RIPPA Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 It was easier to restart a thread than have OSJ run in in three days after we have all moved and be all BEFORE THIS GETS OUT OF HAND LET ME SPEAK ON THIS~! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 That got hot quickly....lol. What the fuck was that guy even talking about? Haha...thanks for reshuffling the card. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 And now with a sufficient amount of coffee in my system (no need to approve my posts, Rippa)... Since my XFL post is on the closed thread, long and short of it the 30 for 30 special was pretty good. Living through all that I didn't detect much bullshit from Vince or others. I still love that it introduced He Hate Me as he was a big star. The fact it gave him another opportunity at the NFL soon after (along with Maddox who won SB with the Steelers) indicates it wasn't a total waste of time. It was surprising to even hear Vince admit he was wrong. The dinner with Ebersol was heartwarming because it shows how good of friends they are. It's so good that Dick is thinking to put Vince in his will, now that's saying something. The issues XFL had could have been prevented and easily remedied. Prepare the players more, have gas in the generator and maybe not have that much sleaze. It also came at a time where the Attitude Era was still wildly popular but was slowly starting to wear thin. And with egomaniacal Vince running things it was doomed to fail. In a PG environment with good football it might have a had a better chance. Or just work with an established league to offer presentation enhancements and he could have saved tons of money. The fact that every now and then he considers giving it another shot is part cause for concern and part "Well, if he learned he lesson..." Now I just hope this thread doesn't get shut down so people can actually read this. Either way, I swear this is the last I post about it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 51 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said: The fact that every now and then he considers giving it another shot is part cause for concern and part "Well, if he learned he lesson..." If he didn't learn after the Snake Canyon Jump and then the bodybuilding league and then XFL and then WWE Films (which is the biggest success out of all of them and even that's meager), he'll never learn. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: If he didn't learn after the Snake Canyon Jump and then the bodybuilding league and then XFL and then WWE Films (which is the biggest success out of all of them and even that's meager), he'll never learn. I feel like he keeps trying other things because he's really insecure and desperate to be seen as more than just a wrestling promoter. Somewhere deep down, he really hates pro wrestling and hates that it's the only thing he's good at. That's just my Sidney M. Basil armchair analysis. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I thought it was great also. I was telling my girlfriend during the show that I almost guarantee the XFL would fare better today. Football is hotter than it was back then, yet the ill will toward Goodell and co. is at an all time high. Fantasy Football is its own cottage industry. And you make a great point about WWE being a PG product now, so the cheerleader sleaze and all that will be gone. I also think you made a great point in the closed thread about maybe working with the NFL rather than against it. Vince is Vince, but he probably learned pretty quickly that the NFL ain't Crockett and this ain't 1988. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Yuppie Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, NikoBaltimore said: The issues XFL had could have been prevented and easily remedied. Prepare the players more, have gas in the generator and maybe not have that much sleaze. It also came at a time where the Attitude Era was still wildly popular but was slowly starting to wear thin. And with egomaniacal Vince running things it was doomed to fail. In a PG environment with good football it might have a had a better chance. The idea of the XFL is a good one, and I do think in today's PG-era, it might not alienate potential viewers quite as forcefully: Less emphasis on the cheerleaders, no dirtball Opie and Anthony pregame show, etc. As far as rules changes, it doesn't seem like rocket science. Use some of the collegiate rules that give the college game a more wide-open style than the NFL, like wider hashmarks and the 25-second play clock (XFL used 35, still less than NFL but not quite as short as the college clock). I also don't think using wrestlers in promo packages was a bad idea, but the execution was terrible. The Rock, for example; instead of cutting a Rock promo, I'd have had him open Week 1 saying, "Before I was The Rock, I was national championship-winning Miami Hurricane Dwayne Johnson. And if I wasn't wrestling Kurt Angle for the WWF Championship this weekend, you can bet I'd be sacking quarterbacks in the XFL." A very small change that I think could have made a world of difference in the presentation. Ultimately though, you're right Niko. Vince's ego doomed the league from the start. He went with what he knew, which got us embarrassing stuff like the staged Jesse Ventura-Rusty Tillman "feud." It's also ironic Vince so aggressively attacked the NFL, as I've read him in other interviews say he learned his lesson in 1996 to not discuss competitors. The Billionaire Ted stuff actually led to some viewers tuning into WCW. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 If anything, I learned from the other thread that the Raw/SDL guard rail/barricades are practically rock solid. I guess I just never thought about those things having such little give, but I always thought they were really padded at least. I've never sat ringside to find out for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, Craig H said: If anything, I learned from the other thread that the Raw/SDL guard rail/barricades are practically rock solid. I guess I just never thought about those things having such little give, but I always thought they were really padded at least. I've never sat ringside to find out for myself. The only time I could tell it was padded was when every now and then people would try to slap them like they were in ROH (happened more when Punk and Daniel wrestling, at least the times I noticed) Never would have expected them to have less give than if it was just guardrail. But if it was just guardrail who's to say Finn wouldn't have bonked his head as it pushed back. Regardless of barricade it was still a dangerous and ill-advised move to take. And thanks for the XFL responses, folks. Lot of good points in them. Iron Yuppie's take on wrestlers doing promos made me really wish they went that route. And I have no problem admitting I really liked the cheerleaders. Sure, looking back the sleaze was too much and some aren't nearly as hot as I remember them. But at that time while knee-deep in the Attitude Era? Sure, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, NikoBaltimore said: The dinner with Ebersol was heartwarming because it shows how good of friends they are. It's so good that Dick is thinking to put Vince in his will, now that's saying something. I'm not shocked that they would be really good friends. Reading the Oral History of Saturday Night Live (Dick Ebersol) took control of the show a couple years in after Lorne Michaels left and Jean Doumanian was dumped), Ebersol sounds a lot like Vince McMahon. He would carry a baseball bat around the offices, get into screaming matches with talent, and constantly be photographed at various NYC nightspots always with a different "stunner" or young model at his side. The guy sounds like the Vince McMahon of NBC! 14 minutes ago, The Iron Yuppie said: Ultimately though, you're right Niko. Vince's ego doomed the league from the start. He went with what he knew, which got us embarrassing stuff like the staged Jesse Ventura-Rusty Tillman "feud." It's also ironic Vince so aggressively attacked the NFL, as I've read him in other interviews say he learned his lesson in 1996 to not discuss competitors. The Billionaire Ted stuff actually led to some viewers tuning into WCW. I read Bob Ackles (longtime CFL exec) biography once because he was a big part of the XFL and I'd never read much at the time on the subject (This was prior to the oral history turning up a while back) and what really stood out to me was how quickly everything had to be put together and that seems like it doomed the project from the start more than anything. It was less than one year from being announced before it began. You look at the NHL right now (The only major sports league that is currently expanding) and they talked about expansion for the better part of a year before announcing the process had begun in 2015, then okayed a franchise in 2016 which is finally going to begin play in the 2017-18 season. So that's the better part of 3 years for ONE TEAM to begin playing. Then you look at the XFL and it was less than a year to get EVERYTHING going. It's so Vince in that it's basically "I had an idea, let's do it RIGHT NOW!" (The Invasion, NXT (the show), the rebirth of ECW, brand split). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NikoBaltimore Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, caley said: 'm not shocked that they would be really good friends. Reading the Oral History of Saturday Night Live (Dick Ebersol) took control of the show a couple years in after Lorne Michaels left and Jean Doumanian was dumped), Ebersol sounds a lot like Vince McMahon. He would carry a baseball bat around the offices, get into screaming matches with talent, and constantly be photographed at various NYC nightspots always with a different "stunner" or young model at his side. The guy sounds like the Vince McMahon of NBC! He very much was the McMahon of NBC, good call on that. But I'm personally glad these two are close friends. Their teamwork brought Saturday Night's Main Event and as a kid watching that I could I'm forever grateful for these crazy guys teaming up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Iron Yuppie Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Dick Ebersol even rejuvenated Saturday Night Live in a similar fashion to Vince launching WWF as a national promotion. SNL was on its deathbed after the disastrous Jean Doumanian era, so Ebersol strayed from the Not Ready For Prime-Time formula of the original run to hire established names like Martin Short and Billy Crystal. I see that as being somewhat parallel to Vince taking WWF national with Hulk Hogan, who was crazy-over in AWA and pretty fresh from a prominent role in Rocky 3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The 30 for 30 was pretty good. I remember liking the XFL when it was on. I remember being psyched because originally the NY Hitmen were supposed to play at Shea Stadium so I would have totally gone to a home game or two if that happened. But who wants to trek all the way out to the Meadowlands in the middle of February? The biggest problem with the XFL was it became an extension of the WWF and that's all people saw. If Vince was just an investor instead of the face of the damn league, I think it could have survived maybe a couple of seasons. There were a couple of Sunday afternoon games they had on that weren't too bad either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I think the most Vince thing about the XFL was that he announced the kickoff date with absolutely nothing planned. He lucked out that Ebersol wanted to put him on TV. Saved him a ton of legwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 For the life of me, I cannot understand why anyone thought XFL would be a draw from day one. Leagues take years to build from the ground up and XFL only had NFL castoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Well they had the WWF and NBC marketing machines behind them, so i guess it was easy to convince folks with smoke and mirrors. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nofuture Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 They got 50+ million to watch the first game so they must have done something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: I thought it was great also. I was telling my girlfriend during the show that I almost guarantee the XFL would fare better today. Football is hotter than it was back then, yet the ill will toward Goodell and co. is at an all time high. Fantasy Football is its own cottage industry. And you make a great point about WWE being a PG product now, so the cheerleader sleaze and all that will be gone. I also think you made a great point in the closed thread about maybe working with the NFL rather than against it. Vince is Vince, but he probably learned pretty quickly that the NFL ain't Crockett and this ain't 1988. The problem is that the ill will to Goodell and co. is at an all-time high in large part due to things that "FOOTBALL" can't change.- specifically, the concussion issues and the fact that pro football is possibly unsafe at any speed due to how big, fast, and strong players are. Between Goodell's problem and the NCAA's problems, the most likely way that WWE could have a chance at making the XFL work would have to be: 1. Mandatory Wellness Testing on par with the WWE's. You use steroids or PEDs of any form, you're banned for the season or until it's completely out of your system. (And you do this knowing there's a VERY good chance that the smaller players likely turns fans off more- if not also the "unsafe at ANY speed" making you need to go all out and make it a professional flag football league.) 2. Take from the boat of the Pacific Pro League startup and be a place for high school/pre-NFL draft players to sign early instead of staying in the NCAA (and directly go after the NCAA's issues with player compensation vs. "but...the scholarship IS their payment!" claim.) It'd also help make the players smaller and faster. The other problems are harder- fantasy football is a cottage industry, but if the XFL built around "make fantasy points count for the real stuff" that'd be so gimmicky it'd inevitably suck. To be honest, if an XFL were to start, the better option would probably be to take the XFL concepts and try and start a basketball league instead (smaller rosters, larger talent pool, no serious minor league system to speak of like pro football, enough of a fanbase and widespread arenas that you can get any number of teams and be able to carve some niche, it's been proven from the ABA that a good basketball competitor with a different style could even get the NBA to merge with them). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiztor Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 maybe the interest this special sparks will convine WWE to put all the XFL games up on the Network. I've got a set of DVDs that i purchased online that somebody burned off their TiVO. i'd REALLY like to upgrade them. That, and the potential Network copies would be every game, instead of just the ones that aired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zakk_Sabbath Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 While I agree with some of the points you make, I think people hate Goodell for stuff that isn't inherently concussion related. Deflategate, bumbling the handling of certain domestic violence issues, arbitrary fines for celebrating TDs, "protecting the shield," controlling the media narrative through their TV deals, pandering to veterans and those affected by breast cancer etc. Maybe I should have said ill will from their audience is at an all time high, rather than just the general public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 4 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said: While I agree with some of the points you make, I think people hate Goodell for stuff that isn't inherently concussion related. Deflategate, bumbling the handling of certain domestic violence issues, arbitrary fines for celebrating TDs, "protecting the shield," controlling the media narrative through their TV deals, pandering to veterans and those affected by breast cancer etc. Maybe I should have said ill will from their audience is at an all time high, rather than just the general public. Of course- but at the same time, though (and trying to dance around the subject with how badly the last thread flamed out)...be fair. Most of those things except for Deflategate and arbitrary fines for celebrating TDs could have a case against the WWE for similar problems (and Deflategate, which depending on whether you're a Patriots fan or Patriots hater, could be seen as "They're punishing the best team in the league for arbitrary reasons just because of how good they are and not wanting the cream to rise to the top!" vs. "They're punishing the Patriots and FINALLY killing their push as the top team in the league, listening to how much we hated them since Spygate!"...which sounds similar to a lot of complaints by fans about WWE as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSJ Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 hours ago, RIPPA said: It was easier to restart a thread than have OSJ run in in three days after we have all moved and be all BEFORE THIS GETS OUT OF HAND LET ME SPEAK ON THIS~! I am old and slow, don't make fun. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Mojo Rawley would have been the greatest XFL / WWE crossover guy if he had been around during the XFL era. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, Ultimo Necro said: Mojo Rawley would have been the greatest XFL / WWE crossover guy if he had been around during the XFL era. Nah bro...Roman Reigns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 2 minutes ago, Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 said: Nah bro...Roman Reigns. "THEY HATE ME" 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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