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MAY 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION.


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3 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

"Broken" Matt Hardy is another example of the WWE underestimating their fanbase and social media. In all likelihood nobody should be chanting "DELETE!" or "Brother Nero!". Nobody has access to POPTV. Nobody watches TNA/Impact. 

Supposedly this is more the the lawsuit's fault. They actually were going to use the Broken gimmick on some level before then.

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2 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Supposedly this is more the the lawsuit's fault. They actually were going to use the Broken gimmick on some level before then.

Oh that's definitely true. But in no way should everyone even know about the gimmick. Orlando was blown out of the water and San Jose was no different. Its far bigger than the WWE realizes, but they will not acknowledge that because its not apart if their "universe".

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All the #BROKEN stuff was easily accessible on YouTube though.  That's how I saw it. TNA was putting up the full length segments on their own channel too. It turned into memes on social media, blew up on Twitter and IG. 

NXT was and maybe still is a hot promotion but it's not mainstream.  I know more than a few people personally who have the network and don't watch NXT.  They'll watch the current stuff and maybe even older stuff but not bother with NXT. 

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Isn't a lot of this on the wrestlers and writers, though, too?  Like Kevin Owens came in as 'The Prizefighter' Kevin Owens who was cold and callous because he was making money for his family and didn't care about anyone else, and the crowd was not into it, so the 'Prizefighter' aspect (While still being called that on commentary) was largely dropped and he was just a shit-talking heel.  He/They adjusted, he didn't just stay a prizefighter waiting for the fans to catch on to what worked in NXT, they pivoted.  Or Alexa came in as kind of an afterthought, and her sheer mastery and dedication to her character had her leapfrog some others that I believe they honestly thought would work better on the main roster.  Big E. went from big, strong guy who asks for 5, to big strong silent muscle, to weirdly patriotic muscle, to goofball and it worked for him.  

So, basically, Bayley's character has to pivot now.  What worked in NXT, isn't necessarily working on Raw and now she/the writers have to adapt.  I've noticed them adding a little extra aggressivenss to her character over the last few weeks and I think that's the way to go.  I'd give her a good submission move, too, and move away from the "She's just happy to be here!" to a more "She's sweet and cute, but has a mean streak when crossed" adaptation, but that's just me.

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9 minutes ago, caley said:

Isn't a lot of this on the wrestlers and writers, though, too?  Like Kevin Owens came in as 'The Prizefighter' Kevin Owens who was cold and callous because he was making money for his family and didn't care about anyone else, and the crowd was not into it, so the 'Prizefighter' aspect (While still being called that on commentary) was largely dropped and he was just a shit-talking heel.  He/They adjusted, he didn't just stay a prizefighter waiting for the fans to catch on to what worked in NXT, they pivoted.  Or Alexa came in as kind of an afterthought, and her sheer mastery and dedication to her character had her leapfrog some others that I believe they honestly thought would work better on the main roster.  Big E. went from big, strong guy who asks for 5, to big strong silent muscle, to weirdly patriotic muscle, to goofball and it worked for him.  

So, basically, Bayley's character has to pivot now.  What worked in NXT, isn't necessarily working on Raw and now she/the writers have to adapt.  I've noticed them adding a little extra aggressivenss to her character over the last few weeks and I think that's the way to go.  I'd give her a good submission move, too, and move away from the "She's just happy to be here!" to a more "She's sweet and cute, but has a mean streak when crossed" adaptation, but that's just me.

 

But that also ties to the same problem that was mentioned- the IWC believing they're the tastemakers.

Kevin Owens could pivot, because he was basically the same shit-talking heel, whether or not it was a prizefighter or not, so it worked...but he was also not on NXT for particularly long before he was a star, so there was no connection based on NXT (there was a connection to Kevin Steen, but Owens didn't go against Steen on the indies either.) 

By contrast, the NXT workers are in a worse place, since not enough people have a connection to make them mega-stars to the indy scene, but the ones who DO have so much of a connection they WON'T LET YOU pivot on them. Bayley's just the worst example of it, because there's two distinct Bayleys, which were both beloved ("Bayley, the starstruck fangirl who hugs everyone" and "Bayley, the badass women's wrestler who came into her own and can take out anyone in the division"),- and right now, they're trying to show both of those sides of Bayley together, without seeing the second worked because of the first...but they can't do the first again because of the second making it a step back.

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I think the biggest thing holding Bayley back is that she's not all that great on the mic, but she doesn't do anything particularly flashy or impressive in the ring either.  Look at Charlotte, who not only carried the promos with her heel character, but did stuff like the Figure 8 (Which looks cool and is immediately impressive to WWE viewers because it's a new twist on a popular old move), and the huge moonsault.  Sasha is a little sketchy on the mic, but the Bank Statement looks different and she's done some dives, too.  Bayley is soo gee shucks dull on the mic, right now, that she doesn't command the audience's attention, but in the ring her finisher is a standard belly-to-belly, her signature move (the running elbow in the corner after the Bayley Buddy impression) is silly because her opponent has to stand there so long waiting for her to do it, and her top rope move is a not-particularly-impressive elbow drop (The reverse top rope rana that she busted out on Sasha is way too dangerous to be used again, I'd wager, especially with the way Banks landed on it).  

She's a lot like Becky Lynch on Smackdown: a good, solid wrestler who can be the base for an excellent match.  But until she finds a hook, either in her promos or an eye-catching move, she's likely going to be the good hand they put in the ring to get someone else over who is capturing the audience's attention more.  You look at Naomi on Smackdown, she's arguably the weakest female wrestler on the mic, right now, but her moves are flashy and get the crowd's attention, so she is way over.  Bliss isn't the best wrestler, but she is dynamite on the mic and from a character standpoint, so she's on the top of the division.  Right now, Bayley doesn't have either.  The writers are going to back whomever's got the crowd's attention for the most part, so the onus is on Bayley to either find a catchphrase or angle to get the crowd chanting along with her or a flashy move or submission to get their attention.

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I had an epiphany earlier, wrestling is at a very interesting point now. All fans are online fans and terms like "smarks" and "IWC" are redundant. There is a greater disharmony among the fanbase because of it. 

I think things are in a state of flux and nobody really knows what is going to be dominant when things settle down. I think this has made all fans (myself included) very defensive over their favorites. Whatever style ends up in control is going to have it for awhile. 

 

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9 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

 

To Natural's discussion regarding the Shield members, I would say that Roman is absolutely my favourite of the three right now. They've all had plenty of chances to produce at a singles level, so I think there's plenty of work from which we can assess each man. And Roman has simply become a guy who delivers in the big match more often than not. His character might leave something to be desired, and years of questionable creative may have stalled his momentum a bit, but their commitment to him and his ability to deliver when he needs to have made him a guy who I like immensely.

Also, if you haven't already, listen to his TiJ appearance. He's a down to Earth, relatable dude. No surprise there.

All of that said, I feel Ambrose is the one with the highest ceiling. I was first exposed to him in FCW. Based on his promos there and the two matches with Regal, I've rarely (if ever) felt a stronger desire to point at a prospect and proclaim "There it is! That's the guy, right there!" Unfortunately, he's not lived up to his potential. He's still rock solid and I like him a great deal. But I know he can do better. Regarding his sometimes weak-looking offence, not playing like enough of a maniac, being too goofy, etc, etc... it's one of two things. Either he has shit instincts, or he's getting the wrong advice. Either way, I really hope a future heel turn gives him and the producers and Powers That Be a chance to give him a serious look to reassess what is and isn't working. Because he's a star now, but he could be so much more.

Rollins does nothing for me and likely never will. Occasional flashes of brilliance followed by cascades of nonsense. I will commend creative for realizing that he was somehow the sleaziest, most lowdown d-bag in the group when they broke the Shield up. Of course creative then loses points for months and months of 15-minutes Seth Rollins "stand and deliver" segments. They sent that guy out there to die. He's a less-is-more guy. Honestly, he bordered on great in the Shield tag matches, which is likely where his push came from. I felt the same about him in ROH; he was best in AotF. He's great as part of a group, but I don't care for him as a singles.

Fair play, though: Sans Lesnar vs Reigns, the best singles match anyone in the group has produced on the main roster is likely Neville vs Rollins. Praise be to Neville!

Thank you for your reply. I agree with you. I'd rather watch a couple of Roman Reigns single matches rather than ones by Dean Ambrose and Seth Rollins.

A thought just crossed my mind. When the Shield broke up, Ambrose and Rollins were given new wrestling attire and entrance music, a new start. Unlike Roman who kept the Shield music, entrance through the crowd and the vest/swat pants. Having said that the solo gear with coloured trim was initially terrible:

Image result for roman reigns solo 2014

Image result for roman reigns vs randy orton summerslam

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The weed part isn't that bad, but the meth part of the story bums me out.  He sounded like he was doing great in the recent podcasts I heard him in.  He'll need to face whatever consequences come from this, but hope for his health he stops with meth and fast.

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18 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

The weed part isn't that bad, but the meth part of the story bums me out.  He sounded like he was doing great in the recent podcasts I heard him in.  He'll need to face whatever consequences come from this, but hope for his health he stops with meth and fast.

He got da' sickness.

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9 hours ago, caley said:

Isn't a lot of this on the wrestlers and writers, though, too?  Like Kevin Owens came in as 'The Prizefighter' Kevin Owens who was cold and callous because he was making money for his family and didn't care about anyone else, and the crowd was not into it, so the 'Prizefighter' aspect (While still being called that on commentary) was largely dropped and he was just a shit-talking heel.  He/They adjusted, he didn't just stay a prizefighter waiting for the fans to catch on to what worked in NXT, they pivoted.  Or Alexa came in as kind of an afterthought, and her sheer mastery and dedication to her character had her leapfrog some others that I believe they honestly thought would work better on the main roster.  Big E. went from big, strong guy who asks for 5, to big strong silent muscle, to weirdly patriotic muscle, to goofball and it worked for him.  

So, basically, Bayley's character has to pivot now.  What worked in NXT, isn't necessarily working on Raw and now she/the writers have to adapt.  I've noticed them adding a little extra aggressivenss to her character over the last few weeks and I think that's the way to go.  I'd give her a good submission move, too, and move away from the "She's just happy to be here!" to a more "She's sweet and cute, but has a mean streak when crossed" adaptation, but that's just me.

Theoretically, shouldn't the bolded part make him a face? He's doing what's best for his wife and kids.

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Except that nearly the first thing he did was, at the height of his best friend's success, to sneak attack said friend and attempt to injure him. Owens' "fighting for my family" routine was always presented as a thin veneer over overt venality.

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18 hours ago, MORELOCK said:

Big E was NXT Champion.

Until New Day took off, he was essentially one of the failed NXT callups.

Rusev is another success story with little NXT time, at least in his current role.  He was shot up to the main roster almost as soon as he ditched Dawson and paired up with Lana.

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Big E was IC Champ and was being programmed as a buddy of Cena and one of the main foes against the Shield (including the constant teasing of him vs. Reigns)

I have no idea how that is "failed callup"

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14 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

I got this - that was good enough for me

tumblr_mwull3t5Vm1rnjfjfo1_400.gif

I can't state enough how much I love this happened.  There were some awesome possibilities that could of come from this.  I like him a lot in New Day and I'm sure he's appreciating the sweet merch money that's come out of it.  But whenever he does break out I'm hoping he can get that main even success as he'd be great.

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Yeah, I really don't know where all this revisionism comes from. The portion I'm quoted as saying was in response to saying Big E had done nothing in *NXT*, not the main roster - but really neither is true.

Rusev also ditched Dawson a full 7 months before his main roster debut.

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While that would really suck if true, he has been the brightest spot in the WWE the past couple months, it could help him in the long run. It could keep Roman from getting a win over him yet, then have him win the rumble and then have either Brock/Braun or Roman/Braun at Mania in a money match. They could kayfabe it as a suspension for his overly aggressive tactics as of late too.

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4 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Did Meltzer or anyone else confirm Braun has a torn rotator cuff?   

That's months off if it's true.

Dave didn't think he was really hurt and that it was sloppy story telling their part as they just went TORN ROTATOR CUFF!!! not realizing that would put him out 6 months

That being said - he didn't rule out Braun being hurt

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10 hours ago, Victator said:

I had an epiphany earlier, wrestling is at a very interesting point now. All fans are online fans and terms like "smarks" and "IWC" are redundant. There is a greater disharmony among the fanbase because of it. 

I think things are in a state of flux and nobody really knows what is going to be dominant when things settle down. I think this has made all fans (myself included) very defensive over their favorites. Whatever style ends up in control is going to have it for awhile. 

 

I look at it like the ongoing battle is really a three-way dance between a profit-driven corporation, adults, and children under 10. 

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