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2017 NBA Playoffs: OCTOFINALS

Dolfan in NYC

By Dolfan in NYC
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jaedmc

jaedmc

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I like Utah against Warriors. They play good team ball, and have a monster in the middle. It's not enough to keep Klay, Steph, or KD from just raining shots in, but the games could be fun for three quarters.

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Jiji

Jiji

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50 minutes ago, jaedmc said:

I like Utah against Warriors. They play good team ball, and have a monster in the middle. It's not enough to keep Klay, Steph, or KD from just raining shots in, but the games could be fun for three quarters.

The Jet made a good point that having Gobert protect the paint allows the perimeter defenders to play tighter defense on their men outside. 

At this point I'm just hoping for a competitive series. 

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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Dwight Howard is less like Superman and more like Deadpool in that new teaser trailer. While he's getting ready to save the day his team his getting shot to death.

I was watching the fourth quarter on TNT Overtime, with the Backboard cam. When it ended, there was a kid holding his hand out looking for a five from some of the Hawks. Kinda like at the end of a little league baseball game and you go down the line shaking hands.

They all ignored him. 

I was at a Bulls Game with my son and we were getting our ass beat by the Wizards. You better believe Pau Gasol took a second to slap my kids hand. Classy Spaniard.

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Greggulator

Greggulator

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The Russell Westbrook Revenge Tour was as spectacular as we all could have hoped. I don't remember another one man team quite like that. Kobe didn't make the playoffs during his big one-man-show year and then the following year famously pouted passed in Game 7 against the Suns. Russ went out like a warrior -- completely gassed, going 1 for whatever in the final quarter, but he went down firing.

He would absolutely get my MVP vote. I think a lot of people are overthinking things about this. Dude got a triple-double on a team without anyone who can really shoot and led the league in scoring. Russ had absolutely ungodly numbers in the clutch. He got his team to the sixth seed. He wasn't really near the top in minutes played. It wasn't some constant barrage of empty stat-chasing. Russ did everything he could to get OKC to where they got. They absolutely maxed out with the talent on the roster and it was solely because of Russ.

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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Gregg don't, you'll only upset the Houston Homer. 

Last night's Bulls game was this entire season encapsulated in 4 quarters. From "Hey these guys might be pretty good" to "Oh god no why are they so awful, what are they even doing?" at the drop of a hat.

I spent most of the 4th quarter just shaking my head wondering what exactly they thought they were doing every possession. 

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_MJ_

_MJ_

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The Bulls have so many one dimensional role players. Mirotic just shooting threes and nothing else at 6'10. That Felicio guy was getting rebounds ripped from him and he played weak defense. Canaan tried hard on defense but he couldn't shoot open threes, and he's not the best ball handler. Their lack of ball handler/PG was very glaring that game. Also, if Avery Bradley is going to be the best player on the floor than the Bulls are in trouble. Butler was getting doubled so I know it's tough but the Bulls need all the offense it can get in these games. That game was winnable for them.

As for MVP, I won't get bent out shape about it but my pick would probably be Kawhi. Generally, people do not really give much value to the defensive side of the ball. Kawhi does, and while the Spurs are definitely a better all around than OkC (and maybe Houston), I did not think that roster was a 60 win team. Manu and Parker are role players now; wild. I'd probably go with Harden next because he was putting up just as wild stats as Westbrook on a better team.  Also, if I had to pick any NBA player to win one game it's still Lebron. He's slowing down and this is a regular season award, which the Cavs were sub-par in, so I wouldn't give it to him. He's still great when he's locked in. I won't be upset by Westbrook winning because he really did have a remarkable individual season. I just think Kawhi was more of the complete package (efficiency, defense) on a better team.

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Lawful Metal

Lawful Metal

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I'm not mad at Russ anymore. Yes, his numbers were great, but the only real difference between Westbrook's numbers and Harden's numbers was 2 manufactured rebounds. Westbrook had more points, but Harden had more assists. Harden was first to score 2000 points AND assist on 2000 more points AND he scored and assisted to the tune of almost 57 points per game, better than Westbrook. Harden is much more efficient and takes way less shots to get the numbers too. Oh and he led his team of non-all star role players to 8 more wins than Westbrook.

 I think once you calm down about the triple double stuff (which is a little arbitrary) you see the numbers are a lot closer than you think, and you should give the benefit of a doubt to the player who made his team better.

And sure, the narrative of Durant leaving and Russ is on a revenge tour (despite getting wrecked by KD and the Warriors every time they played) is intriguing, but let's not forget that Dwight Howard left the Rockets too and only left them with one All Star on the roster, and the only real roster moves the Rockets made were to sign two one dimensional off-injured shooters who play no defense and hired a coach who failed spectacularly in his last two jobs and was known for his lack of coaching defense.

and the Rockets won the series not on the back of their 3 point shooting, but on defense and hustle (and Westbrook's horrid shooting in the 4th quarter, or as they say, in the clutch).

(and Patrick Beverley should be an All Star)

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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I love defense so I'd also go with Kawhi. I just love watching him play. I love Russ just because he plays like a psychopath, but for me Kawhi does everything right and it really feels like he's a team guy. Doesn't glory hog, makes the right decisions, busts his ass on both sides of the floor, leads by actions, efficient. You can come up with negatives to Russ and Harden's seasons and style of play despite their legendary stats - but it's harder to do that with Leonard.

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Lawful Metal

Lawful Metal

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1 hour ago, jaedmc said:

I love defense so I'd also go with Kawhi. I just love watching him play. I love Russ just because he plays like a psychopath, but for me Kawhi does everything right and it really feels like he's a team guy. Doesn't glory hog, makes the right decisions, busts his ass on both sides of the floor, leads by actions, efficient. You can come up with negatives to Russ and Harden's seasons and style of play despite their legendary stats - but it's harder to do that with Leonard.

Except his numbers don't even come close to Harden and Westbrook. And individual defense typically means way less than individual offense, especially if you can get your teammates involved. 

Plus, I mean, the Spurs are loaded. Sure, Parker and Manu are old, but they are still champions. LaMarcus Aldridge is a perennial All Star and so is Gasol, and I'd argue they have the best role players to complement them, and the best coach. 

If you subscribe to the argument that Russ did more with less, you have to see that Kawhi did less with more.

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Jiji

Jiji

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Don't the Spurs have better defensive numbers without Kawhi on the floor this year than with him? Crazy, I know, but I'm pretty sure that's something Zach Lowe stated even as he said Leonard was his MVP.

And now for something completely different.

 

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Dolfan in NYC

Dolfan in NYC

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Waiters came to Miami on the vet exception, so technically, he could have come to Miami with Wade.  

However, Dwayne would have literally murdered him by Halloween. And even if he hadn't, this absolutely, positively, never happens: 

dion-waiters.jpg

 

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_MJ_

_MJ_

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8 hours ago, Lawful Metal said:

Except his numbers don't even come close to Harden and Westbrook. And individual defense typically means way less than individual offense, especially if you can get your teammates involved. 

Plus, I mean, the Spurs are loaded. Sure, Parker and Manu are old, but they are still champions. LaMarcus Aldridge is a perennial All Star and so is Gasol, and I'd argue they have the best role players to complement them, and the best coach. 

If you subscribe to the argument that Russ did more with less, you have to see that Kawhi did less with more.

 

6 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Don't the Spurs have better defensive numbers without Kawhi on the floor this year than with him? Crazy, I know, but I'm pretty sure that's something Zach Lowe stated even as he said Leonard was his MVP.

 

Ah. Lets quote that Zach Lowe article to respond:

Quote

Aldridge is the second star, but the Spurs managed just 99.6 points per 100 possessions (and a negative scoring margin) in the 423 minutes he played without Leonard -- worse than any team's offense.

A ton of digital ink has been spilled about why San Antonio's defense was better with Leonard on the bench. Some of it is Parker and Pau Gasol. A lot of it is clearly luck. Opponents shot horribly on wide-open 3-pointers and foul shots with Leonard sitting. Maybe David Lee is really distracting.

What has gotten lost: San Antonio's fatter points allowed per possession figure with Leonard on the floor, compiled mostly against the best opponent lineups, would still rank fifth overall at the team level. That is borderline elite.

No non-Leonard lineup has logged more than 73 minutes. The Spurs have a strong scoring margin without Leonard, just as the Rockets do without Harden, but it's unclear if that would hold up over extended minutes against top competition. (I doubt it would.) I'm not sure we should hold the Spurs' strong bench against Leonard, either.

Leonard's role in San Antonio's offense is perhaps as central to his candidacy, anyway. He is not some wallflower. He averaged 25.5 points per game on 48.5 percent shooting, including a strong 38 percent from deep, and a career-best 7.2 free throws. He used 31 percent of San Antonio possessions, a superstar lift.

Leonard is more of a possession finisher than do-it-alls like Harden and Westbrook, one reason his turnover rate is miniscule. But he is also both starter and finisher on a lot of those trips. He'll zip up from the baseline, run a pick-and-roll, kick the ball to Aldridge, cut to the other side, and launch a catch-and-shoot triple when the shot clock winds down.

Source: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19140550/zach-lowe-picks-nba-mvp-defensive-player-year-rookie-year-more-awards 

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jaedmc

jaedmc

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With five minutes left in the third Bucks were losing 71-46. At the end of the third it was 74-61 and the Raptors look shook. Would love to see a 25 point come back to force a game 7 right now.

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