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2017-2018 NCAA BASKETBALL SEASON


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15 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

The problem there is that development for basketball leagues doesn't change the simple fact...basketball is the one sport where superstars matter the most. Unlike the other big sports where there's other variables, in basketball, the team that has the best player on the court is probably going to win the game.

This will always make the G-League fail to develop stars, simply because any players who are stars enough to need the development from college would probably already be able to contribute for an NBA team out of the gate- and no matter how much developing the G-League does, the best they can do is turn a fringe player into a rotation guy. MAYBE.

For the G-League to be blown up and develop players, "letting high school seniors go to the G-League" won't help because any high school seniors who'd have superstar potential could just be drafted into the NBA out of high school as it is.  You would have to go further and go past "let high school graduates go to the G-League for a year", and go to following Lamelo Ball's footsteps and say :if a high school freshman, sophomore, or junior REALLY wants to and a G League team would take them, they have the opportunity to drop out of high school and enter the G-League."

The NBA has never had a true farm system.  The NCAA would weed people out when they stayed for three years.  After three years in college, scouts have a good idea of your skillset.  You can't hide your weaknesses for three years.  

Staying in school for three years would dismiss the projects.  They would have to learn at the college level instead of the NBA level and give kids who have good fundamentals a shot at getting drafted.  RIght now, lottery picks are based on upside and the second rounders are all International kids.  Good kids that have good fundamentals and can actually play the game are squeezed out because teams are not looking for talent, they are focused on upside.

When they started letting kids come in after high school, that was the moment it all fell apart.  Kwame Brown and his career 6.6 ppg is the poster child.

They pushed kids into staying one year in college but that has turned out to be a joke.  Kids just try not to get injured while covering their faults long enough to wow scouts with their measurables.  It is not hard to hide your weaknesses when you play your first 10-12 games against poor teams and another 10-12 games against bad teams.

The reason why teams like Toronto find someone like Anunoby or the Spurs with Parker or the Warriors with Green is because they are not locked into upside.  They drafted someone that fits their system and has talent.  Being in the right system with talent that complements the other players helps further development.

Look at the Sixers with Noel and Okafor.  They screwed up their development by trying to make them play outside their skill sets.  Twin towers and then draft Embiid.  Make someone with no range play the four spot.  

I would love to see a true developmental league where kids can learn in a structured format for a year or so before being drafted and/or play in a real minor league system where they can develop and get called up at any time.  Even those kids who have superstar potential could benefit from starting out in the minor league and get called up after 5-10 games.  The whole game of basketball would benefit from better players at the NBA level.  

I am talking about something like baseball or hockey where you send kids down to AAA/AHL for a month before calling them up.

 

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2 hours ago, evilwaldo said:

The NBA has never had a true farm system.  The NCAA would weed people out when they stayed for three years.  After three years in college, scouts have a good idea of your skillset.  You can't hide your weaknesses for three years.  

Staying in school for three years would dismiss the projects.  They would have to learn at the college level instead of the NBA level and give kids who have good fundamentals a shot at getting drafted.  RIght now, lottery picks are based on upside and the second rounders are all International kids.  Good kids that have good fundamentals and can actually play the game are squeezed out because teams are not looking for talent, they are focused on upside.

When they started letting kids come in after high school, that was the moment it all fell apart.  Kwame Brown and his career 6.6 ppg is the poster child.

They pushed kids into staying one year in college but that has turned out to be a joke.  Kids just try not to get injured while covering their faults long enough to wow scouts with their measurables.  It is not hard to hide your weaknesses when you play your first 10-12 games against poor teams and another 10-12 games against bad teams.

The reason why teams like Toronto find someone like Anunoby or the Spurs with Parker or the Warriors with Green is because they are not locked into upside.  They drafted someone that fits their system and has talent.  Being in the right system with talent that complements the other players helps further development.

Look at the Sixers with Noel and Okafor.  They screwed up their development by trying to make them play outside their skill sets.  Twin towers and then draft Embiid.  Make someone with no range play the four spot.  

I would love to see a true developmental league where kids can learn in a structured format for a year or so before being drafted and/or play in a real minor league system where they can develop and get called up at any time.  Even those kids who have superstar potential could benefit from starting out in the minor league and get called up after 5-10 games.  The whole game of basketball would benefit from better players at the NBA level.  

I am talking about something like baseball or hockey where you send kids down to AAA/AHL for a month before calling them up.

 

Even then, it's still the same point.

After three years, people may have a good idea of your skillset- but quite frankly, if a player has superstar potential, teams will know as early as their junior year of high school- and sometimes even earlier than that. Even the horror stories don't change that: Kwame Brown may have only had 6.6 PPG, but Lebron James is the defining star of this generation (and make no mistake, Lebron probably could have contributed to an NBA team if he had dropped out of high school his junior year and entered the draft...possibly even if he had dropped out as a sophomore) .

Any chance to reform the NCAA or the G League will not help, because again: Upside will NEVER go away, simply because basketball is broken in that regard. With football, everything's so compartmentalized  that one otherworldly player probably can't change the game too much. Baseball is so strategy-based and offense/defense is so separated that having the best player on the field may even be a hindrance to a team's success, not a benefit (the other team can aim to not hit to them on defense and intentionally walk them on offense.)  Hockey is close to basketball, but the only position where "having the best player on the ice" truly changes the game is in goalie.  Basketball, on the other hand, is black and white. All other things being equal, the team that has the best player on the court will probably win the game. 

As a result, booking to upside will never change, because the game strategy of basketball is in the books: The team with the best player on the court will probably win the game, so do whatever it takes to make sure you have the best player on the court. If it means tanking, then tank and get the best lottery tickets possible to cash in for a superstar. If it means drafting to upside, book to upside and hope that they become a superstar,...and if players go three years, it's better to focus on the guy who MAY become a superstar but also may flame out than look to the guy who you KNOW FOR A FACT will just be a solid rotation guy. 

The chance of a developmental system- no matter how you do it: NCAA, G-League, high schools or international teams...they're just broken, because basketball, the sport is just broken and teams are smart enough to know how the game is broken. 

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The best thing about this investigations so far is that a decent amount of the teams caught didn't help them one bit.   Clemson is all over this thing and they can barely make up out of the 1st round of the NIT.    Has Seton Hall even had winning seasons?  

Oh and Arizona with coach Sean Miller got on a wiretap paying off a player for $100,000.  Yeah he is fucked

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22559284/sean-miller-arizona-christian-dawkins-discussed-payment-ensure-deandre-ayton-signing-according-fbi-investigation

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4 hours ago, hammerva said:

The best thing about this investigations so far is that a decent amount of the teams caught didn't help them one bit.   Clemson is all over this thing and they can barely make up out of the 1st round of the NIT.    Has Seton Hall even had winning seasons?  

Oh and Arizona with coach Sean Miller got on a wiretap paying off a player for $100,000.  Yeah he is fucked

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/22559284/sean-miller-arizona-christian-dawkins-discussed-payment-ensure-deandre-ayton-signing-according-fbi-investigation

Yeah, that's really the problem. 

Before they go past it, this will likely go past just the traditional powers or title wins.

It's probably going past "even regular tournament teams."

It'll probably go to "yeah, literally every team in a power conference has at least one player taking sneaker contract money. And likely every team on the top mid-major conferences or perennial mid-major powers. And honestly, it wouldn't exactly shock me if every D-I school has at least one player getting sneaker contract money."

This will probably go past the "vacate titles", and past "really punish programs for it", and be the thing for the NCAA to finally say "WE GIVE, OKAY? WE GIVE. YOU WIN. YOU FINALLY WIN. We'll pay the players!"

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LeBron has come out in support of the G League being a true developmental league.  I can only imagine the stuff he sees but keeps quiet with regard to his sons.

 

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/breaking-news-sports/lebron-james-calls-ncaa-corrupt-wants-nba-g-league-become-farm-system-want-skip-college

 

“You look at pros overseas, some of those guys get signed at 14, but they get put into this farm system where they’re able to grow and be around other professionals for three or four years, then we’re they’re ready they hit the national team or when they’re ready they become a pro.
“We’re worried about kids coming into the league early but they’re not ready, then out of the league because of that. I don’t have the answer to it right now, but I’ve kind of been brainstorming a lot. If you look at Messi’s story, he was a professional for like five or six years before he actually became a professional.”

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7 minutes ago, evilwaldo said:

LeBron has come out in support of the G League being a true developmental league.  I can only imagine the stuff he sees but keeps quiet with regard to his sons.

 

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/breaking-news-sports/lebron-james-calls-ncaa-corrupt-wants-nba-g-league-become-farm-system-want-skip-college

 

“You look at pros overseas, some of those guys get signed at 14, but they get put into this farm system where they’re able to grow and be around other professionals for three or four years, then we’re they’re ready they hit the national team or when they’re ready they become a pro.
“We’re worried about kids coming into the league early but they’re not ready, then out of the league because of that. I don’t have the answer to it right now, but I’ve kind of been brainstorming a lot. If you look at Messi’s story, he was a professional for like five or six years before he actually became a professional.”

That quote's a good dream for the G-league, but again- it's a case where the dream would be similar to Europe, but no league in America has the balls to bell that cat.

Heck, Lebron came out and said that "Some of those guys get signed at 14 and put into a farm system", and that's why this will never happen. People could get behind the NBA repealing the "one year out of your high school graduating class" rule and allow high school seniors to enter the draft again...but when you talk about things like this, then you're getting into the one barrier that North American sports will never get past:  "should we allow high schoolers to drop out of high school and sign professionally?"

Right there, you have a big problem- it's a shock people were fine with Lamelo Ball basically dropping out of high school to join Lavar/Leangelo in Lithuania, but if that could happen for the G-League, then you'd have teenagers playing the ultimate All-In move when they're in high school (or earlier- remember that there's ratings of the top players in America as early as SIXTH GRADE): You will either make the NBA and be a millionaire, or you won't and you just ruined your life. And with the money in the NBA, there's a lot of people who'd advise them to drop out in those cases, likely as early as "you're top 10 on the sixth grade list, you don't need an education past elementary school!"

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What's the scene like outside of the top leagues in the US for professional sports? Are there other, like local or state level leagues that these kids can play in if the NBA/NFL/Whatever dream doesn't work out? I know Baseball has a ton of Minor Leagues.

Compare to Europe where most big towns have a professional soccer team, even if they don't play in the Top League; so there are still avenues for players of all skill levels. I actually know a few people who play (or have played,) semi-pro.

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7 hours ago, DangerMark said:

What's the scene like outside of the top leagues in the US for professional sports? Are there other, like local or state level leagues that these kids can play in if the NBA/NFL/Whatever dream doesn't work out?

LOL

 

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7 hours ago, DangerMark said:

What's the scene like outside of the top leagues in the US for professional sports? Are there other, like local or state level leagues that these kids can play in if the NBA/NFL/Whatever dream doesn't work out? I know Baseball has a ton of Minor Leagues.

Compare to Europe where most big towns have a professional soccer team, even if they don't play in the Top League; so there are still avenues for players of all skill levels. I actually know a few people who play (or have played,) semi-pro.

Huge difference- with baseball, almost all of the teams/leagues are affiliated with MLB so there's a feeder system. There are independent leagues like the American Association or the Can-Am League, but they're a fairly sizable minority.

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To be a little less glib, there's no feeder system for basketball outside of the G-League, there's the AHL for hockey, but that is low-level, there's nothing for American football.   

If you don't make it in an American league in one of those sports, your best bets are international leagues.  

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12 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

To be a little less glib, there's no feeder system for basketball outside of the G-League, there's the AHL for hockey, but that is low-level, there's nothing for American football.   

If you don't make it in an American league in one of those sports, your best bets are international leagues.  

Calling the AHL "Low level" is totally absurd. Not only have the vast majority of NHL players plied their trade there it would be completely accurate to say it is the second best league in the world. Low level would be the ECHL or SPHL.

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