Americo Rocca vs. El Talisman (3/29/85)

[Phil Schneider]

Americo Rocca vs. El Talisman (3/29/85)

[tim.]

Good match.  Definitely a bottom half match for me on this set but no doubt it was good.  The endings to the first two falls were really cool.  Third fall had some nice dives and counters and I really liked the ending: Rocca's got his submission in and he just keeps wrenching on it, the crowd slowly builds up heat waiting for Talisman to tap and they just explode when he finally does.

[Graham Crackers]

This was fun but other than the pop for the finish it lacked something spectacular that could have made it more memorable.  It had a nice layout, simple and effective transitions, and some good looking offense. The only weak moment was one of Rocca's bumps over the top rope where it really just looked like he was jumping over the rope. Tim hit the nail on the head, this is towards the bottom of the list so far but is far from bad.

[Curt McGirt]

Talisman's neon green and purple gear is about five years ahead of its time. Robert Williams who painted the first Guns N' Roses cover (before censorship) said that was the most off-setting color clash ever but to me it just brings back memories of the early '90s when I was a kid, and I love it. Actually the more I watch it looks like yellow and purple. I've got a bit of color-blindness and the video is only for this set fantastic so I'll pretend. 

 

Una caida is pretty nondescript. There's a nice submission to end the second that I've never seen. It sounds like Dr. Morales calls it a Gory Especial but that is clearly not it. The dive sequence with both men getting in at the nick of time due to the fast-counting ref is nice. Rocca finally puts on some kind of fucked-up sub and the crowd explodes. Even in a match that seems so inconsequential, the response to it is fantastic and seeing Rocca wearing the belt that actually has "TALISMAN" engraved in silver on it is awesome. Perfectly fine match but not gonna finish high.

[Matt D]

I really liked Talisman's offense the last time we saw him and Rocca had the series with Cota which I liked too. This Welterweight belt looks like the fanny pack of pro wrestling belts. Rocca's second (is that Cochisse?) has a really cool Rocca shirt. For title matches in the States today they should steal the "guys pose with the belt between them before the match" thing.

 

Rocca, seems to me, to generally be a guy who is good at vying for position on the mat, always shifting around and going for a counter. From what I've seen, that's so important in lucha title match first falls, because otherwise, it feels too much like your move, my move. The end result is that this stuff isn't very pretty or "high end" but it is visceral with a sense of struggle. The first pin is a little sudden but I liked the rope running sequence that led to it and it did feel like clever gamesmanship. One key sidestep is all it takes in a title match. One mistake capitalized on.

 

Second fall is a matchling. It's as simple as this. Talisman gets an early shot and goes for the pin. Kick out. He goes off the rope twice and eats Robinson backbreakers. He goes off the rope a third time and gets an armdrag (then doing some fun selling of it). Finally, he goes off one last time and does a crazy repositioning around Rocca until he locks in a submission. Pretty brisk. I liked the idea of the fall but they sure could have given it a bit more meat. I think it was shorter than the reply at the end of the first one. That's a little unfair since one nice thing about these matches is that a fall can pretty much end at any point. When we're ranking these, that's not the sort of thing to consider though. I like Rocca's limp dead fish selling on the mat after he submits and Talisman's playing to the crowd has been lovely in this match. 

 

Third fall has Talisman following up on Rocca's back. His little dip under hook flowing backbreaker is pretty cool. Rocca's selling is nice to see too. Rocca gets a few flash pin attempts. I REALLY liked the way Talisman tried to block the bridge on the roll up off the ropes. Talisman shuts all this down with his awesome forward drop from a pile driver position. They start trading nearfall and submission attempts here. I especially liked the roll through the 'rana as a nearfall. Talisman's dive is perfectly fine and his second waving the towel to wake him up is great. Rocca recovers first and hits the ring to just jump right on Talisman and that gives this a real trainwreck feel a lot of these dive segments don't quite have. Both guys are selling it huge with the flying towel adding a nice visual. Rocca's expression before hitting the bulldog when both guys hits the ring is the grittiest thing in the world. I couldn't get a good screengrab with the VQ though. the riches keep coming too with Talisman's arm flail selling of it and then the second attempt, reversed, with Rocca's crazy selling expression. Talisman misses a second rope sommersault senton and Rocca does a revenge camel clutch and then a really nasty looking half crab and that's the title change as the fans erupt. 

 

I liked a lot in that match but I think on this set it probably will be hovering around the halfway point at best. Extremely Solid but not particularly memorable with a very brisk second fall is probably the best way to put it. I think both guys helped their stock in my power rankings though.

[Exposer]

This was one of those "short, short, long" title matches. I generally like the "long, short, long" format more because it allows the first fall to be a more crucial part in building the match and that often includes a lot of mat work. The mat work was good here. I'm always a fan of small detailed work so when Talisman was kneeing Rocca in the midst of an arm bar I marked out. However, I really enjoyed the rope running exchanges here. They were given a little more weight here and I thought the fluidity and pacing was great. The finish of the first was well done too. I actually thought the second fall was going to end with Talisman hitting those two dropkicks but they went a few more minutes. I liked the transition into the crazy back breaking submission to end the fall. That hold was wacky as hell. The third fall was really good. The pacing was great here and everything was spread out very well. This wasn't much different from other title matches in the "short, short, long" format as far as what they did but how they did it was better than a lot of others. Rocca sold his back pretty well throughout and stuck with it. The diving sequence was simple but effective. I liked the last few minutes with the missed senton leading to the near fall and two submissions. The pop was nice at the end too. Overall, this was a pretty strong match. The pacing was excellent. Again, this would have built better I think in the "long, short, long" format but I thought it built fine. I might give this roughly three and half stars or so. 

[Lee B.]

I kept waiting for this match to become awesome, and it did a bit by the third fall.  The first fall seemed a bit awkward at times, due mostly to Talisman's kind of weak offense, just kind of bumping into Rocca instead of really hitting him hard.  But some of the matwork was kind of cool in the first fall.  The second fall was quick, and Rocca sold his back extravagantly to begin the third fall.  Was Cota the second for Talisman?  His head is oddly shaped, but I liked the vigorous towel waving after the dive/plancha sequence (which was bordering on awesome).  The final submission was good; I liked that Talisman tried to hold out, but there was really no escape.  Overall, this was kind of meh without much hate and will probably end up in my bottom third. 

[soup23]

Tailsman is cagey but still spry for his age as he exemplifies in the opening caida with the cartwheel and spinning headscissors. Rocca quickly takes the fall after that sequence when Tailsman gets too showey for his own good and gets rolled up. Rocca gets a couple of nasty backbreakers in the second fall but Tailsman is able to show his resourcefulness and even things up with a nasty looking submission. The second fall felt pretty abrupt. Third fall heats up nicely with a big dive by Tailsman. Rocca responds with one of his own. The dives and misses built up to a good climax and when Rocca reaches the pinnacle and wins with a submission, the crowd responds in kind and it feels deserved. Good match for sure but in a set this loaded, this is probably destined to be bottom 25 when all is said and done. (***1/2)

[goc]

This was a lot shorter than I expected it to be especially considering how long this segment is on the DVD. I liked this a lot actually, although I don't even know if it will place in the top half of my ballot. I liked the finish to all the falls quite a bit and the matwork was pretty good but it never really hit that next gear to take it from good to great.