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NJPW New Japan Cup 2017 - 3/11 to 3/20


Raziel

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Omega-Ishii was just fan-freaking-tastic. Interested to see how many snowflakes it gets from the Meltz~! Will he go five after giving five to Elgin-Naito? Probably not, but maybe. I thought it was slightly better than Elgin-Naito, but I'm a Omega and Ishii mark, and arguing about which match was better than another is so subjective. Y'all are right in that it did kinda meander at the start before they kicked it up a gear, but that seems kinda common in long matches (see Nakamura-Styles from WK 10).

Shibata-Suzuki was great in its own different, but fun, way. Grumpy men trade shots.

I think Ishii's gonna win and get that title shot he deserved after beating Okada at the G1 tourney last year.

This wrestling makes me happy. I dunno what it is about WWE, but it seems kinda samey to me - same people, same matchups, feuds seem to go on for 2 1/2 years each. This is the good stuff, and anybody missing this is really missing out.

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23 hours ago, Beech27 said:

Regarding the matches: I thought SANADA impressed; Suzuki looked pretty bored; Omega/Ishii was nuts. Like, I don't think there was a single hold, no limb work, just bombs. (Only one finisher actually hit, though.) I was really, really into it live, but I'm not really sure how good I'd say it was yet, or how well it'll hold up without the "who's gonna win?" thrill. Overkill at times, some goofy selling, some no selling, but a total spectacle. Very much an Omega main event, with everything that implies. How you feel about that is probably how you'll feel about this. 

 

13 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The first ten minutes of Omega and Ishii I could have done without but it ended up being a very good match and crazy finish, the crowd was hyped for the final ten.

 

8 hours ago, jstout said:

Omega-Ishii was just fan-freaking-tastic. Interested to see how many snowflakes it gets from the Meltz~! Will he go five after giving five to Elgin-Naito? Probably not, but maybe. I thought it was slightly better than Elgin-Naito, but I'm a Omega and Ishii mark, and arguing about which match was better than another is so subjective. Y'all are right in that it did kinda meander at the start before they kicked it up a gear, but that seems kinda common in long matches (see Nakamura-Styles from WK 10).

All of this.

I loved the hell out of this match.  Definitely more so than Okada/Omega, and it's treading the same ground as Naito/Elgin.  Agreed about the opening as well*, but everything after was wonderful.  Omega was great, but Ishii put on a goddamn virtuoso performance.  I don't know how anyone can look at his body of work the last few years and not say he's in the top handful of wrestlers in the world period.

(*Sidebar: I have this issue with a number of recent NJPW "epics" - the general sense that there's an unwavering commitment to the way one "should" open a match, regardless of where they're gonna end up later, and it can really just makes things feel like everyone is going through the motions and killing time until the good stuff.  This is part of the reason I loved Ishii/Okada so much last year: probably more than a little because of the condensed time for an average G1 match, they cut out all the wandering around outside/milking count-outs/exchanging holds and limb work that ultimately goes nowhere filler and just got right to the heart of the action.

I'm not saying every match should (or even could) go 0-100 right off the bat, and that those little touches don't matter (because most of the time they should), but let's be adults here: do you really need to fuck around with low dropkicks and selling the leg when it's gonna get ignored for 80% of the match, or wait out a few 19 counts every match?  Just focus on what the body of the match is gonna be anyway; there's actually probably a benefit in the end there in being able to let things breathe a little bit more in the heat of the moment, and not openly abandoning selling and basic psychology just to get from point A to B.

Anyway, other 3/12 thoughts!)

Juice Robinson is at that point where my level of investment in his matches is directly related to who he's facing, and Yujiro isn't cutting it.

I'm digging both SANADA and YOSHI-HASHI right now, and thought they both did well here.

Suzuki/Shibata did basically what you'd expect, so there's that.  The tough guy exchanges have been wearing thin on me lately, and as much as I love MiSu, he sure was not interested in selling a goddamn thing here.  Thought the finish was great though.

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8 hours ago, Cyanide said:

Juice Robinson is at that point where my level of investment in his matches is directly related to who he's facing, and Yujiro isn't cutting it.

I'm digging both SANADA and YOSHI-HASHI right now, and thought they both did well here.

Suzuki/Shibata did basically what you'd expect, so there's that.  The tough guy exchanges have been wearing thin on me lately, and as much as I love MiSu, he sure was not interested in selling a goddamn thing here.  Thought the finish was great though.

One reason I've never been all-in on praising Minoru Suzuki over the years is precisely what you've pointed out.  He's incredible when it comes to aura and dishing out sadistic punishment, no argument there.  When it comes to selling, it really seems to depend on his mood.    I suppose the feud is going to continue, but this match didn't really get me excited to see more.  

That being said, I felt Sanada and Yoshi-Hashi clearly had the second-best match that evening.  They have a nice rivalry in the sense that Sanada should be able to beat Yoshi-Hashi in most cases, but Yoshi-Hashi seems determined to always be a pain in the ass about it before all is said and done.  

There's a small part of me that thinks that Yujiro can somehow still make the leap in improvement that Yoshi-Hashi did, but that sliver of light is getting dimmer and dimmer.  Ahh, who am I kidding, I think that ship has long since sailed.  He's just a lousy wrestler at this point.  Juice had very little to work with.  

Omega-Ishii was excellent.  Not much more to say.  I could see Shibata taking this tournament, but giving it to Ishii would be so much more satisfying.  I can't see him winning the G1, but he's certainly earned this potential accomplishment.  

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Second Round wrap-up:

Spoiler

Thought Ishii/SANADA was the cream of the crop here - very good bout, probably one of my favorite SANADA matches ever (go figure).  More energy and combativeness than I'm used to seeing out of him, where more often than not he just looks bored and waiting to hit his spots to me.

EVIL/Nagata and Shibata/Juice were good contests as well.  EVIL looked great against a motivated Nagata, and Shibata let Juice do his thing in a fiery match-up before shutting it down.

Yano/Fale is what you would expect.  Fun comedy vs eminent straight man affair, but nothing more.

Glad Ishii is still alive, but as much as I'd like to see a CHAOS civil war pop off, I doubt he's going any further.  Shibata definitely seems like the smart money for a fresh matchup with name value for Okada*.  EVIL remains the wildcard, I guess, and there's no way Fale takes this thing.

(*Of course, this assumes the eventual winner opts for the heavyweight gold.  I guess you can't rule out, say, Ishii winning and opting to take on Naito, or EVIL taking it all and going back after the NEVER belt by challenging Goto for some reason, but none of those options seem to make a ton of sense.)

 

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I can see a case for all 4 remaining winning the whole thing, even Fale, who went to Finals before, and he has some wins over all 3 champs at some point in time over the last couple years.  Ishii winning will surely send him after Naito and the IC Title, where anyone else winning will go for the Heavy, even EVIL.  I'm not entirely sure why the NEVER title is included in the shot, as having the IC belt is enough to open up booking so you can have the stablemate of the Heavy champ win and avoid a interstable match.

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10 minutes ago, Raziel403 said:

I can see a case for all 4 remaining winning the whole thing, even Fale, who went to Finals before, and he has some wins over all 3 champs at some point in time over the last couple years.

Okada lost to three people in the G1:

  • Ishii (went nowhere because CHAOS)
  • Marufuji (got a title shot at King of Pro Wrestling and then the NJPW/NOAH relationship ended)
  • Fale (gave his win back in a non-title bout at a show headlined by a YOSHI-HASHI match, and has done fuck all in the five months since)

People get lost in the shuffle with booking all the time, sure, but recent history doesn't leave me with the idea Gedo and co. think highly enough of Fale to put him back on that big of a stage when Okada desperately needs a fresh opponent.  Unless it somehow works out as a Bullet Club angle that finagles Kenny back into the title scene, I guess.

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Well, Fale getting to the finals to lose to Nakamura, who took the IC shot, roundabout led to Styles coming in and winning the Heavy belt, so it's not like it hasn't been done before.

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Interesting finish to Shibata-Ishii. NJPW needs finishes like that that sorta come out of the blue. Fale beating Evil really surprised me, considering Evil is a bigger name in the grand pecking order and a member of LIJ.

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EVIL has looked great throughout and I'm really high on him now. Bummed he went out to Fale, who really just seems like a monster for Shibata to overcome in the finals at this point, but stranger things have happened.

The main was like watching my dad get beat up. The pasting each other with stiff shots routine has really run its course for me, and Shibata has some of the worst fighting spirit comeback movements going - like he can't wait to spring back up off whatever, and look as absurd as possible heading back to the mat. But Ishii looked great once again, and at least got a warrior's death. I loved him busting out new stuff here and in the Omega match in trying to catch his opponent off-guard and one-up them in the process.

I wasn't hugely invested in him winning this, but he's such an easy guy to slip through the cracks with the booking as of late, it'd be a shame if he just went back to tag filler status. Maybe he'll end up challenging Naito after all (since both the finalists seem slated for heavyweight shots), but we'll see.

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Ishii got to win many (most?) of the tough guy strike exchanges, and passed out rather than suffer a pin or submission. So I'm hopeful that level of protection means he's in line for something. (Honestly though, the former felt like an in-match spoiler to me. Like, ok, no way is Shibata losing if he's getting dropped by so many strikes.)

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On 3/16/2017 at 2:42 PM, Salads said:

I googled Yujiro to remind myself how many years he's been wrestling and stumbled across this

Holy fuck, I popped HARD at this. That's the best thing Yujiro has done since... well having a great theme song he doesn't even use anymore.

I've avoided this thread as I've been watching everything that's been posted on World and I obviously lag well behind. Ishii was clear MVP of the tournament. The Omega match didn't live up to the hype yet was still great. The opening act needed to be better and I feel like Kenny winning strike exchanges didn't really make sense. I get that he wasn't initially until he had worn down Ishii, but I still don't even think later on he should've been coming out on top in those portions of the match. Suzuki mailed in his performance, but I pretty much thought that was going to happen. He's so wildly inconsistent. Has anybody noticed if he's likelier to not give a shit if he's losing? Tana/Evil was really good and Evil's progression is super promising. Aside from his Fisher Price prop, I'm really digging his presentation and style. He's come a long way since what I saw of him from his ROH excursion. I enjoyed Tanahashi's performances in the LIJ tags, trying to bring an intensity that is often lacking in those undercard matches. All of those Tanahashi/LIJ tags were really fucking good and different enough to keep interesting. Juice is also coming along and the crowd is taking to him. He's being pushed at just the right pace. Sanada I am a bigger fan than most on here. He's got a great look, presence, and he's super fucking athletic and smooth in the ring. There are some issues with storytelling that need to be ironed out but he's just turned 29 and has time. He's also learning from Naito, which doesn't hurt at all. The final went beyond my expectations and it was certainly one of Fale's better outings. Shibata's selling is super frustrating, as he's so talented at it but only when he chooses to actually stick with it. I didn't mind him going into super saiyan mode at the end, more hitting his repeater elbows in the corner immediately after Fale worked on that exact arm for nearly the entirety of the match. The kickout on the grenade got a great reaction after it finished opponents earlier in the tournament. Borderline great match from those two and I'm very happy Shibata gets a big title challenge.

Good tournament though perhaps as a whole did not meet expectations between some of the better guys getting eliminated in round 1 and a few matches not quite delivering.

Kitamura is greener than turtle shit and unsurprisingly was busted for steroids in his amateur days but he's got awesome intensity to go along with his incredible physique. Only thing about him is he's already 31 (and fucking Oka is only 25!) and has mileage on his body from amateur wrestling. The current crop of young lions is really promising though. Too bad about the injuries to Henare (!!!!) and Kanemitsu. It's almost like Jushin Liger is really good at everything including training dudes.

On 3/19/2017 at 6:34 PM, Beech27 said:

Ishii got to win many (most?) of the tough guy strike exchanges, and passed out rather than suffer a pin or submission. So I'm hopeful that level of protection means he's in line for something. (Honestly though, the former felt like an in-match spoiler to me. Like, ok, no way is Shibata losing if he's getting dropped by so many strikes.)

This is definitely evident elsewhere. It's basically my main criticism of the Omega/Ishii match too. I feel like the balance of control in New Japan matches too often spoils the outcome.

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