through the ropes? More than the repetitiveness, it's the danger of that dive through the ropes. It's just dumb. Save it for big, blowoff matches and maybe have it once per show instead of multiple times per show. It's just every time I see it I think someone is going to catch their foot on the rope and spear their head into the ground or the person on the outside is going to ole them into the barricade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 You'd think Seth Rollins would either pull a "main event guy" card on the rest of the roster and get his moves protected OR stop doing moves everyone already did on the midcard. His Frog Splash gets a great reaction. Better than his Phoenix which he pretty much never hits, and usually uses only to expose his poor knee selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Someone else other than Seth and KO on the current roster uses the Frog Splash and I can't remember who. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 hour ago, OSJ said: R. Lionel Fanthorpe wrote somewhere on the order of sixty-five sf novels that made sense (sort of), doesn't mean that they were any good. Fair enough, but making basic sense is a rarer commodity in pro wrestling and hence more valuable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 God I hope we get Joe v Necro Butcher for the WWE with Brock and Joe. Just as insanely violent and brutal as they can be... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godfrey Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 I'm an Alexa fan (and not really a Bayley one) but even I'm a little weary of this Bliss megapush. Maybe they just want to strike while the iron is hot, but it's a lot for someone so young who can't really back it up in the ring. The women's division was bound to take a step down from the Sasha/Charlotte series because that was such a high mark, but meandering mid-card angle isn't the best position to be in. Maybe they're just killing time before heading into Sasha/Bayley again. Count my hopes officially high for Joe/Lesnar, with the full realization that said hopes may be completely dashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Raziel403 said: Boy, there are some really shitty takes from people not ready to admit that Bayley just isn't that good and was largely a product of 15-16 NXT's Smoke and Mirrors. Next to Asuka, Bayley is the best woman on the roster. But she also has some goofy selling issues holding her back. From her absolute refusal to show anger to her goofy milking of moments like picking up the cane last night. But what an ass. But she is worlds better than Alexa and her three facial expressions, no selling and wooden Trish Stratus promos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Craig H said: To be fair, Punk had one losing feud after another. Then he got stuck leading the retread Nexus, which really went nowhere, especially when you consider that the Pipe Bomb promo happened when he was still the supposed leader of that group. Until the Pipe Bomb, he was just meandering around from one feud to another. He did get a featured match with Orton at Mania. He did not really start meandering until it seemed he was giving notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 As far as "Alexa isn't getting anyone over but herself", she's had three feuds. vs. Becky (Designed to get Alexa over, they trade wins and Alexa cheats to win the blowoff) vs. Naomi (Designed to get Naomi over, she goes over Alexa clean three straight times) vs. Bayley (Designed to put Alexa back over on a new brand coming off the losses to Naomi, and a clean loss to Mickie on SD in between) It's not like she's been on some streak beating everyone in sight.. As far as "OMG Bayley has been buried into oblivion by this horrible booking!" She hasn't even been on the main roster for a year and she has already -Won the women's championship -Ended Charlotte's PPV streak -Successfully defended it at WrestleMania against the top three challengers. Now because she's on the losing end of ONE FEUD for the first time, she's buried beyond repair? But Bayley isn't accused of "not getting anyone over but herself".. I am looking forward to other combinations and think an eventual Alexa/Sasha series could be pretty good. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 hour ago, El Dragon said: I would love some examples of John Cena, Rock, or Punk being booked so poorly as being a complete moron. Fuck, the biggest booking blunder Cena ever had to deal with pre becoming a main eventer was, what, the Carlito feud? What was Punks god awful booking? Rock and Miz were kinda shitty then got good, not bookings fault they were not over when they were shotty. The right answer to this is The Ringmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Without getting to deeply into the arguments here: Bayley is a very, very shitty promo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 That is why she should not be put in that position. And its not that Bayley lost last night. She has won enough this year, It is that she lost in a way that made her look like garbage, She should have caned the tar out of Alexa and then let Alexa cheat or something. That gets Alexa heel heat and protects Bayley. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 15 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said: The right answer to this is The Ringmaster. Was the Ringmaster that bad, It had a ceiling, but seemed like a fine upper midcard gimmick with the million dollar belt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 The Ringmaster had no heat, no personality, and no direction. Austin was barely treading water. His biggest feud was with Savio f'n Vega. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamBroken Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 28 minutes ago, Victator said: But she is worlds better than Alexa and her three facial expressions, no selling and wooden Trish Stratus promos. When I think no selling, I think Bayley popping up to hit the bayley to belly after repeated kendo stick shots last night... or blowing off Sasha stomping her "possibly broken hand" at NXT Brooklyn to simply reverse into her own submission. So I'd imagine any instance of that as a negative could go both ways, and as mentioned knocking her promos while putting Bayley over as so much better is no good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 8 minutes ago, DreamBroken said: When I think no selling, I think Bayley popping up to hit the bayley to belly after repeated kendo stick shots last night... or blowing off Sasha stomping her "possibly broken hand" at NXT Brooklyn to simply reverse into her own submission. So I'd imagine any instance of that as a negative could go both ways, and as mentioned knocking her promos while putting Bayley over as so much better is no good. Three of these expressions are the same. Or is this a Zoolander deal? Bayley sold the cane shots after hitting it. Hell I think she sold it more than Alexa did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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