APRIL 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Casey]

1 minute ago, RIPPA said:

Per Meltzer - the NXT callups that should occur today and tomorrow

  Reveal hidden contents

Nakamura

Almas

Dillinger

Revival (maybe) (He didn't know this one for a fact - speculating based on things he knew/observed)

"My impression is that a lot of guys who lost on Saturday are coming up" - was his exact quote

 

Spoiler

Nakamura I could see on either brand, really. Almas is most definitely going to RAW in the Cruiserweight division. Tye would work well on Smackdown, I think. Revival need to be on Smackdown since their tag team division is floundering now and the Hardys just debuted for the RAW brand.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

1 minute ago, RIPPA said:

Per Meltzer - the NXT callups that should occur today and tomorrow

  Reveal hidden contents

Nakamura

Almas

Dillinger

Revival (maybe) (He didn't know this one for a fact - speculating based on things he knew/observed)

"My impression is that a lot of guys who lost on Saturday are coming up" - was his exact quote

 

I think that second guy on the list is going to be doomed on the main roster about as bad as Apollo Crews.

[mattdangerously]

2 hours ago, Victator said:

Is it too much to hope for a reconciliation between Lita and the Hardys?

Probably.  Does Reby seem like the kind of person who would handle something like that in a mature, responsible manner?

[Casey]

I kind of feel bad for Reby, unless she's on the road with Matt (which I doubt). She already has a young one, and she's pregnant again. And now Matt is back on the road doing that insane WWE schedule again. At least she has Senor Benjamin, I guess?

I mean, I doubt this run lasts more than a year, but that's not the point. Weird timing for the House Hardy

[Reed]

8 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

Probably.  Does Reby seem like the kind of person who would handle something like that in a mature, responsible manner?

In fairness, I don't think anybody could handle their spouse hanging out with, and travelling with their ex-lover, on a regular basis.  

Factor in, Matt was always kinda crazy about Lita.

Like, she'd kick up a fuss. But it's understandable, you know?

[Reed]

9 minutes ago, Casey said:

 Weird timing for the House Hardy

It's like The Bold and the Beautiful meets Duck Dynasty on meth.

[Jiji]

Spoiler

I cannot see Almas being a success on the main roster. He still had a lot of things to work on. Language and character development mostly. I actually feel it may be safer for him just to be a guy on 205 Live than flounder on Main Event or Superstars, whichever one wasn't cancelled. Either way, it sucks this is how it's playing out for somebody who has so much talent. 

 

[Infinit]

I read that JR is back with the WWE on a 2 yr contract. 

[Sammo~!]

He's still under contract with AXS TV until early next year. I'm wondering if he'll still announce for NJPW, or if they figure out a way to get him off of TV. This definitely strikes me as WWE seeing JR doing all this work with AXS and the new World of Sport and WCPW ect and deciding they would rather have him in the company than helping the competition. It was a nice one off to have him call The Undertaker match last night, I will admit, but I don't know if I want him back as an announcer full time. Maybe a talent scout/coach in NXT would be a good role for him?

[Jiji]

One thing I noticed throughout the week, watching NXT, Mania, and half a dozen or so indie cards, for Mania bringing out all the smart, die hard fans, actual wrestling matches with storytelling and slow burns were largely met with silence whereas car wrecks with tonnes of spots were eaten up with great fervor. Nakamura/Roode, Triple H/Rollins (yeah, it was too long), even something like Strickland/Low Ki... they were all slow builds where they tried to work up to big spots and tell a story and the crowd didn't really give a shit. Instead, you see them lose their minds for the Team Ricochet/Team Ospreay spotfest (which was fucking awesome, I don't even care), the three way tag match (which had both storytelling but almost all through fast paced spots), Lee/Dijak, Goldberg/Brock, the ladder match... I just find it interesting.

Then I'm listening to WOR from this morning and hear Dave talk about how ECW was ahead of its time for eschewing slow, long builds and relying more on big dramatic spots and the use of risky elements like chairs and tables... Certainly is interesting. But even a great deal of the spotfests at indie shows were met with apathy too, so it's not a clean a narrative as perhaps I'm painting. The big takeaway is that the matches that got most over were largely built on fast paced, action packed spotfests. Revival have shown you can do smart spotfests though.

Owens/Jericho was another good example of slower paced match focusing on psychology over big spots that didn't get over. Shane/AJ had big spots and got over huge.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Oyaji

[Charlie M.]

3 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I think that second guy on the list is going to be doomed on the main roster about as bad as Apollo Crews.

He needs a fresh start and he actually has personality unlike Crews.

[Charlie M.]

5 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

One thing I noticed throughout the week, watching NXT, Mania, and half a dozen or so indie cards, for Mania bringing out all the smart, die hard fans, actual wrestling matches with storytelling and slow burns were largely met with silence whereas car wrecks with tonnes of spots were eaten up with great fervor. Nakamura/Roode, Triple H/Rollins (yeah, it was too long), even something like Strickland/Low Ki... they were all slow builds where they tried to work up to big spots and tell a story and the crowd didn't really give a shit. Instead, you see them lose their minds for the Team Ricochet/Team Ospreay spotfest (which was fucking awesome, I don't even care), the three way tag match (which had both storytelling but almost all through fast paced spots), Lee/Dijak, Goldberg/Brock, the ladder match... I just find it interesting.

Then I'm listening to WOR from this morning and hear Dave talk about how ECW was ahead of its time for eschewing slow, long builds and relying more on big dramatic spots and the use of risky elements like chairs and tables... Certainly is interesting. But even a great deal of the spotfests at indie shows were met with apathy too, so it's not a clean a narrative as perhaps I'm painting. The big takeaway is that the matches that got most over were largely built on fast paced, action packed spotfests. Revival have shown you can do smart spotfests though.

I think if you're going to go long and try to tell a story, you better be confident that the fans are invested in the wrestlers and the stories. It also has to make sense for the storyline to do a long drawn out match. HHH builds these big grudge matches for Mania but then wants to do his slow match so he can go 25-30 minutes. His match with Rollins should have been 10-15 minutes where Rollins goes nuts, gets all his shit in early before HHH attacks the knee, destroys it for a couple minutes and then they do the finish. That's all the people wanted out of that match.

Another problem with long matches at Mania now is that I find myself always thinking, "this is going so long and there's still 'x' amount of matches left!" That's from the comfort of my own home where I could just turn off the show. I imagine the people there live are probably getting tired, hungry, thinking about traffic, etc. Maybe you want to front load Mania with the long matches and put the quick ones in the second half?

[Sammo~!]

Cena/Miz was anything but a car crash spot fest and that might have gotten the biggest reaction outside of the Hardy surprise. Have we stopped to consider that 30 minute HHH epics are boring, and that Seth Rollins is not sympathetic as a baby face.

 

[Jiji]

8 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

I think if you're going to go long and try to tell a story, you better be confident that the fans are invested in the wrestlers and the stories. It also has to make sense for the storyline to do a long drawn out match. HHH builds these big grudge matches for Mania but then wants to do his slow match so he can go 25-30 minutes. His match with Rollins should have been 10-15 minutes where Rollins goes nuts, gets all his shit in early before HHH attacks the knee, destroys it for a couple minutes and then they do the finish. That's all the people wanted out of that match.

Another problem with long matches at Mania now is that I find myself always thinking, "this is going so long and there's still 'x' amount of matches left!" That's from the comfort of my own home where I could just turn off the show. I imagine the people there live are probably getting tired, hungry, thinking about traffic, etc. Maybe you want to front load Mania with the long matches and put the quick ones in the second half?

I agree on both counts but that answers just the Seth/HHH match. They completely told the wrong story but the story they told still made sense until late when Seth started to get his shit in. There were numerous matches this week that were slow burners with two competent workers that just didn't get anybody's attention. I thought Jericho/KO was a really, really good match but the crowd wasn't into it. People seem invested in Nakamura but the crowd was generally quiet throughout that Roode match too. 

Miz was very over but even the boos for Cena and Nikki weren't all that loud (surprisingly same thing with Roman later on. I guess the crowd was just too tired at that point). Plus, it went 10 minutes with little going on, so I don't think I'd qualify that as a slow burner. 

[Roman]

21 hours ago, Marty Sugar said:

Paul Heyman.

Or Bray Wyatt ditches swampy rednecks and goes full-on Middle Eastern muscle to back him up.

Just repackage them slightly as some voodoo gang tough guys from New Orleans and put them with Wyatt. Wyatt's gotta start all over too, anyway... again.

Perhaps he can just clean himself up and go back to being Husky Harris.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Some of it is Rollins/Reigns not being as over as babyfaces but the other thing that's hurt Hunter is the limitations on violence. Hunter is a very good worker but most of his best matches even in 2000 were HEAVY on blood and violence. He can't do that in this era, he's doing a toned down style of what he used to do with Jericho/Foley/Austin/etc. The best match he's had lately is with Daniel Bryan. It was laid out somewhat similar to this match with Rollins but Bryan is better and the crowd was hotter for him than Seth.

[SirSmUgly]

5 hours ago, Oyaji said:

One thing I noticed throughout the week, watching NXT, Mania, and half a dozen or so indie cards, for Mania bringing out all the smart, die hard fans, actual wrestling matches with storytelling and slow burns were largely met with silence whereas car wrecks with tonnes of spots were eaten up with great fervor. Nakamura/Roode, Triple H/Rollins (yeah, it was too long), even something like Strickland/Low Ki... they were all slow builds where they tried to work up to big spots and tell a story and the crowd didn't really give a shit. Instead, you see them lose their minds for the Team Ricochet/Team Ospreay spotfest (which was fucking awesome, I don't even care), the three way tag match (which had both storytelling but almost all through fast paced spots), Lee/Dijak, Goldberg/Brock, the ladder match... I just find it interesting.

Then I'm listening to WOR from this morning and hear Dave talk about how ECW was ahead of its time for eschewing slow, long builds and relying more on big dramatic spots and the use of risky elements like chairs and tables... Certainly is interesting. But even a great deal of the spotfests at indie shows were met with apathy too, so it's not a clean a narrative as perhaps I'm painting. The big takeaway is that the matches that got most over were largely built on fast paced, action packed spotfests. Revival have shown you can do smart spotfests though.

Owens/Jericho was another good example of slower paced match focusing on psychology over big spots that didn't get over. Shane/AJ had big spots and got over huge.

The problem is probably that no one cares about the narrative lead-up to these matches. 

NXT just spent two years presenting big matches with slow narrative builds that got over because Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte/Becky or Owens/Zayn were actually compelling outside of the ring and in the build up to these matches. 

Not that I watched any of the buildup to WM or the latest NXT show, but did people give even a quarter of a fuck about the buildup to HHH/Rollins or Nak/Roode? Sometimes, high spots are all that you have.

EDIT: Also, jumping off something else Charlie M. said, I miss when WM wasn't afraid to have squash matches and five-to-eight minute mid-card feud enders. 

One of my low-key favorite things about WM 30 is that they weren't afraid to let the Shield just kill the NAO and Kane in two or so minutes. We need more of that on the card. Also, instead of next-night debuts on RAW, have a build to a debut on WM. Joe should have been out there murdering Sami Zayn after three months of promos that he was on his way.

[zev]

 

[Victator]

13 hours ago, Reed said:

He broke one of the first volunteer's ribs didn't he? He was extremely rough with them.

Then again, that came from Puder, who isn't exactly unbiased here.

 

I don't really believe anything Puder says. In his story Kurt needs to be an ogre. 

Watching the segment, Kurt was trying to end it quickly. Probably due to his neck. He said he was more worried about the big guys than he was Puder. So my guess would be he was more aggressive with them. 

I think the important thing in the story is what bad condition Kurt was in. With anybody else you could say he was a liar saving face. But his neck problems are public record. 

I think JBL was a Jekyll and Hyde drunk. Okay/tolerable guy sober, monster when he was drunk. I really do think if Meanie did not have the staples, nobody would have noticed.  Watching the video, it just seemed like he tagged him hard. 

I think wrestling brings out the worst in him. Before coming back to WWE he came across as a great guy. Very candid about stories from his career, even ones that made him look bad. Then he came back to WWE and became Vince's house organ. He has become very difficult to follow on social media. 

That is my take on him. 

[Brian Fowler]

JBL also comes across really well every year at the HoF.

[Ace]

On 4/1/2017 at 1:31 PM, Web Conn said:

Well didn't get New Japan G1Special tickets, I was at Wrestlecon and lost track of time. Anyone here end up with tickets?

Cheap seats on Night 1, 3rd row and meet & greet on night 2.

 

[Ace]

12 hours ago, Sammo~! said:

He's still under contract with AXS TV until early next year. I'm wondering if he'll still announce for NJPW, or if they figure out a way to get him off of TV. This definitely strikes me as WWE seeing JR doing all this work with AXS and the new World of Sport and WCPW ect and deciding they would rather have him in the company than helping the competition. It was a nice one off to have him call The Undertaker match last night, I will admit, but I don't know if I want him back as an announcer full time. Maybe a talent scout/coach in NXT would be a good role for him?

I want JR to be the one to bring Legends' Round Table back.

 

[Niners Fan in CT]

 

[Go2Sleep]

So what are the early picks for the roster re-alignment next week? My guesses:

To Raw: AJ, Harper, American Alpha, Becky

To SD: Roman, Zayn, New Day, Charlotte

[Marty Sugar]

I think in the Shakeup that Cass needs to go to Smackdown...and Enzo needs to get stuffed in a crate that gets shipped to Full Sail University.