NJPW G1 Special in USA 7/1 - 7/2

[DMN]

3 hours ago, hammerva said:

Really enjoyed Sabre Jr vs Ishii and was definitely the best match except for the main.   People think it looks awful for someone as gangly as Zack to go at the same level but if you are constantly working on his arm and leg then it works for me.

So I guess the Guerrillas of Destiny a combination of the Gangstas with Tanga Roa actually like Mustafa and the Usos with Tama Tonga dancing and singing and all.

 

 Seeing them both for the first time, I bought ZSJ as an opponent for Ishii, despite the size difference. Honestly, the only issue is I didn't really but into him being able to submit Ishii, but that's not a knock on him, and more a credit to Ishii.

Also really loved GoD, but I don't necessarily agree that Tama was dancing and singing like the Usos. He was gangster as fuck. Those two have a great look and should go far. Honestly, the biggest thing I noticed about New Japan is that everyone either looks like a serious wrestler, or looks cool as fuck, which is important to me. Cool as fuck is what I want from my wrestling.

2 hours ago, Raziel403 said:

I generally hate Bucks matches, but yeah, that "Apron Piledriver->Baisuku Knee->Gotch Piledriver-> kickout at 2 -> Strong Zero -> Kickout at 2" sequence was weapons-grade bullshit.

They almost lost me with that, but I think it ended up working due to the excellent work by RPG Vice.

2 hours ago, Michael Sweetser said:

I also would be remiss in not noting the ENORMOUS pop that motherfuckin' HAKU got.  I just wish he had been involved in the match.

Even Tanahashi-Billy Gunn was okay, especially considering Gunn's limitations and Tanahashi's injury.

I thought Tanahashi/Gunn was perfectly acceptable wrestling (I admittedly have low standards, though). A little disappointed I didn't get to see Tanahashi against a better opponent because of his hype, but they had a fine match and Gunn was fun playing with the crowd.

[maciej]

3 hours ago, hammerva said:

I think I get why I don't like indie Cody. All of his opponents are being built as "safe" for the company.   The concept of Cody Rhodes as being "dangerous" is just not realistic at all.  His wrestling style is so basic compared guys like Omega.   His promos are really cookie cutter.   He gets great heat but it is that 2002-2004 Triple H "oh he is going to win because of his name" heat

I could be reading you wrong here, and it's not like I'm a huge Cody fan either, but his wrestling in particular, is it really that basic compared to, like, Okada? I keep trying to see it with Okada because when that many people say someone's one of the best in the world I'm going to keep trying, but aside from the pretty dropkicks and being very good looking, I really don't get what he's doing that's particularly special. Watching that match after reading folks on Twitter talking about how Cody's unable to hang with Okada was mystifying.

(this got completely away from being a relevant response to hammerva)

[maciej]

double post, don't mind me

Edited July 3, 2017 by maciej
double post

[Michael Sweetser]

This might not sound like it makes sense, but to me Cody feels like he's playing the role of what he thinks a pro wrestler should act like, like a TV or movie role, instead of actually working as a pro wrestler.  There's an odd disconnect between everything that completely takes me out of his matches.  

I think it comes down to that intangible and undefinable "it" quality - and Cody doesn't have it.  Okada does.  He carries himself with an understated swagger and air about him that especially comes across in person.  You could FEEL that energy in the crowd that you're seeing someone special.

[OSJ]

Not make sense? Au contraire, Sweets, you nailed it. It's like my criticism of the British guy who shall remain nameless who is currently stinking up the Bullet Club. Okada is a professional wrestler, Cody Rhodes plays one on TV. Everything about him seems so forced and artificial and when you strip that away all that's left is a pretty bland dude that probably should be doing something else. When Okada, Tanahashi, Naito, even Kenny Omega walk into a room there's a vibe that here is a champion or at the very least a worthy contender. When Cody walks in carrying the ROH belt, you just think "Pity Christopher Daniels is in his fifties now..."

[Beech27]

Cody is either a poor actor, or a decent one who hasn't figured out how to play "Cody" yet. He speaks like he's reading from a cue card, even now that he's free to say whatever he wants. All of his facials and actions in-ring seem similarly calculated. These deficiencies are more glaring to me now that he's essentially playing himself. (But who the hell is he?) During his Stardust/Dashing/Mask years, that sort of disconnect can be part of the act. Indeed, it was part of it. He was a crazy person, miming at how a human might act in a professional athletic setting. That you could see the seams where it all barely fit together--and sometimes, came apart--was why it worked. Now, instead of playing a comic book villain, he's just a boring jock doing stuff from the Heel 101 coursebook.   

[Michael Sweetser]

8 minutes ago, OSJ said:

It's like my criticism of the British guy who shall remain nameless who is currently stinking up the Bullet Club. 

I actually came to the same conclusion watching the shows - I enjoy the concept of Scurrl a lot more than his actual work.  He comes across way too pandering and goofy for someone that's supposed to be this sick-minded "villain".  You can't have it both ways - either get more serious or get more goofy.

I cannot remember who I heard it from for the life of me, but it was said that you become a good worker - and even actually becoming a WORKER, quote/endquote, instead of just a wrestler - when you stop "acting" and start "reacting" - when you go from consciously thinking about every little thing that happens and what to do, to instinctively reacting to what happens in the ring, and adjusting almost without thinking about it.  

[Jiji]

I think the worst thing for Cody was the Stardust gimmick. He hasn't dropped the poor man's Frank Gorshin movements and it makes him look really silly. This isn't 1960s Batman, as much as I would not be averse to that.

Scurll, I feel anyway, has a few things that would be easy to fix or drop from his act and there's a quality wrestler there. As is, he's frustrating but not without his strengths. I disagree with the comparison between Cody and Marty. Marty is way less forced, but his routine has so much schtick in it and pandering that it hurts his natural charisma. Cody doesn't have a lot of natural charisma beyond his schtick/pandering. 

15 minutes ago, Michael Sweetser said:

I actually came to the same conclusion watching the shows - I enjoy the concept of Scurrl a lot more than his actual work.  He comes across way too pandering and goofy for someone that's supposed to be this sick-minded "villain".  You can't have it both ways - either get more serious or get more goofy.

I cannot remember who I heard it from for the life of me, but it was said that you become a good worker - and even actually becoming a WORKER, quote/endquote, instead of just a wrestler - when you stop "acting" and start "reacting" - when you go from consciously thinking about every little thing that happens and what to do, to instinctively reacting to what happens in the ring, and adjusting almost without thinking about it.  

And watching young guys on the indies, you can see this slowly melt away over time if they ever get good. There are still workers on WWE that are clearly acting and not smooth. Shit, the majority of women's wrestlers at any level outside of Japan are clearly hesitant and overthinking things rather than just doing their shit. Look at even Becky Lynch's movements in the rings and compare it to a Shirai or even a midlevel Stardom wrestler. They are worlds apart in the belief of their abilities. Way too much double clutching going on and executing moves at half speed.

[Michael Sweetser]

Cody still doing some Stardust mannerisms and even some of his brother's isn't helping the situation.  Again, he either needs to go full-on goofy or tone it down and go serious.  In-between is a horrible place to be because you won't make anyone happy, and in a place like New Japan, that's akin to career suicide.  As I learned from Calvin, a good compromise leaves everybody mad.

[maciej]

1 minute ago, Michael Sweetser said:

 Again, he either needs to go full-on goofy or tone it down and go serious.  In-between is a horrible place to be because you won't make anyone happy, and in a place like New Japan, that's akin to career suicide.

I would present to you the idea that Kenny Omega is exactly in-between.

Even when he's in serious match mode, he still goes goofy with facial expressions.

[Michael Sweetser]

Just now, maciej said:

I would present to you the idea that Kenny Omega is exactly in-between.

Even when he's in serious match mode, he still goes goofy with facial expressions.

That's how I feel about Omega as well - there's flashes of it and, of course, his general style is basically "anime villain dragon", but he makes it fit into what he's doing rather than just doing it to do it.  It almost comes across like he's so good in the ring that he can still get away with doing it - like a running back that has everyone beat by 50 yards and can take some time to high step into the end zone.  Even if someone catches up to him, he just turns on the jets again.

[maciej]

Yeah, I guess I just don't see that as a real difference. I do think that Omega is way better than Cody, don't get me wrong, but all the "playing the role of what he thinks a pro wrestler should act like" stuff just doesn't register for me as being dramatically different from how most pro wrestlers come off.

Similarly, for Okada, I kind of get the aura thing, but it still doesn't translate in a way when the bell rings in any way that makes the parts of his wrestling I find incredibly boring any less boring.

[Marty Sugar]

36 minutes ago, Michael Sweetser said:

I actually came to the same conclusion watching the shows - I enjoy the concept of Scurrl a lot more than his actual work.  He comes across way too pandering and goofy for someone that's supposed to be this sick-minded "villain".  You can't have it both ways - either get more serious or get more goofy.

I cannot remember who I heard it from for the life of me, but it was said that you become a good worker - and even actually becoming a WORKER, quote/endquote, instead of just a wrestler - when you stop "acting" and start "reacting" - when you go from consciously thinking about every little thing that happens and what to do, to instinctively reacting to what happens in the ring, and adjusting almost without thinking about it.  

Agreed on these points and the Cody comments. So many guys "playing a wrestler" and just not BEING a wrestler.

[hammerva]

When I see Marty Scurril in the Bullet Club I keep thinking of that goof in the ROH Kingdom who looks all weird and told people that he was going to fart in your dog food.  HIs goofiness overrides any chance of me thinking that you are a great wrestler.  I have seen Marty before his ROH time and I know he is really good in the ring but apparently it is more important to be the "goofy evil" guy

 

[Michael Sweetser]

3 minutes ago, maciej said:

Yeah, I guess I just don't see that as a real difference. I do think that Omega is way better than Cody, don't get me wrong, but all the "playing the role of what he thinks a pro wrestler should act like" stuff just doesn't register for me as being dramatically different from how most pro wrestlers come off.

That's because about 80-85% of the pro wrestlers on the planet today can't pull it off, either.

[Dolfan in NYC]

lol

[OSJ]

Didn't help much, did it?

[Beech27]

Weird and somewhat long tangent, so I'll put it in tags. But I don't think wrestling and other types of fiction are totally different, regarding what makes a character compelling or not:

Spoiler

Generally speaking, characters can be placed on a "relatability" and "competence" spectrum. The everyman and the superman are the archetypes at the furthest end of each. Characters can work at either extreme, or any point between. That is, we are compelled by people because they are like us; or, we are compelled by people because they are how we would like to be. Okada is an example of someone who works primarily as an aspirational character, like the Rock and Hogan did. He's so good at everything he does, we just love watching it. He's good looking, rich, and wins all the time. Great! However, people tend to prefer when something is present from both archetypes. That's what I think works so well for Omega. He is, as his promo said last night, the furthest thing from the guy who was supposed to make it. He ticks that everyman box, because he was just a nobody worker who made his name. That struggle--or the perception of it--is a powerful tool to build empathy. But he's also an athletic freak, with unreal timing in the ring, who now gets to kick out of avalanche style powerbombs. So, a superman also. (Daniel Bryan's ascendance is probably the best recent example of this. The nerd made good who is also better at jock things than the jocks. Austin nailed the mix.) Cody, on the other hand, doesn't clearly draw from either. He's in between and yet nowhere. Wrestling royalty--not relatable--so there's always going to be a feeling his success is inevitable. Everyone knows he's going to be booked as a top guy in any promotion he steps into, now. So, where's the struggle? Except, of course, he was a midcard act in WWE. So how good could he be, really? (Call this the TNA problem.) And while he's certainly an impressive athlete, nothing about his ring work stands out. His promos are usually incredibly bland. You can get by if you're exceptional at either, but it's hard when you're average at both. So there's very little superman there, also. It all results in a character I can't place, and thus, can't invest in.

 

[OSJ]

Allow me to go to bat for Kenny Omega, who (rightfully) has been called out as an example of being serious and goofy at the same time. That's his character, the partly-unhinged anime geek that happens to be one of the best wrestlers in the world. There aren't too many people that can get away with the goofy stuff and remain a viable threat, but Kenny pulls it off. He's the Joker of NJPW, a couple of sandwiches sort of a picnic, yes. Dangerous as all get out? Also a big yes. It may be because my favorite wrestler of all time, Arn Anderson could also work goofy stooging spots into a serious match and get away with it. You have to be very, very comfortable with your in-ring persona to even attempt stuff like that, the guys that can do it well can be counted on the fingers of two hands.

[Ace]

I came out alright because I went in with respect. Even called him "Your Majesty", since he signs as "King Haku". Plus, he was getting less attention than his sons anyways. At that point I was the only person who stood in line just for his signing. Others were him with his sons. 

[Jiji]

Kids these days.

[Ace]

Only quasi-celebs I managed to see on Sunday were Shayna Baszler and Jessamyn Duke. Duke is shorter than I thought she'd be. She sure isn't her 5'11" billed height.

 

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

I don't think it came across as well in his match with Cody but in big matches right now I have it AJ Styles, Kenny Omega, John Cena and Okada.  Whenever those dudes are involved in something (maybe add Brock Lesnar too)  it feels special and it's not because of the booking,  they do have that aura about them and it creates a buzz in the arena unlike anyone else on the rosters. 

Okada's selling of exhaustion in big matches is so fucking great,  I feel like I've watched an absolute war and given the impact of some of the moves he takes and dishes out he pretty much has been in a war.  His stamina is ridiculous,  same as the other three guys I mentioned. They can go an hour and keep going and going...  Okada's finishing stretches are amazing. Some say he's too reliant on The Rainmaker these days but he also has variations he does that switches up the formula. Plus,  some confuse his regular lariat with his actual Rainmaker finisher.  The finisher must have the full wrist control setup.  

[MapRef41N93W]

I can't decide what to think about the V-Trigger. On the one hand, it's a great, brutal-looking move. On the other hand, the impact is diluted a bit when he never wins with it. On the other other hand, the fact that he never wins with it means you get to see him do it like seven times from four different angles in every big match. A true puzzle for the discerning wrestling fan.

[Jiji]

It's an incredible looking move. Only Marufuji's knees come close. He uses it as purely a set up move but I wouldn't mind him putting away lower tiered wrestlers with it.