2017-2018 NCAA BASKETBALL SEASON

[Greggulator]

2 minutes ago, supremebve said:

That is one of my favorite sports books, and shows how the supposed villains in these situations are often more heroic than the heroes.  A lot of these kids come from nothing, and $150K will legitimately change their lives for the better.  They are worth more than that to these universities, but they set up a system that doesn't let them see any of that money.  There are people who are going to be sent to prison because they wanted to pay a kid who deserves the money.  The system is the problem.  Paying players is the solution.  None of this is a problem unless you refuse to pay these kids for their services.   

I loved that the NCAA just decided to stop licensing itself to video games than to give players a cut. 

I don't even know if they have to pay the kids. They should pay them. But even just letting kids shop for shoe deals on their own or have access to agents/managers when they want would at least help get legitimate agents and people into the fold without these utter scumbags acting like urchins. 

[EVA]

7 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

I loved that the NCAA just decided to stop licensing itself to video games than to give players a cut. 

I don't even know if they have to pay the kids. They should pay them. But even just letting kids shop for shoe deals on their own or have access to agents/managers when they want would at least help get legitimate agents and people into the fold without these utter scumbags acting like urchins. 

Ultimately, yeah, the best answer is letting the kids get paid for their name/likeness.

While they absolutely should get paid, the economic realities of the situation would mean that the top players, the true superstars, still wouldn't be getting paid nearly what they're worth.

But let Colin Sexton get a cut of all the Colin Sexton jerseys that Alabama is going to sell this season.  Let him get paid for signing autographs.  Let him get sponsorships and do ads.  Bring back the videogame and let him get a piece of that.  Etc.

That way, the player gets a lot closer to what he's actually worth, and it doesn't even cut into the universities' profits or endanger their precious non-profit status.

[supremebve]

4 minutes ago, EVA said:

Agree with most of what you're saying here, but I did have to fix the one sentence for you.  Make no mistake, none of these people  are paying kids out of charity.  They're paying them because they think they can profit exponentially off that investment.

I agree, but I honestly don't think that is a problem until they cut the players off from the money.  That is how all business works.  If you are in a competitive field the only way to get the most talent is to pay that talent.  If you want to win at college basketball, you need the best players.  How could you compete at Louisville without cheating?  Kentucky is right down the road with more history, better facilities, a coach who has sent countless players to the NBA, and their also probably cheating.  Why would you pick Louisville over them?

I can't wait to see the amount of snitching that is about to take place.  None of these dudes are built for the amount of jail time that is being discussed, and it's about to be like American Idol up in this piece.  

[Greggulator]

1 minute ago, EVA said:

Ultimately, yeah, the best answer is letting the kids get paid for their name/likeness.

While they absolutely should get paid, the economic realities of the situation would mean that the top players, the true superstars, still wouldn't be getting paid nearly what they're worth.

But let Colin Sexton get a cut of all the Colin Sexton jerseys that Alabama is going to sell this season.  Let him get paid for signing autographs.  Let him get sponsorships and do ads.  Bring back the videogame and let him get a piece of that.  Etc.

That way, the player gets a lot closer to what he's actually worth, and it doesn't even cut into the universities' profits or endanger their precious non-profit status.

The other question with it is then what do players further down the food chain get? My alum (La Salle) is in the A-10. What would players who go there get? Our roster is usually comprised of Philly-area kids who initially went to big schools and then transferred back home for the usual reasons (playing time, homesickness, etc.) and a lot of "shows potential, hopefully develops" types. Best we can get in terms of a freshman recruit is a borderline Top 100 *** type -- usually from Philly and picks us over Temple or St. Joe's. 

The A-10 is one of the ten best conferences. The conference sends maybe one kid to the NBA per year, and its usually a second rounder. 

Then when you go further down the NCAA conference list to like the America East schools, how do they get paid? 

Such a terrible system.

 

 

[Dewar]

Kids should be allowed to turn pro as soon as they finish high school. There's absolutely zero reason why they can't be drafted and then move up through the minor league system like professional hockey and baseball players. Leave college sports to kids who are actually there to get an education.

[supremebve]

8 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

The other question with it is then what do players further down the food chain get? My alum (La Salle) is in the A-10. What would players who go there get? Our roster is usually comprised of Philly-area kids who initially went to big schools and then transferred back home for the usual reasons (playing time, homesickness, etc.) and a lot of "shows potential, hopefully develops" types. Best we can get in terms of a freshman recruit is a borderline Top 100 *** type -- usually from Philly and picks us over Temple or St. Joe's. 

The A-10 is one of the ten best conferences. The conference sends maybe one kid to the NBA per year, and its usually a second rounder. 

Then when you go further down the NCAA conference list to like the America East schools, how do they get paid? 

Such a terrible system.

It's easy.  Pay them what they are worth.  There are perhaps 10 players per year who are true difference makers.  If Kevin Durant is coming out of high school, pay him whatever it takes to get him.  Those America East kids are at school for school for the most part, pay them a percentage of the profits of the program. 

I went to George Mason at the time that they went to the Final Four, and those guys were about as anonymous as I was until they started going on their run.  Coming into college they probably couldn't have demanded a dime, but once they got to the Final Four there were a bunch of new building on campus including a hotel.  They should have seen some of that money.  They are the only reason the school got that money.  

[RIPPA]

9 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I went to George Mason at the time that they went to the Final Four, and those guys were about as anonymous as I was until they started going on their run

You don't understand how old this makes me feel

[supremebve]

1 minute ago, RIPPA said:

You don't understand how old this makes me feel

For the record I was in my mid-20s.  I'm 36 going on 67.

[sabremike]

Best thing about allowing players to be paid: the players may make enough to where they feel comfortable staying in school longer instead of bolting for the pros as soon as they can.

[RIPPA]

45 minutes ago, supremebve said:

For the record I was in my mid-20s.  I'm 36 going on 67.

I was on my first tour of duty WORKING at Mason during the Final Four run

I am old

[odessasteps]

Of all the many many things to dislike about Bob Knight, the fact he donated his Adidas shoe contract money (I think $150k at the time) to the library is one positive that tangibly effected me. 

[Kuetsar]

Not to sound too much like a 19th century British aristocrat here, but they ARE getting paid. Louisville(for example, and I only know because I just looked it up) costs $40,000 a year to attend. So they got the equivalent of some 40k to attend. I know there are huge flaws in the ways athletes are manipulated into basket weaving 101 or what ever, but they have the opportunity. 

But that's beside the point. WHO is going to pay these kids "what they are worth"? You pay one player. you have to pay them all, assuming its the university, not the shoe companies. If you try just pay the elite from the college, on a Monday say, by Tuesday you would have a lawsuit from every other player on the team, and every women's player too, based on Title IX. 

If you just legalize what is happening now, its going to be in the paper(or internet), just what everyone makes, and it will breed resentment, or scheming by subs to get the money by undermining the starter, or guys "missing" blocks if they resent what the starting QB is making say, or an equivalent situation in basketball.

You want to figure out a scheme to give everyone a small entertainment stipend or something to make up for not having a part time job? I could see that working, but anything more could collapse the system. 

[muhammedboehm]

4 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

Not to sound too much like a 19th century British aristocrat here, but they ARE getting paid. Louisville(for example, and I only know because I just looked it up) costs $40,000 a year to attend. So they got the equivalent of some 40k to attend. I know there are huge flaws in the ways athletes are manipulated into basket weaving 101 or what ever, but they have the opportunity. 

But that's beside the point. WHO is going to pay these kids "what they are worth"? You pay one player. you have to pay them all, assuming its the university, not the shoe companies. If you try just pay the elite from the college, on a Monday say, by Tuesday you would have a lawsuit from every other player on the team, and every women's player too, based on Title IX. 

If you just legalize what is happening now, its going to be in the paper(or internet), just what everyone makes, and it will breed resentment, or scheming by subs to get the money by undermining the starter, or guys "missing" blocks if they resent what the starting QB is making say, or an equivalent situation in basketball.

You want to figure out a scheme to give everyone a small entertainment stipend or something to make up for not having a part time job? I could see that working, but anything more could collapse the system. 

If you remove the amateur rule then schools don't have to pay the players a dime. Just allow the players to seek out endorsement deals no different then any other 'entertainer'. Why is it ok for the drama major who might also be on scholarship to be able to get payed for acting jobs while still in school but Joe PG cant?

[supremebve]

2 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

Not to sound too much like a 19th century British aristocrat here, but they ARE getting paid. Louisville(for example, and I only know because I just looked it up) costs $40,000 a year to attend. So they got the equivalent of some 40k to attend. I know there are huge flaws in the ways athletes are manipulated into basket weaving 101 or what ever, but they have the opportunity. 

But that's beside the point. WHO is going to pay these kids "what they are worth"? You pay one player. you have to pay them all, assuming its the university, not the shoe companies. If you try just pay the elite from the college, on a Monday say, by Tuesday you would have a lawsuit from every other player on the team, and every women's player too, based on Title IX. 

If you just legalize what is happening now, its going to be in the paper(or internet), just what everyone makes, and it will breed resentment, or scheming by subs to get the money by undermining the starter, or guys "missing" blocks if they resent what the starting QB is making say, or an equivalent situation in basketball.

You want to figure out a scheme to give everyone a small entertainment stipend or something to make up for not having a part time job? I could see that working, but anything more could collapse the system. 

We live in a country that has figured out how to pay everyone for their work...except for college athletes.  How does any job decide how much they are going to pay their employees.  

You sound like a 19th century British aristocrat.  They aren't getting paid.  Not only are they not getting paid, they are being denied the right to get paid by others.  If a scholarship trumpet player gets hired as a session musician they don't get punished.  They are allowed to get paid.  There are plenty of people on academic scholarships get paid for their work by the school.  The only people not getting paid are athletes.

Who is going to pay them?  The schools, the NCAA, the shoe companies, and anyone else making literally billions of dollars off of their work.

Are you trying to tell me that people don't resent these kids already.  Why don't you think they aren't getting paid already?

The system needs to collapse.  It is unjust.  It is exploiting these athletes for billions of dollars at the cost of their bodies.  We would never tolerate this anywhere else.

[Ryan]

2 hours ago, supremebve said:

For the record I was in my mid-20s.  I'm 36 going on 67.

So, that's the fatal flaw in time travel to the future, you age to what you would be at that time. Disturbing revelations.

[Brian Fowler]

Hell I was a theatre student on a partial scholarship and when I stage managed a play I got paid minimum wage by the college..  

I also one year had a student job cleaning the theater, and, again, the school paid me.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Isn't there a law basically that would prevent them from paying players different salaries and other sports would need compensation also?

[supremebve]

1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Isn't there a law basically that would prevent them from paying players different salaries and other sports would need compensation also?

The entire system is set up against the players who are actually making a profit for the schools.  It is the only place Americans seem to think socialism is justified.  

[odessasteps]

12 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Isn't there a law basically that would prevent them from paying players different salaries and other sports would need compensation also?

Plus, Title IX.

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, Kuetsar said:

Not to sound too much like a 19th century British aristocrat here, but they ARE getting paid. Louisville(for example, and I only know because I just looked it up) costs $40,000 a year to attend. So they got the equivalent of some 40k to attend. I know there are huge flaws in the ways athletes are manipulated into basket weaving 101 or what ever, but they have the opportunity. 

 

This is the biggest most disgusting lie that the NCAA sells. These guys are there to play basketball. By design 98% of their time is focused on basketball. Their education takes a total backseat to basketball. The "education" they receive is a complete and utter sham and the diploma they are given isn't worth the paper it's printed on. Do you really think people who spend the semester practicing all the time and flying across the country for games are getting a real education? No way.

[odessasteps]

I bet most of us, personally or anecdotally, know athletes were told or made to take "easier" classes as to not overburden themselves.

When i was in grad school, we took it as a badge of honor that some of our classes, in popular culture, which often were dismissed as fluff, were put on the athletic department's avoid list. 

[Brian Fowler]

You think a basketball team playing 400 miles away on Wednesday is really getting the full 40k education?

[Niners Fan in CT]

I can only say this, during the offseason at uconn I would see all the ladies and most of the guys around Storrs and it seemed like they were at least attending classes. They would go for breakfast like everyone else and head out, and you'd see them around. But during the season was a different story.

[Greggulator]

My alma had maybe 4,000 kids at the time. I actually had a class with Rasual Butler, who went on to have a 15-year NBA career (and was even in the Big3). I also knew a few other players, too. I wasn't friends with any but at a school as tiny as ours you'd see them around. And a good friend of mine was really plugged into the team. And I'm taking grad classes and have a bunch of friends who are professors or have other jobs on campus and were there when we made the Sweet 16 a few years back. 

The players at my school actually go to classes. They have a really great tutoring program to help them out. (And that does not mean "write papers for them.") We don't have any special athlete housing -- they live in the same dorms we all do. The easy classes are open to anyone. (Everyone tried to get into those classes.) Professors give them a little more flexibility because of the time demands.  But they're still held to pretty high standards. A lot of the kids who come from Philly public schools are behind where the average student is academically, but our school has a 95% acceptance rate. Maybe they wouldn't get in without sports (or wouldn't get a free ride) but it's not that big of a stretch. It's also a Catholic school run by Christian Brothers, whose mission is to educate the poor.

The team that went to the Sweet 16 was like this battle among the players to be perceived as the nicest person on campus. My friend who is a prof taught a few of the players. They would thank him after each class. The team's best player (who came up in insanely hard circumstances -- father is blind because he was shot, brother killed in a drug gang incident, mother arrested for crack possession on a gameday) took school the most serious. There was an in-house competition to get the highest GPA. A few kids were Dean's List -- and kids who actually played, not just the walk-on.

That's not to say there haven't been some problem kids. Our biggest recruit of the past 20 years was a Top 100 kid named Aaric Murray. He was a huge pain-in-the-ass and a huge diva. He thought "tutoring services" meant "person writes a paper for me" and the like. He lasted two years before the coach told him to hit the road. (Which was West Virginia, where he also flamed out.) 

It's not that hard to run an okay program. Our team has made it to one NIT and one NCAA since 1990, but I'll take it if it means we're clean.

[odessasteps]

My idea was to just let a school have a pro team with their name on it. And, while getting paid, players would be entitled to a redeemable scholarship when done playing, sort of like Canadian junior hockey. And then schools could also have real amateur teams too.