Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Twin Peaks


Casey

Recommended Posts

It's like they fit all of the satisfaction in episode 17 and gave none in the last one. The flashback stuff was incredible. All of 17 was top drawer stuff and weird. 18 felt more like the rest of the series. I'm gonna spend the next hour or two reading theories i guess. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, Mrs. Tremond... 

And Sarah Palmer is Judy right? And the return to the South makes sense linking back to episode 8 and the bug in the girl's mouth (Sarah?). Just some ideas. But as the Vox columnist said, the show isn't all that interested in a coherent story and more about emotions and maybe probing the human psyche. 

Man, the various writers at Vox did such a magnificent job doing their best to hypothesize throughout the past few months, and their piece on the conclusion may be their best. 

Lynch has always been like this dating back to Eraserhead. He ends on divergent notes rather than convergent, ribbon wrapped endings. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't help but feel a little disappointed... more so at the fact that pieces were brought into play and then dropped (Audrey, Sarah/Mother/Judy) than anything else.

That final episode was quite jarring and its implications I'm struggling to get my head around. With the Cooper overlay in the sheriff's dept I assumed that signified he was the dreamer and none of the series ever happened, attested by the fact he saved Laura from her fate (the impetus for every episode we've watched) only for her to be snatched away somewhere else.

I had an inkling Cooper was bringing Laura (the light) to confront Sarah (darkness) from elsewhere as time and again we were told Laura was the key. Then that final scene and... I dunno.

I could have handled them leaving it on a cliffhanger again, after all that's one reason it stayed in the public consciousness for so long, but the way they did that and the lack of implication as to what it meant I just find a bit galling. Whatever she whispered to him before she was snatched away in that first episode obviously shocked and upset Cooper, and that's the final image we're left with.

I'd like one more episode please.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

someone on 4chan (for clarity, I don't post there) posited that Laura is the dreamer and the action unfolds in her dream and is a dream that gives her life significance in the face of the abuse she's suffered. it's the kind of simple analysis that i am resistant to - not least because of all the things that happened independent of her existence or the flip between dramatic object in the original series and dramatic subject in the film - as i'm just generally fine with non-sequitur and irresolution. but the theory does at least go beyond simple scrutiny.

i get it if people are upset that Chekhov's Gun has been flouted with, say, Sarah seeming to have a hell-portal in her face or Audrey waking up in a white room and neither being developed - or that the idea we were asked to invest their emotional energy in Cooper as a white knight against the darkness and it actually just collapsing in neither heroic victory or glorious defeat. it's tough to deal with.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nah, that's far too straight a reading in my opinion. I think everything happened but that it was changed, and I think the clue to that lies in the Phillip Jefferies scene.

It all felt very Mulholland Drive in the last episode. I need to brew a pot of coffee and think on it some more. I won't say I disliked it but I needed something more from it if that makes sense

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's the fact everything seemed like it was on its way to being wrapped up that has left me feeling so uneasy I think. Cooper appears to save the day and knows exactly what he has to do, who everyone is, what's going on. Then, yeah. 430. Linda and Richard. Two birds with one stone. Time and time again. I really want to know when that scene takes place with the Fireman that the season opened with because it doesn't seem to fit anywhere other than as a post script

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We got our fan service in Part 17, when everything was seemingly good and right within Twin Peaks. Part 18 is more or less a reset of everything, and is an entirely new world where no one is who they were.

"Everything could be different when we crossover". And it is. That's it, that's all you need. Those that wanted a nice little ending all wrapped up neatly, you got it (for the most part). But David Lynch is gonna David Lynch, and he has to upset the status quo. And you get a brand new Twin Peaks timeline/world shortly after, because Cooper still wants to save Laura Palmer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Casey said:

We got our fan service in Part 17, when everything was seemingly good and right within Twin Peaks. Part 18 is more or less a reset of everything, and is an entirely new world where no one is who they were.

"Everything could be different when we crossover". And it is. That's it, that's all you need. Those that wanted a nice little ending all wrapped up neatly, you got it (for the most part). But David Lynch is gonna David Lynch, and he has to upset the status quo. And you get a brand new Twin Peaks timeline/world shortly after, because Cooper still wants to save Laura Palmer.

17 wrapped up one storyline, and then 18 rewrapped it in a confounding way. Part of the appeal of getting a third season was finally getting the season two cliffhanger resolved, and now we're left with another cliffhanger, and several loose threads for characters outside of Cooper's story. Although none of their stories matter now that we have an all new Twin Peaks timeline! I guess the entire series never happened, aside from Cooper remembering it. Perhaps this was Lynch's way of erasing the bulk of season two that he hated. Unfortunately, everything else goes along with it. Or maybe this is just an alternate timeline and the one we know still exists and he could return to it? Unlikely that we'll ever find out.

Did anyone else feel like Cooper was being very Evil Cooper-like in the last episode? Most of the time he would just stare silently and grim-faced like his doppelganger, even while fucking Diane, and most times when he spoke it was in that emotionless, monotone voice. He seemed very much himself in the previous episode. I found that very confusing, though I suppose causing confusion is the point of this show.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just read the same idea in an article at Vulture:

Quote

Something is palpably off with Agent Cooper when we last see him — or, as he’s addressed in the note, “Richard.” His signature charm is replaced with the hardened demeanor of a man who doesn’t mind shooting sleazy cowboys in the feet. His passion with Diane during his sex scene is nonexistent. During his extended night-driving sequences, glimmers of Mr. C seem to flicker through his eyes. With an alternative dimension at play, perhaps a new environment changed his psyche and demeanor yet again — almost like a hybrid of Agent Cooper and Mr. C.

He seemed more Mr. C than Dale Cooper to me. Like three parts Mr. C to one part Dale. So we finally got to see him at 100%, briefly, only for that to be undone like everything else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That finale was trash. Like a bad episode of Doctor Who or one of those AU TV episodes.  It was hardly original, and it was done badly.   Also, just because it was done by Lynch doesn't mean it was unconventional either.  As others have pointed out the correlations here between this and the time travel nonsense in The Flash.

People are going to praise this just because it's David Lynch and Twin Peaks.  I refuse.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, sevendaughters said:

do I get it? no. but I felt something.

I too felt something: moderate irritation over the time I invested in this show.

I dunno.  i was a big Lynch fan 20 years ago.  Now it feels like an "emperor has no clothes' sort of thing where Lynch can film literally anything and people will praise it and look for the deeper meanings because it's David Lynch.  I don't really need or want every tv show to explain everything to me at the end of the season, and tie all the answers up with a nice bow, but I do want a strong narrative, internal logic, a sense of action and consequence.  I'm not really into weirdness for the sake of weirdness or shock endings that make no sense and change the game because those things are too easy.  It's a lot easier to be funny or shocking when you don't have to play within a narrative framework and are just throwing disjoined scenes up on the screen for your fans to ohhh and ahhh over.  It's a lot harder when you have to be consistent with that scene you did last week or explain the motivation or actually tell a satisfying story.  I feel like Lynch gives lots of great set pieces, but has forgotten how to tell a conventional narrative.  

I think this season was probably great in an artistic sense, but I would have found it more satisfying if a showrunner with less vision had taken control and just given us a good vs. evil story that had better defined roles of characters and gave us a more satisfying conclusion.  I jumped into this season because of the nostalgia factor, but I've had enough Lynch nostalgia to last another decade or two and I'm not really attached to any of the characters, so if' there's another season, I'm out.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Throat said:

17 wrapped up one storyline, and then 18 rewrapped it in a confounding way. Part of the appeal of getting a third season was finally getting the season two cliffhanger resolved, and now we're left with another cliffhanger, and several loose threads for characters outside of Cooper's story. Although none of their stories matter now that we have an all new Twin Peaks timeline! I guess the entire series never happened, aside from Cooper remembering it. Perhaps this was Lynch's way of erasing the bulk of season two that he hated. Unfortunately, everything else goes along with it. Or maybe this is just an alternate timeline and the one we know still exists and he could return to it? Unlikely that we'll ever find out.

Yeah, I understand your frustration, but most fans are perfectly happy with the ending and like speculating on what it all means. That's half the fun, to me. It's a cliffhanger but it's open ended and up to your interpretation. Just like most things involving Twin Peaks, really.

It's just really amusing to see all the hate and "why didn't they resolve everything!" stuff when, y'know, this is a David Lynch project and it's not like he's known for that sort of thing. If you didn't gather from Episode 1 that this isn't going to be what you wanted out of a new season of Twin Peaks... then I don't really know what to tell you. It was always really on the nose about what this season was all about, and how people made it all the way through still thinking Lynch was going to end this with no lingering questions just absolutely dumbfounds me to my core. It's not what he does, and I don't know why people think he would change his ways now.

EDIT: Unlike Horton, if there's a S4 (and I absolutely think there will be and it'll be the final one), I'm all in. I don't care if I'm the only one in this thread talking about it, I'll always watch more Twin Peaks. Oh, and just to piss some people off: If 10 is the number of completion like stated in the finale... S1 + S2 + S3 + S4 = 10. :D

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Horton Hears a Wooo!!! said:

I too felt something: moderate irritation over the time I invested in this show.

I dunno.  i was a big Lynch fan 20 years ago.  Now it feels like an "emperor has no clothes' sort of thing where Lynch can film literally anything and people will praise it and look for the deeper meanings because it's David Lynch.  I don't really need or want every tv show to explain everything to me at the end of the season, and tie all the answers up with a nice bow, but I do want a strong narrative, internal logic, a sense of action and consequence.  I'm not really into weirdness for the sake of weirdness or shock endings that make no sense and change the game because those things are too easy.  It's a lot easier to be funny or shocking when you don't have to play within a narrative framework and are just throwing disjoined scenes up on the screen for your fans to ohhh and ahhh over.  It's a lot harder when you have to be consistent with that scene you did last week or explain the motivation or actually tell a satisfying story.  I feel like Lynch gives lots of great set pieces, but has forgotten how to tell a conventional narrative.  

I think this season was probably great in an artistic sense, but I would have found it more satisfying if a showrunner with less vision had taken control and just given us a good vs. evil story that had better defined roles of characters and gave us a more satisfying conclusion.  I jumped into this season because of the nostalgia factor, but I've had enough Lynch nostalgia to last another decade or two and I'm not really attached to any of the characters, so if' there's another season, I'm out.

 

 

Some of this definitely feels like an Emperor Has No Clothes situation.  Now, was episode 8 interesting and unique?  Yes.  I liked episode 8 and some of what it suggested.  However,  all of that material in that episode was sort of tossed in the trash ultimately.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, Casey said:

Yeah, I understand your frustration, but most fans are perfectly happy with the ending and like speculating on what it all means. That's half the fun, to me. It's a cliffhanger but it's open ended and up to your interpretation. Just like most things involving Twin Peaks, really.

It's just really amusing to see all the hate and "why didn't they resolve everything!" stuff when, y'know, this is a David Lynch project and it's not like he's known for that sort of thing. If you didn't gather from Episode 1 that this isn't going to be what you wanted out of a new season of Twin Peaks... then I don't really know what to tell you. It was always really on the nose about what this season was all about, and how people made it all the way through still thinking Lynch was going to end this with no lingering questions just absolutely dumbfounds me to my core. It's not what he does, and I don't know why people think he would change his ways now. 

The previous 16 hours certainly tempered my expectations for how this was going to wrap up. I didn't expect it to end in a happy place, but I thought they'd at least touch on some of those dangling threads. So many new characters introduced and old ones brought back, and a lot of them amounted to nothing but filler. What was the point of bringing back Audrey? She was completely isolated from everything else. A fan favorite brought back in a thoroughly unsatisfying way. It's almost as if this entire season was a meta commentary on TV show revivals. "Oh, you want your favorite old show back? Well, we're gonna teach you a lesson about nostalgia, so THIS IS WHAT YOU GET!"

My frustration with this season is that it put the mythology front and center at the expense of the characters. Too much Lynch and not enough Frost. What made the original so appealing to me was that Frost shoehorned Lynch's weirdness into a conventional TV drama structure. The characters were the focus and the supernatural mythology was in the background most of the time. Now it's flipped. I am not as much of a fan of Lynch's films as I am of the original Twin Peaks, and I think that's because of Frost. He balances things out. He pieces Lynch's seemingly random ideas together so they make sense. Twin Peaks was at its best when they were both equally involved. Season two lost the plot when Lynch left. It became too conventional. This season felt like the reverse. It was like Lynch was running wild and Frost was sidelined.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unquestionably, Lynch and Frost ruined Audrey Horne.  That whole subplot could've been easily cut and it really wouldn't have changed anything.  It wouldn't be much different with what happened to Harry Truman, who was unceremoniously dumped by Lynch and Frost as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Unquestionably, Lynch and Frost ruined Audrey Horne.  That whole subplot could've been easily cut and it really wouldn't have changed anything.  It wouldn't be much different with what happened to Harry Truman, who was unceremoniously dumped by Lynch and Frost as well.

Well, there wasn't much they could do about Harry if Ontkean wasn't interested.

Imagine how much better that scene with Evil Coop in Frank's office would've been with Harry. He would've known immediately something was up when he turned down a cup of coffee.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've read conflicting reports on Ontkean not coming back.  So I don't take the whole retirement thing at face value.  I've also heard Robert Forrester is the one Lynch always wanted for the Harry Truman role going back to the original series.  Sounds like the dude got fired to me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...