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Backlash XIII


Dolfan in NYC

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Not sure what I'm missing with all the Jinder hate but since when do you have to be all about the workrate to be a star and have the ability to draw? Is this what wrestling is now? You have to put on five star strong style/cruserweight matches to be a top guy? 

I watched this show with a casual fan who is somewhat smart to the business -- I'd day 80/20 casual to smart. He could have cared less about Nak and Owens but was super into Mahal. Jinder has the intangible that all the five star matches in the world won't get you IMO. 

If we put our personal preferences aside and look at it from a business standpoint, its hard to argue against building Smackdown around Mahal as the top heel, regardless of the fact that he's not Eddie Guerrero in the ring.

 

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My pet-peeve regarding "I was watching with my friend/significant other who conveniently supports the point I wanted to make anyway" anecdotes aside: What evidence do we have that Jinder has "it", or is any kind of a draw? The title run may prove that he is, but he's not been the top guy in any promotion, or on any show before. We really have no clue if this will work. 

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I'm surprised people keep missing the exact problem with Jinder. First, I don't think the obvious roid usage is part of the problem. I think the bigger issues are these:

  • He's poor to mediocre in the ring. Yes, you don't have to be a workrate or psychology master to be worthy of the top championship, but it helps. Being somewhat proficient in the ring helps engage the audience a little more than they'd normally be. Jinder doesn't have that sort of connection. Not right now anyway.
  • He's really not interesting on the mic and there's nothing that sets him apart from anyone else from a spectacle aspect. WWE is littered with guys who aren't good on the mic, but again, if you suck in the ring, working the stick helps make up for that. If you can't do either of those things, then if there's something special about you that really makes you stick out, like Great Khali's look, then you have a better reason for being at that championship level.
  • Finally, and this I feel is the biggest reason, he was treated as a total jobber up until the draft. If Jinder was brought back, started winning, and started winning because he wasn't as focused on being a wrestler before and that's all he's focused on now, then fine. Cool. He could build up a streak of wins and then he's good to go. Instead, he was brought back as a jobber. Then he gets drafted to SDL and he's still regarded as a jobber until he wins that 6 pack challenge to determine the #1 contender. Going from worst to first is fine when you're a professional sports team, you have an offseason to complete your rebuild, and then you come back better than ever. In any other sport where you're just representing yourself, you don't go from losing a shitload of matches to being a contender. Not in UFC. Not in tennis. And it shouldn't happen in pro wrestling. WWE isn't a sport, but it wants to make the audience believe that whoever is contending for a championship has a reason to be there. With Jinder, he never built anything close to a resume to make him look like a credible contender. It's the fakest fucking thing ever in entertainment predicated on being fake and pre-determined.

And I'll repeat this to make this clear, I have no problem with Jinder being where he's at now if he's brought back and used differently. If his build up to this point is different and he's not a complete jobber, then I don't have a problem with rolling the dice with this guy. I wouldn't have that much of a problem with making no changes to how he was brought back and him winning a secondary title. What did happen was too much way too soon. If anything, it should be a good reason why Vince shouldn't bring dudes back and treat them like total jobbers. A little bit goes a long way. Hell, all Jinder needed to do was quietly win his matches each week since returning, bitch about how he doesn't get any respect or attention, get drafted to SDL, point out that all he's done is win since coming back and he deserves an opportunity in the land of opportunity. Boom. Done. Instead Jinder complained about that without doing anything to back those demands up. 

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40 minutes ago, Beech27 said:

My pet-peeve regarding "I was watching with my friend/significant other who conveniently supports the point I wanted to make anyway" anecdotes aside: What evidence do we have that Jinder has "it", or is any kind of a draw? The title run may prove that he is, but he's not been the top guy in any promotion, or on any show before. We really have no clue if this will work. 

We don't have anymore evidence that Jinder has "it" than we do about Kevin Owens or Seth Rollins or Finn Balor. My problem is that people on the internet readily accept those guys as "top guys" because they're in love with their in ring work. Regardless of any tangible evidence that they deserve to be top guys. 

So I guess the larger point I'm making is that if you fall in that camp, you guys are living in your golden age right now-- you have NXT, you have the work rate crew main eventing Raw, you have the Indy scene-- so why not chill out and let other fans enjoy a different, throwback type presentation that might hook some of the viewers that have left in droves during the last couple years. 

Regarding Craig's post: I agree with his last point that they should have done a better job of building Jindar rather than going from A to Z that quickly. But I disagree about how mic work-- I think he stands out because you can feel his passion and it has a realness to it. I think that also has a lot to do with the intangibles he exhibits in his body language, mannerisms, etc. 

What would also be a big help to him is if they moved this thing into 2017, got rid of the turban (just because he's Indian) and got rid of his henchman. He doesn't need any of that and would be a lot more effective standing alone. 

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On 5/22/2017 at 1:33 AM, TheVileOne said:

Bradshaw was a shitty worker and his main event matches during his title run were the drizzling shits.

This is wrong. 

Tell me some things he was shitty at. My guess is you don't like things he has done personally, come from a bygone era of "Why he is over six feet tall, he must be bad!!" or a combination of both. 

I found Bradshaw, going back to when I first saw him in 1996, to be a good brawler with good timing and his stuff looked good. He could cut a decent promo too, but as JBL he would wear out his welcome. But that is ever WWE heel going back to 1999. 

JBL is a crappy person, but that doesn't make him a bad wrestler. 

As for Jinder, his equivalent would be Tiger Chung Lee beating Steamboat for the Intercontinental Title.  

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1 hour ago, Thibs said:

 

Not sure what I'm missing with all the Jinder hate but since when do you have to be all about the workrate to be a star and have the ability to draw? Is this what wrestling is now? You have to put on five star strong style/cruserweight matches to be a top guy? 

 

You need to have something resembling charisma.

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3 hours ago, Rick said:

Eddie%20Guerrero.jpg

I wanna know which roids does this whilst apparently ''not eating properly''. 

You have to work out with them or you're just going to get fat. Eddie said at the time he had stopped drinking beer altogether and that really helped. 

Nobody really compared Jinder Mahal to Eddie Guerrero right? I mean c'mon fellas I know nobody would be stupid enough to do that.

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1 hour ago, Thibs said:

Not sure what I'm missing with all the Jinder hate but since when do you have to be all about the workrate to be a star and have the ability to draw? Is this what wrestling is now? You have to put on five star strong style/cruserweight matches to be a top guy? 

This is ultimately the disconnect between the WWE and the IWC. I'm sure that disconnect was there when Bruno, Pedro and Hogan were champ...but the internet, man.

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2 minutes ago, Marty Sugar said:

This is ultimately be the disconnect between the WWE and the IWC. I'm sure that disconnect was there when Bruno, Pedro and Hogan were champ...but the internet, man.

Que?

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14 minutes ago, Thibs said:

Que?

I think Marty agrees with your Less Is More minimalist worker logic, but acknowledges that the internets is full of moveset marks that hate workers just because they don't use nine thousand variations of the German in one twenty minute match.

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17 minutes ago, J.T. said:

I think Marty agrees with your Less Is More minimalist worker logic, but acknowledges that the internets is full of moveset marks that hate workers just because they don't use nine thousand variations of the German in one twenty minute match.

I'm saying most top WWE champions have been "not very good" forever: they have always simply been the most charismatic guy at the time to put asses in seats. Bruno was punch/kick/bearhug, Pedro was slap a motherfucker a million times, Hogan had two moves unless he was in Japan. There was no internet to bitch about this as much as it is bitched about today. Instead, people wrote letters to PWI (maybe, or were those a work like the interviews?), and just watched WCW, instead.  EDIT: and the heel champs were NOT overly charismatic (until Superstar), just someone really easy to hate for a short time: Koloff, etc.

These arguments are cyclical, anyway. People bitched about how they forced John Cena on us and now he's great and we are bitching that Vince is pushing Roman on us; ten years from now we will look back and pretend we were rooting for Roman all along. JBL's title run was "OMG the worst EVAR" and now it's "that shitty Jinder will never be as good as JBL during his great title run."

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1 hour ago, Thibs said:

We don't have anymore evidence that Jinder has "it" than we do about Kevin Owens or Seth Rollins or Finn Balor. My problem is that people on the internet readily accept those guys as "top guys" because they're in love with their in ring work. Regardless of any tangible evidence that they deserve to be top guys. 

So I guess the larger point I'm making is that if you fall in that camp, you guys are living in your golden age right now-- you have NXT, you have the work rate crew main eventing Raw, you have the Indy scene-- so why not chill out and let other fans enjoy a different, throwback type presentation that might hook some of the viewers that have left in droves during the last couple years. 

Two things.

1) Good ring work and "throwback" presentation are totally compatible, not opposite ends of a spectrum. If Mahal had been putting in great work on Main Event, Superstars, and various undercards over the last few years, I and others would happily acknowledge it. 

2) Similarly, if they're counting on Mahal to bring back the droves of missing viewers... well, I guess we'll see. But Backlash didn't sell out in Chicago

Still, I am somewhat interested to see how this plays out. Or would be, if it weren't "boo the foreign heel for being foreign/pointing out legitimate instances of American xenophobia". 

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41 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Heels should have heaters. I'm fine with Jinder having the Singhs around.

Could the Singhs even be considered heaters though? I mean, they're stooges at best and crash test dummies the rest of the time. Jinder needs a Great Khali (who isn't Great Khali cause nobody wants him back) and none of the guys in NXT seem big enough (Jinder is an inch taller than Satender and way meaner looking). Anyone with a better knowledge of Ring Ka King have a suggestion? 

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8 minutes ago, JonnyLaw said:

Guys, I just realized Rusev has been demanding a title match, and now his former lackey has the title.  We could be getting a Rusev face turn and title program together!

Rusev and Lana will be the great American heroes we need.

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20 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Could the Singhs even be considered heaters though? I mean, they're stooges at best and crash test dummies the rest of the time. Jinder needs a Great Khali (who isn't Great Khali cause nobody wants him back) and none of the guys in NXT seem big enough (Jinder is an inch taller than Satender and way meaner looking). Anyone with a better knowledge of Ring Ka King have a suggestion? 

Bring in Sonjay Dutt and play the numbers game.

I personally would mark big time for the Bollywoodz holding Orton prone so that Dutt could destroy The Viiper's pancreas with a Moonsault Footstomp.

As far as Ring Ka King goes, the only dude I was fairly familiar with was Deadly Danda (Saurav Gujar) and IIRC semi-retired and gone into television acting.

I know that Jeet Rama was in NXT for a hot second in 2016, but have no idea if he's still on the roster..

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31 minutes ago, Marty Sugar said:

These arguments are cyclical, anyway. People bitched about how they forced John Cena on us and now he's great and we are bitching that Vince is pushing Roman on us; ten years from now we will look back and pretend we were rooting for Roman all along. JBL's title run was "OMG the worst EVAR" and now it's "that shitty Jinder will never be as good as JBL during his great title run."

I just have to say outside of the Eddie feud I always thought the JBL reign was terrible. I actually liked JBL then and still thought it was terrible.

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3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Rusev and Lana will be the great American heroes we need.

Nashville Preds win Stanley Cup. Preds #1 super fan Rusev is invited as a guest to the parade and/or gets to pose with the cup.

Mainstream/outside the wrestling bubble exposure, (somewhat), someone tells Vince Rusev is trending, boom, face turn and hot comeback.

Give him a hockey stick to bring to the ring too, it'll be like Duggan's 2x4.

USA! USA!

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