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[1st Rd B] HECHICERO vs. KENNY OMEGA

HECHICERO vs. KENNY OMEGA  

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  1. 1. Choose One



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Oh boy. I will def watch some more Omega before voting, as I haven't seen a lot outside of the G1 and Wrestle Kingdom stuff, but if you're gonna vote in this one and aren't too familiar with Hechicero, please please please watch some of the stuff in that play-in thread (especially if you like matwork at all). I love him so much.

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This is a fascinating matchup between a guy that maybe 40 people who will vote are familiar with vs. a guy everybody knows but at least half the board hates.  It's Apathy vs. Antipathy.  WHICH WILL RULE THE DAY?

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I think I'll abstain from voting in this one.

How's that for apathy?

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I will say that I'm one of the more Kenny-positive posters on this board, and I think he had a great year transitioning into working like a top guy in NJPW.  But damn, is anyone in wrestling today slicker on the mat than Hechicero?  He's mesmerizing.  He has a bunch of 10-12 minute matches on YouTube, too, so there's not much excuse for not getting at least a taste for him before voting (presuming you're not someone just spite voting against Omega).

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I like Hechicero a ton, but Omega had an incredible run of matches, plus the not entirely kayfabe significance of winning the G1, the Okada match, and the subsequent worldwide buzz. He made himself a star. Don't feel it's a hard choice.

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I voted Hechicero for two reasons.  One, he's been great all year consistently against a variety of people and you can point to a lot of times where Omega takes a night off. Omega's highs were higher, but I think his lows were lower. That said, I think Omega is way better than he was even 18 months ago.

Secondly, this is a protest vote towards Meltzer's army. I am tired of people (including some of my closest friends) that think because I think Omega vs Okada was great but flawed means I hated it and that I don't know what I'm talking about. So now I hate that match in a way I've never hated a match in my life.

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Kenny Omega is a spectacular athlete. Kenny Omega is and has been a terrible wrestler. I watched the okada match and, like, no one botched anything for 45 minutes so that totally figures to be a Meltzer Six Star. At the same time, for watching 45 minutes of match, it's bad news that I can't recall almost any of it. The one thing I do remember was the terminator stance before the dive, because ugh. He almost gets credit for dropping all the obnoxious shit he was doing the last time I saw him (the dome match where he like did the rev up the arm forearm scrape). He's still the living sigil of why I gave up on Japan though.

Plus, Hechicero fucking rules, so there's that, too.

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I'm the opposite. I remember everything that happened in that 45 minutes. It had a great build with a few holy shit spots that led to a spectacular finish and one of the guys never hit their finisher.

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7 hours ago, Matt D said:

You people are the worst.

Seconded.

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I will join the parade that will say whenever I tell someone New Japan isn't my style of wrestling, I get snobby comments about my taste, and have thus started to actively dislike a large portion of their roster due to that. Omega is one of the the upper level of New Japan workers, but like most of New Japan, the style does absolutely nothing at all for me. 

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1 hour ago, El Dragon said:

I will join the parade that will say whenever I tell someone New Japan isn't my style of wrestling, I get snobby comments about my taste, and have thus started to actively dislike a large portion of their roster due to that. Omega is one of the the upper level of New Japan workers, but like most of New Japan, the style does absolutely nothing at all for me. 

Not saying that this is what you are doing but this what some folks are doing. There's a bit of an anti-NJPW movement in part because of Meltzer's opinions. Some people feel they need to choose sides. Why because it's part of being on the internet? It's possible to like Shibata but hate Tanahashi or like Rusev but hate Kevin Owens. 

Can you give an example of these snobby comments. I remember discussing the Omega/Okada match and simply asking in the thread, okay, if this isn't for some people then lets discuss why not. The criticisms were mostly based around finisher spamming which I found to be ridiculous.  One guy never hit his finisher. But if you want to talk about match structure, Omega/Okada did tell a story.  I'm not sure what AJ/Cena at Royal Rumble told. I'm not even sure if I can buy your argument that there is a WWE style and a NJPW style.  How can they be so different when for the most part they are lifting shit from one another? John Cena and Kevin Owens are doing straight PWG matches. AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Nakamura are borrowing (borrowed) heavily from Japan. 

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I don't see a whole lot of difference between the WWE and NJPW main event styles right now.  They've cross-pollinated to such a degree, its mostly just the nuances that differ.  WWE has even started doing a lot of 10-count spots, which is by far my least favorite NJPW trope.  And once Nakamura hits the main roster, I'm sure everyone will want to do their own clean break shtick.

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In my own defense, I gave up on Japan in 2012. My transcribed armpit fart at the Meltzer rating has more to do with the irony of that angle of the match's reception, rather than some larger anti-meltz sentiment. I just think it's funny that he had this established review system in place for years, and then broke it when it suited him instead of being more discerning more often. It's like a kid adding moves to Rock Paper Scissors so he always wins*.

*i acknowledge it's possible that this has only happened to me.

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20 hours ago, El Dragon said:

I will join the parade that will say whenever I tell someone New Japan isn't my style of wrestling, I get snobby comments about my taste, and have thus started to actively dislike a large portion of their roster due to that. Omega is one of the the upper level of New Japan workers, but like most of New Japan, the style does absolutely nothing at all for me. 

I mock your value system and have a high disdain for your opinions and viewpoints!

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I've never been much of a NJPW fan, but I started watching again with Wrestle Kingdom and have really enjoyed what I've seen thus far. A lot of the style does bother me (especially the Jr. Heavyweights and their non-stop no-selling of big moves), but there's some amazing stuff. Kenny Omega has to be given credit for not only busting his ass (literally and figuratively) in the ring, but with his goal to help bring NJPW to a worldwide audience...moreso than it has in the past.

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9 hours ago, BL88 said:

In my own defense, I gave up on Japan in 2012. My transcribed armpit fart at the Meltzer rating has more to do with the irony of that angle of the match's reception, rather than some larger anti-meltz sentiment. I just think it's funny that he had this established review system in place for years, and then broke it when it suited him instead of being more discerning more often. It's like a kid adding moves to Rock Paper Scissors so he always wins*.

*i acknowledge it's possible that this has only happened to me.

Did the kid do this for real?

 

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We used to include atomic bomb. (It was the late 70s)

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Skip to 58s for how it's really done.

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