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Raw Is 友達の祭典 - 2/13/17


Niners Fan in CT

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just here to agree with everyone else that the Jericho/Owens segment was magnificent; loved how genuinely emotional Jericho seemed before the turn, in effect turning himself face for the three minutes needed to get the fans booing Owens for the beat down. The list reveal was fantastic, the camera work was spot on with the "I just made the list" sign directly in the background was a nice bonus. Loved breaking the glass, which has now been passed down from Marty/Shawn, to Jericho/Shawn, to now Owens/Jericho, you can tell both guys are steering this one, it's been so good.

I hope they find away around Goldberg just squashing Owens for the title; either have the back to serious Owens get some stuff in, or have Jericho cost him the match right at the bell

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2 minutes ago, Victator said:

I've seen some crummy Belly To Belly suplexes. But never had a problem with Bayley's version, I was looking for something to hate when some idiots were putting her over Rey Mysterio. But her work is tight.

I'm not saying that it's not.  I'm saying that her finisher doesn't consistently look like a finisher to the point where it is problematic. 

Work wise and personality wise, she's about as perfect of a babyface as there has ever been in history.

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Belly to Bellys rarely look good.   even Magnum's looked kinda weak to me as a kid.   If she did it faster with a bit more snap, I'd like it more.

She has the guillotine choke as an alternate finisher for Nia- I'd like to see her use that one a bit more to get wins on non-giantesses.

 

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JT's refusal to spell Bayley's name correctly is the most disappointing thing about this thread.

Okay - I was gonna let this go but I'm going on two hours plus of Insomnia 

The concept of a "finisher move" is inherently stupid yet something we have all accepted in pro wrestling.

At its heart the superkick is just a kick (same for the Brogue Kick). 

Apparently the Figure Four works only in one direction and we are to ignore that little kids put their legs in the same position everyday at daycare but Hey Criss Cross Applesauce isn't as deadly.

The most devastating "finish" in wrestling right now is someone being so stunned by shiny objects that they can't kick out of a roll up

I'm not sure why suddenly a Belly to Belly is a bridge too far.

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On 2/14/2017 at 3:07 AM, RIPPA said:

JT's refusal to spell Bayley's name correctly is the most disappointing thing about this thread..

It is three in the morning.  You are at home safe and sound and I have the Ops Group Sierra from 1st AD on my VOIP complaining about a network outage.

I am training the rough hands that will shed blood on your behalf while you are on Twitter in the middle of the night.

A little slack would be greatly appreciated. :)

On 2/14/2017 at 3:07 AM, RIPPA said:

I'm not sure why suddenly a Belly to Belly is a bridge too far.

I'm not sure why either.  I just wanted to comment that I'd like Bayley's finisher to have a little more zip on it and did not realize that this thread was trapped with a hornet's nest with firecrackers strapped to it.

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1 hour ago, J.T. said:

It's the logic of a flash finisher that has been winning championships for decades suddenly being questioned apparently because a woman uses it that baffles me.  Maybe I am losing something through the translation of his dislike for women's matches.

 

I think anyone of any gender, with the exception of maybe Brock tossing guys across the ring, using a belly to belly as a finisher in 2017 would be ridiculous. Thirty years ago, the belly-to-belly literally was the most high-impact move you'd see in a lot of Magnum's matches. The crazy shit that is being attempted, executed and kicked out of in matches today make it hard for me to suspend belief in a so-so looking belly-to-belly putting someone away.

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1 minute ago, RIPPA said:

At its heart the superkick is just a kick (same for the Brogue Kick). 

A kick is capable of knocking someone out. Especially a kick someone practices to make great. 

Its like saying Roger Clemons was just tossing a baseball. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Apparently the Figure Four works only in one direction and we are to ignore that little kids put their legs in the same position everyday at daycare but Hey Criss Cross Applesauce isn't as deadly.

 Not really the same, as you don't have someone putting pressure on four points of the the leg. Turned on your stomach the pressure is reverse. 

 

 

5 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

 

5 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

The most devastating "finish" in wrestling right now is someone being so stunned by shiny objects that they can't kick out of a roll up

The F5?

 

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People have gotten away from using stuff like belly-to-bellies as finishers for years now, but it's not like Congress passed a law saying finishers can only be certain things. Everything's cyclical, what's old is new again. If pushed and presented in the proper way, a headlock could be a finisher, so what does it matter? On a different, if related, note, wrestling needs an iron claw as a finisher again.

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6 minutes ago, jstout said:

People have gotten away from using stuff like belly-to-bellies as finishers for years now, but it's not like Congress passed a law saying finishers can only be certain things. Everything's cyclical, what's old is new again. If pushed and presented in the proper way, a headlock could be a finisher, so what does it matter? On a different, if related, note, wrestling needs an iron claw as a finisher again.

 

But why risk life and limb pulling all sort of high-risk shit out of your bag, only to end it with that? It's either taking away from the high spots or it's taking away from the finish in my eyes. 

Anyway, no, it's not a mortal sin. I just didn't like it as a finish, mere minutes after she couldn't put her down with the top rope frankensteiner. It's like, a crutch shot to the tits does nothing but stagger you, but the belly to belly kills you dead? Doesn't work for me.

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3 hours ago, OSJ said:

Where the hell is my ban hammer when I need it? Everyone is entitled to an educated opinion, however, your first sentence is one of the most ignorant statements I've read on this board in twenty years, (and considering some of the people that used to post here, that covers some serious ground.)

 

 

I'm still here! Ahahah!

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The only thing I would've done different with KO/Jericho is have Owens hit the superkick as the first move. Maybe that would've been a little too heavy handed with the barber shop call back, but it would've had more impact imo.

Not enough people recognizing the other great call back tonight, though... Emma's homage to Seven.

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1 minute ago, Go2Sleep said:

The only thing I would've done different with KO/Jericho is have Owens hit the superkick as the first move. Maybe that would've been a little too heavy handed with the barber shop call back, but it would've had more impact imo.

This would've actually been pretty cool. The kick, and the headfirst throw into the Jeritron. 

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7 minutes ago, Fallacy! said:

 

But why risk life and limb pulling all sort of high-risk shit out of your bag, only to end it with that? It's either taking away from the high spots or it's taking away from the finish in my eyes. 

Because you don't do the high-risk shit in every match, so you can't use the high-risk shit as a finisher. You can say the high-risk stuff sets up the finisher, which doesn't have to be super-damn killer because the opponent's been weakened by the other stuff. We're at the point where everybody's gotta have a finisher, for the opponent to kick out of to build drama or for the fans to yay/boo when the finisher is finally successful, but not every finisher by design has to be explosive, or head-droppy, or anything.

Anything can be sold as a finisher. Belly to belly = opponent dropped, knocks their air out, can't recover in time to kick out in three seconds. Sounds perfectly plausible to me.

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This is a company where hundreds of matches have been won with The People's Elbow or The Worm. One of the most destructive MOVEZ in the promotion is Stephanie's face slap. Considering those options, a good, quick suplex, however you want to name it, is a more than adequate finish.

 

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1 hour ago, Fallacy! said:

 

But why risk life and limb pulling all sort of high-risk shit out of your bag, only to end it with that? It's either taking away from the high spots or it's taking away from the finish in my eyes. 

Anyway, no, it's not a mortal sin. I just didn't like it as a finish, mere minutes after she couldn't put her down with the top rope frankensteiner. It's like, a crutch shot to the tits does nothing but stagger you, but the belly to belly kills you dead? Doesn't work for me.

It was cumulative. 

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So why did Owens turn on Jericho before the biggest match of his life? This feels like Fuji betraying Demolition before they lost the titles. Or is it more Savage picking a fight with Hogan as champion. Title be damned, he hates that son of a bitch?

Do WWE realize Ric Flair did not lose the title every week in the eighties? I don't think he had an eighties run shorter than a year. Minus the New Zealand title swap with Race that the NWA did not acknowledge until the nineties. 

Right now Charlotte is closer to being Jeff Jarrett than her dad,

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