ALL ENCOMPASSING STAR WARS THREAD

[(BP)]

Seen at Disneyworld last week. 

[Victator]

I went to Kroger and found a blade builders light saber for two dollars on clearance, I go to Target and find more blade builders stuff deeply discounted and a lot of the deluxe dolls are discounted. I ended up buying a lot of it. But Star Wars has seen better days. There is a reason George Lucas did not make a Star Wars movie every year.

He could have kept making Star Wars movies in the eighties, but had the foresight to shutter things minus minor TV projects. Quality aside, people were excited about the prequels. Now new Star Wars movies are taken for granted. 

[Craig H]

Blade Builders has been around for awhile and is being phased out, hence why all of it is getting clearanced out. The same happens with many of the more premium figures too. Neither are indicative of the health of the franchise.

[Bustronaut]

Yeah, like Craig said, they're winding down the old lines in anticipation of Christmas and the next movie/TV series(es).  Additionally, overall toy aisle space has shrunk significantly across the board.

[Technico Support]

On 7/10/2018 at 12:38 PM, TheVileOne said:

Everyone acting sanctimonious over the Star Wars bullying is getting annoying. Someone made a whole documentary about why George Lucas is a piece of shit for ruining Star Wars with the prequels. And there are entire segments in the film trashing on Jar Jar Binks.

 

 

On 7/18/2018 at 11:11 PM, mystman said:

Thank God this brave artist is out here carrying water for Disney. Poor guys. They sure need the support.

And I'm saying this as someone who LIKED The Last Jedi. But I'm so tired of seeing people act as the PR department for billionaires at the expense of paying customers.

Another thing, Kylo Ren's whole deal in TLJ was "Kill the past". So did this artist even see the facking movie?

 

On 7/19/2018 at 7:08 PM, Victator said:

Thank you for saying this. People are so eager to prop up the evil empire. Maybe its part of being an authoritarian. Backing whoever has the most power. Nothing against @The Natural for posting it. Just a thought I had when I first saw it the other day. 

How can anyone read that comic strip and come away with "the guy who drew that is defending Disney?"  The artist is calling out awful fans for being shitty human beings.

The point is that there's an objectively awful segment of the fanbase who is harassing actors.  ACTORS!  For having the temerity or starring in a film they didn't like, OR in some cases, the unmitigated gaul of just being cast.  These fans are god damn lunatics and deserve to be ridiculed.

Look, I found the prequels to be awful films and a disappointment.  But that's not on Jake Lloyd or Ahmed Best.  That's on George Lucas.  And regardless, none should be harassed into feelings of suicide over a dumb space movie. 

The absolute best thing about Last Jedi is that it murdered the expectations of these manchildren and then peed on the corpse.  Adults can watch it and feel like, "holy shit, that's a grown up Star Wars movie."  And these incel chucklefucks can continue to post angry Youtube videos.  Win-win.

[hassan80636]

4 hours ago, Victator said:

 There is a reason George Lucas did not make a Star Wars movie every year.

Yeah. Because he is an artist and had a vision for his creation.

He may not be a very capable artist. Or director.

You may not care for the prequels.

But the man had an idea, a vision he wanted to get out there and be told in movie form.

I applaud him for that.

 

[Victator]

7 hours ago, Technico Support said:

How can anyone read that comic strip and come away with "the guy who drew that is defending Disney?"  The artist is calling out awful fans for being shitty human beings.

Could it be the part where it portrayed Disney as an all knowing deity defending these poor put upon actors. There is no other message to get away from it

 

7 hours ago, Technico Support said:

The absolute best thing about Last Jedi is that it murdered the expectations of these manchildren and then peed on the corpse.  Adults can watch it and feel like, "holy shit, that's a grown up Star Wars movie."  And these incel chucklefucks can continue to post angry Youtube videos.  Win-win.

Gilligan cut to a year later "Oh yeah we need the man children, not to mention actual children." 

People can get as mad as they want, but in the end, Disney needs them way more than they need Disney. Especially since they are burning out the casual fans by releasing six hour movies once a year. I think Solo was only seven months later. 

The comic strip was straw man garbage typical of our culture now. Where people go for the simplest answer that requires the least thought. 

 

7 hours ago, hassan80636 said:

You may not care for the prequels.

I know you were not speaking to me specifically but I enjoyed the prequels for the most part. Even if visually it is hard to return to in places. 

[Matt D]

There's a difference between shitting on the Prequels and what we've been seeing lately. There are similarities too. It's okay to express the nuances involved. It's ok to hold elements of the current fanbase accountable and to note those differences and to hold the previous fanbase accountable and to note the similarities. It's ok to support the actors/creators when they should be supported. It's ok to give credit to Johnson for creative decisions and not Disney. It's okay to note that the movie wasn't perfect. Hell, it's even okay to sometimes defend Disney when they do something right on this issue (though I'm not seeing a whole lot of that). 

I don't get how any of this is complex. If people are being terrible human beings, call them out for being terrible human beings. People can be terrible human beings for a lot of different reasons and in a lot of different ways. That there's a corporate entity involved doesn't make them more or less terrible. It's not rocket science.

[Technico Support]

9 hours ago, Victator said:

The comic strip was straw man garbage typical of our culture now. Where people go for the simplest answer that requires the least thought. 

How is it a straw man argument?  That shit literally happened.  These actors were harassed by people with an unhealthy personal investment in these movies.  Aside from that, I can't say it better than @Matt D just said. 

[Victator]

5 hours ago, Technico Support said:

How is it a straw man argument?  That shit literally happened.  These actors were harassed by people with an unhealthy personal investment in these movies.  Aside from that, I can't say it better than @Matt D just said. 

The part where every bad thing in their lives is because of those darn evil Star Wars fans.  Shit like "Jake Lloyd stopped acting because of what Star Wars fans did?" I mean c'mon really? You think that is why he stopped acting. Or blaming a guys suicide attempt on it. Or drawing a sad George Lucas because he took a billion dollar buy out from Disney.

It sounded like someone had the Kylo Ren gag and needed to build to it. 
 

7 hours ago, Matt D said:

There's a difference between shitting on the Prequels and what we've been seeing lately.

It has been a decade since Episode 3 so of course it would be different.  George Lucas had enough sense not to engage with the goons and just did his work. 
 

[Zimbra]

But, the comic literally only mentions things that happened directly as  result of the Star Wars films.

So instead of arguing against the comic, you made up your own version that better suits the argument you wanted to make.

I feel like there's a name for that....

[Victator]

12 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

But, the comic literally only mentions things that happened directly as  result of the Star Wars films.

So instead of arguing against the comic, you made up your own version that better suits the argument you wanted to make.

Well no, I am disputing these things being the result of those mean old Star Wars fans. I see what you are going for and its cute. But does not really jibe with what I wrote.

You know we have a quote feature. You can quote things and point out exact things you think I am wrong about. Instead of being vague and hoping nobody notices. 
 

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, Victator said:

The part where every bad thing in their lives is because of those darn evil Star Wars fans.  Shit like "Jake Lloyd stopped acting because of what Star Wars fans did?" I mean c'mon really? You think that is why he stopped acting. Or blaming a guys suicide attempt on it. Or drawing a sad George Lucas because he took a billion dollar buy out from Disney.
 

 

46 minutes ago, Victator said:

Well no, I am disputing these things being the result of those mean old Star Wars fans. I see what you are going for and its cute. But does not really jibe with what I wrote.

You know we have a quote feature. You can quote things and point out exact things you think I am wrong about. Instead of being vague and hoping nobody notices. 
 

Literally the first few hits for "why did Jake Lloyd retire" link to stories where he himself admits it was due to Star Wars related bullying.  Go ahead and Google "ahmed best suicide" while you're at it.  Here, I'll save you some keystrokes.  Straight from the mouth of both actors actors involved and readily available.  You can't just deny something to win an internet argument.  It's right there.  Or will you now say that both are lying and exaggerating? 

Oh, John Boyega dealing with Twitter trolls urging a boycott of the film didn't happen?

Kelly Marie Tran deleting her Instagram account over Star Wars related bullying because of her race also didn't happen?

The Daisy Ridley one is questionable because she deleted her IG over harassment because she dared speak out against gun violence.  But you'd be ignorant to think angry Star Wars nuts weren't on that bandwagon.

I just don't get it.  You can literally look this shit up.  You gonna tell me it's all fake news now?

[mystman]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

 

Literally the first few hits for "why did Jake Lloyd retire" link to stories where he himself admits it was due to Star Wars related bullying.  Go ahead and Google "ahmed best suicide" while you're at it.  Here, I'll save you some keystrokes.  Straight from the mouth of both actors actors involved and readily available.  You can't just deny something to win an internet argument.  It's right there.  Or will you now say that both are lying and exaggerating? 

Oh, John Boyega dealing with Twitter trolls urging a boycott of the film didn't happen?

Kelly Marie Tran deleting her Instagram account over Star Wars related bullying because of her race also didn't happen?

The Daisy Ridley one is questionable because she deleted her IG over harassment because she dared speak out against gun violence.  But you'd be ignorant to think angry Star Wars nuts weren't on that bandwagon.

I just don't get it.  You can literally look this shit up.  You gonna tell me it's all fake news now?

It's not that there aren't terrible fans and that these shitty things didn't happen to these actors. Its that it feels like Disney is using toxic fanboys as a shield against legitimate criticism. "You dont like The Last Jedi? Youre probably one of THOSE fans". 

[Craig H]

I don't fucking understand this bullshit. Both here, in the WWE Evolution thread, and elsewhere. This complete fucking inability to just admit you were wrong or you misinterpreted something or whatever. It's just double down after double down. We live in an age of information where actual facts are right there at everyone's fingertips, but people don't give a fuck and would rather just make up their own shit instead. It's infuriating. 

None of this even touches on this...

On 8/7/2018 at 11:52 AM, Victator said:

I went to Kroger and found a blade builders light saber for two dollars on clearance, I go to Target and find more blade builders stuff deeply discounted and a lot of the deluxe dolls are discounted. I ended up buying a lot of it. But Star Wars has seen better days. There is a reason George Lucas did not make a Star Wars movie every year.

He could have kept making Star Wars movies in the eighties, but had the foresight to shutter things minus minor TV projects. Quality aside, people were excited about the prequels. Now new Star Wars movies are taken for granted. 

which again is you taking your own belief and applying it to reality as if it's a fact. It's not. There's a very simple explanation for why you found discounted toys and it doesn't have to do with what you think.

BTW, Victator, you of all people have some nerve to talk shit about why someone wanted to commit suicide or why other people blame someone else for a very bad time in their life.

12 minutes ago, mystman said:

It's not that there aren't terrible fans and that these shitty things didn't happen to these actors. Its that it feels like Disney is using toxic fanboys as a shield against legitimate criticism. "You dont like The Last Jedi? Youre probably one of THOSE fans". 

Can you point to when Disney used toxic fanboys as a shield against legitimate criticism? What legitimate criticism are we even talking about? This is the same company that took the word and urging of an incredibly toxic online personality and then fired James Gunn, but they're also the company that uses other toxic people as a shield against criticism? I can't possibly be alone in thinking that makes no sense.

[Dolfan in NYC]

Please don't make me have to close the god damned Star Wars thread. 

[Beech27]

16 hours ago, mystman said:

It's not that there aren't terrible fans and that these shitty things didn't happen to these actors. Its that it feels like Disney is using toxic fanboys as a shield against legitimate criticism. "You dont like The Last Jedi? Youre probably one of THOSE fans". 

Not to be harsh, but: Based on what? Has Disney released statements to this effect? I know people feel that way; but I don't see anything to suggest those feelings are evidence based. Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams have commented on toxic fan behavior/backlash, but I don't think Disney or Lucasfilm has. And if they have released such statements, I certainly don't think they state or imply anything about how the movie performed or was received. I think, frankly, that this is one-sided feeling, that Disney has already made back the money they spent buying the Star Wars property, profited immensely when you weigh each film's budget/revenue, merch, etc., and that they are basically unconcerned with YouTube critics DEMOLISHING or OWNING their movies, so long as the cultural omnipresence of the franchise and Disney itself continues unimpeded. 

And I'm not defending Disney, or saying their takeover of the entertainment industry is a good thing. (It's not!) I liked TLJ quite a bit; there are legitimate reasons why one might not. But I think fans that feel Disney is using them or spiting them are imagining things.

[mystman]

4 hours ago, Beech27 said:

Not to be harsh, but: Based on what? Has Disney released statements to this effect? I know people feel that way; but I don't see anything to suggest those feelings are evidence based. Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams have commented on toxic fan behavior/backlash, but I don't think Disney or Lucasfilm has. And if they have released such statements, I certainly don't think they state or imply anything about how the movie performed or was received. I think, frankly, that this is one-sided feeling, that Disney has already made back the money they spent buying the Star Wars property, profited immensely when you weigh each film's budget/revenue, merch, etc., and that they are basically unconcerned with YouTube critics DEMOLISHING or OWNING their movies, so long as the cultural omnipresence of the franchise and Disney itself continues unimpeded. 

And I'm not defending Disney, or saying their takeover of the entertainment industry is a good thing. (It's not!) I liked TLJ quite a bit; there are legitimate reasons why one might not. But I think fans that feel Disney is using them or spiting them are imagining things.

Well, I consider Abrams and Johnson "Disney", because they're employed by them. If they didn't agree with what the directors were saying, they'd shut them up.

But you're right. The top brass haven't directly said anything, so I'm really just speculating. It's just the current atmosphere just leads to the perception of it being Last Jedi Fans vs. Assholes and no in between.

 

 

 

[Bustronaut]

Any product put out by a company is an explicit endorsement of the product by the company.

[Beech27]

1 hour ago, mystman said:

Well, I consider Abrams and Johnson "Disney", because they're employed by them. If they didn't agree with what the directors were saying, they'd shut them up.

But you're right. The top brass haven't directly said anything, so I'm really just speculating. It's just the current atmosphere just leads to the perception of it being Last Jedi Fans vs. Assholes and no in between.

That atmosphere exists, my point is just that it's fans (the assholes, mostly) creating it. Directors--whether speaking as themselves or employees--defending a product and criticizing behavior is completely different from attacking fans. People only perceive it that way when they've internalized fandom to such an extent that a piece of mass media entertainment has become inexorable from their identity. (And fwiw, Johnson has talked about his creative decisions ex-post-facto to an almost exhausting extent, so I don't think anyone could suggest he's hiding behind a shield of "only bigots hated it.")

But yeah the discourse is toxic, still, which is annoying. I like Star Wars, and I like talking about Star Wars--especially when it's big and beautiful and ambitious and weird and cheesy sometimes kinda stupid. It'd be nice to do that without conducting a referendum on society.

[Victator]

On 8/8/2018 at 4:20 PM, Craig H said:

BTW, Victator, you of all people have some nerve to talk shit about why someone wanted to commit suicide or why other people blame someone else for a very bad time in their life.

Whoa I don't care about that other toy stuff one way or another. I was just making conversation after buying some toys cheap. But I most definitely feel sympathy for Ahmed Best and his mental health struggles. I am sure that the blow back in 99 did not help him in anyway. I also know from my own personal experience and in talking to others, that it is not one thing when someone gets to that point. But that does not make for good meme fodder. 

I also did research for an hour trying to find a more indepth conversation about his struggles. But only found the click bait articles. 

Craig I sincerely apologize, I did not know talking about cheap Star Wars toys (which I bought and shared with my young family) and critiquing a meme upset you so much. I was a little angry at first. But some of that was me projecting. I realized I must have really hurt you for you to attempt to make a personal attack against me. 

That said, I enjoyed a lot of Force Awakens. I think fan societies have a habit of giving assholes the largest mic and ignoring all the great things fans provide each other. 

[Super Weak Machine]

In 30+ years of Star Wars fandom, the prequel trilogy is the only thing that really bothers me. I can handle—and in other films often even enjoy—bad production, bad dialogue, bad acting. . .but with those, I just flat lose interest. I'll happily watch 4-8 any time they're on, every time, without question.  With the prequels, I watch part of them, then I find I'm not having fun, shrug ( ↓ ), get up and go do something else.

[Eivion]

I don't really recall the prequel trilogy too well save for finding the ending of Episode III hilarious. I remember thinking they weren't good, but I never hated them. Still can't find myself terribly interested in rewatching of any of them.

[The Natural]

On 1/21/2018 at 12:27 PM, The Natural said:

This sequence from Rogue One: A Star Wars Story kicked all kinds of ass.

My favourite Star Wars scene. Darth Vader mauling the fuck outta Rebels.

[Matt D]

I honestly starting to think that some of the TLJ hatred is part of a Russian disinformation campaign.