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MAY 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.

The Natural
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SorceressKnight

SorceressKnight

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7 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

There's also the difference between the hardcore NXT crowd and the more casual main roster audience, as well as the former getting to watch gimmicks develop over time while the latter sees fully formed gimmicks called up with no backstory.

This probably hurts the NXT callups more than anything does. The former watches the gimmick develop, the NXT worker gets a connection with them, they become stars there...but there's too few NXT viewers compared to casual WWE fanbases and it means that the "you liked them on NXT, right? Well, here they are!" doesn't lead to the same connection on the main roster they could have.

By contrast, they can't exactly recreate the magic for the main roster either, because people would have seen it and it loses the magic the second time around.

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John from Cincinnati

John from Cincinnati

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10 hours ago, AxB said:

Is there something about the WWE performance centre that makes them turn out people who are cool or impressive in NXT, but totally unimpressive on the main roster? Because a lot of people who came up with buzz have seen it dissipate. And the best performance centre to main roster workers now (like Roman, and...was Braun actually in NXT at all?) are the ones who weren't much of a thing in their NXT days.

I think part of this is that acts which are big by NXT standards are bound to be cooled off by the amount of exposure the main roster demands of those deemed to be stars. Couple that with the lackluster creative, and that shit would stifle anybody's momentum.

But I do think you make an interesting point about Roman and Braun, and one which I hadn't considered before. And to that point, I would suggest that Braun and Roman might have an advantage going through trial-by-fire and learning on the job. It's possible they're learning things through that experience which slip through the cracks when someone is babied through NXT and transferred to the main roster at the opportune moment, or when someone toils away on the indys and carries some of those bad habits with them indefinitely. 

To Natural's discussion regarding the Shield members, I would say that Roman is absolutely my favourite of the three right now. They've all had plenty of chances to produce at a singles level, so I think there's plenty of work from which we can assess each man. And Roman has simply become a guy who delivers in the big match more often than not. His character might leave something to be desired, and years of questionable creative may have stalled his momentum a bit, but their commitment to him and his ability to deliver when he needs to have made him a guy who I like immensely.

Also, if you haven't already, listen to his TiJ appearance. He's a down to Earth, relatable dude. No surprise there. 

All of that said, I feel Ambrose is the one with the highest ceiling. I was first exposed to him in FCW. Based on his promos there and the two matches with Regal, I've rarely (if ever) felt a stronger desire to point at a prospect and proclaim "There it is! That's the guy, right there!" Unfortunately, he's not lived up to his potential. He's still rock solid and I like him a great deal. But I know he can do better. Regarding his sometimes weak-looking offence, not playing like enough of a maniac, being too goofy, etc, etc... it's one of two things. Either he has shit instincts, or he's getting the wrong advice. Either way, I really hope a future heel turn gives him and the producers and Powers That Be a chance to give him a serious look to reassess what is and isn't working. Because he's a star now, but he could be so much more.

Rollins does nothing for me and likely never will. Occasional flashes of brilliance followed by cascades of nonsense. I will commend creative for realizing that he was somehow the sleaziest, most lowdown d-bag in the group when they broke the Shield up. Of course creative then loses points for months and months of 15-minutes Seth Rollins "stand and deliver" segments. They sent that guy out there to die. He's a less-is-more guy. Honestly, he bordered on great in the Shield tag matches, which is likely where his push came from. I felt the same about him in ROH; he was best in AotF. He's great as part of a group, but I don't care for him as a singles. 

Fair play, though: Sans Lesnar vs Reigns, the best singles match anyone in the group has produced on the main roster is likely Neville vs Rollins. Praise be to Neville! 

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AxB

AxB

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Other people who became big deals on the main roster having done not much in NXT: Big E and Xavier Woods.

You know how in ECW in '94, Tommy Dreamer was trying to get over as a babyface by getting beaten up a lot? He was in the feud with Sandman where he was doing the whole "Thank you sir may I have another" and the fans just wanted to see Sandman cane his prettyboy ass some more? Even after the blinding angle where he was on the fan's side, they cheered Sandman for turning on him.

That's Roman Reigns for the last two and a half years, that is.

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Cristobal

Cristobal

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8 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Sure. But consider how long he was in the territory and how often he was asked to do significant, lengthy matches. 

He tried to make them longer by making the refs count more.

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Niners Fan in CT

Niners Fan in CT

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You know what Alexa and Braun have in common? Neither spent much time working on their characer on NXT TV (or at all).  Alexa was mostly a manager since turning heel. They were both a clean slate. 

I don't recommend calling talent up too early in development stages but I also do not recommend they sit around forever.  

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John from Cincinnati

John from Cincinnati

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6 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

You know what Alexa and Braun have in common? Neither spent much time working on their characer on NXT TV (or at all).  Alexa was mostly a manager since turning heel. They were both a clean slate. 

I don't recommend calling talent up too early in development stages but I also do not recommend they sit around forever.  

On this note, I point to Dana and Corbin. Neither is a finished product, but both have fantastic show-biz instincts. I'll take that over what Cesaro has any day. 

You last sentence is a nail I wish the IWC would hit on the head. They're becoming taste-makers more and more as the years go by. I wish they'd advise less "building" people up and more striking while the iron's heating up. 

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Wyld Samurai

Wyld Samurai

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In hindsight, they should have turned Reigns against The Shield. The fans wanted to cheer him, he could have been pushed to the too as a bad guy, got the boo' s in, then had him slowly turn face. 

I think they could have avoided the whole shitstorm they have now. 

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Eivion

Eivion

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52 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

You know what Alexa and Braun have in common? Neither spent much time working on their characer on NXT TV (or at all).  Alexa was mostly a manager since turning heel. They were both a clean slate.

Huh? Once she turned heel all Alexa did was spend time working on her character be it as a manager or a wrestler. Being a manager in the first place is pure character work. She was also on NXT tv a good 2-3 years.

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Niners Fan in CT

Niners Fan in CT

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2 hours ago, Eivion said:

Huh? Once she turned heel all Alexa did was spend time working on her character be it as a manager or a wrestler. Being a manager in the first place is pure character work. She was also on NXT tv a good 2-3 years.

 

1 hour ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Not only that, but the spot she did in the multi-woman match where she thought twice about a top rope dive on to Nia Jax was lifted from a spot they did in a #1 Contenders match from NXT last summer. 

 

1 hour ago, MORELOCK said:

Yeah, Alexa was working heel for over a year before she got called up, no idea where that came from. 

 

1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

And several of us on this board were absolutely freaking out over how good she got at that character after the heel turn.

I don't recommend they sit around forever is the point I'm making.  She turned heel. Worked on her character, yes.  But she was a manager.  They held off on having these big long drawn out feuds with her over the title and saved all of that for the main shows.  Which is why she's so over now.  

Bayley had to come in as a FINISHED product.  They had to spend time talking about all of the things she's already done and her journey to get where she's at now and why she's so awesome... instead of the audience seeing that progression they are being told by Michael Cole. 

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username

username

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I've said this before, but I think NXT actually hurts a number of people who end up on the main roster due to the way things are currently set up.  Bayley is the easiest example:  she got to start off their as a lovable goof, she got to naturally build up and expand her gimmick while she became a more credible contender.  By the time she gets to her big title matches the crowd has gotten the chance to watch her grow and are invested in her.  She has her title run, gets called up to the main roster and... she's stuck in a bit of a no (wo)man's land.  All of that build and growth she's had has not been seen by enough of the audience for it to really work, yet it has been seen by enough people that they just can't start at step one all over again either.

 

This has happened with a number of acts.  No one had any idea how to react to Dancin' Emma, American Alpha (who got over some due to their work) were hurt by no one really having an idea what their deal was, hell even Sami was confusing being billed as an underdog while being presented as a legit threat day 1 thanks to holding the NXT title.  WWE still knows that watching wrestlers climb the ranks and grow as characters is a big thing in getting people to buy into them, they've just stuck most of it on a show that only a small section of their audience watches.  It makes NXT stronger (also rarely having to balance pushing champs back down the card while still keeping them looking strong makes it easier to book) and helps the talent get some buzz on arrival, but I think long-term it has legit drawbacks.

 

So yeah, I think the NXT talent that doesn't get the full build or comes up with characters or gimmicks that don't need as much build or backstory benefit because of this.

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Wyld Samurai

Wyld Samurai

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I'm pretty certain that the majority of fans that attend live events have the network and follow closely. Bayley was a bigger deal in the WWE Women's division BEFORE she burst onto the scene. There were chants for her every week on RAW while she was still in NXT. Charlotte even had to comment on it. 

What the WWE does wrong is that when they bring in a new babyface wrestler they job them soon after arriving. I look at it as a way for them let them know their spot is a privilege and not a right. Its counter intuitive as it kills their heat and a lot of them cannot recover as most just don't have that "it" factor that transcends W/L.  

"Broken" Matt Hardy is another example of the WWE underestimating their fanbase and social media. In all likelihood nobody should be chanting "DELETE!" or "Brother Nero!". Nobody has access to POPTV. Nobody watches TNA/Impact. 

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