Victator Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 11 hours ago, Cristobal said: In someone or another's podcast, possibly Jericho's, Heyman recounts cutting a promo and Dusty saying "Where's the money?" If Bryan can't wrestle, then Bryan putting himself over Miz, or threatening him, doesn't lead to any payoff. At this point even half crippled Bryan has more value than Miz. I don't mind heels talking shit but as a viewer I hate seeing faces (or anyone) hold back intentionally, I don't need shoot garbage but something people at home thought of. Miz's whole deal with Bryan is jealousy. Quote The last thing Bryan needs is ANOTHER concussion, especially a self-administered one! I'm not sure how he would give himself a concussion throwing a kick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIPPA Posted January 4, 2017 Author Share Posted January 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, Victator said: I'm not sure how he would give himself a concussion throwing a kick. You typed Bryan kicked Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 That's why I kicked your Bryan out from under your Bryan!!!!!!! 20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Yo dawg I heard you liked Bryan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 58 minutes ago, RIPPA said: You typed Bryan kicked Bryan Tribute to Owen Hart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 42 minutes ago, piranesi said: That's why I kicked your Bryan out from under your Bryan!!!!!!! You bastard that was my joke, I'll kill you!!!!! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 2 hours ago, piranesi said: That's why I kicked your Bryan out from under your Bryan!!!!!!! Inside a steel Daniel Bryan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greggulator Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 Except AJ cheap shots dudes when their back is turned/lured Cena into a trap with The Club/brags about it constantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted January 4, 2017 Share Posted January 4, 2017 The heel in this feud is better than goody two-shoes, "give me a title match because of who I am, and you only beat me because I was injured" John Cena. At least the heel is honest about his actions, Cena is just a fucking prick. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintthecrippler Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 4 hours ago, piranesi said: That's why I kicked your Bryan out from under your Bryan!!!!!!! Now I'm just having flashbacks to when I watched Bryan Danielson vs Brian Kendrick live at PWG and dueling "Let's Go Bryan! Let's Go Brian!" chants broke out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brysynner Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 So Corbin is gonna pin Cena clean next week isn't he? Or does AJ hit Cena when the ref and Corbin aren't looking and Corbin pins Cena after the End of Days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Greggulator said: Except AJ cheap shots dudes when their back is turned/lured Cena into a trap with The Club/brags about it constantly. People take justifying heels too far. At the end of the day they are bad guys. Yeah Jesse had some good points about Hogan. But they overlook him laughing at Savage maiming Seamboat and defending Herc attacking Haynes with a chain. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nice Guy Eddie Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Victator said: People take justifying heels too far. At the end of the day they are bad guys. They are, but they're honest about being bad guys. I rather someone be honest about being a scumbag rather than lying and manipulating under the guise of being a hero. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 6 hours ago, Greggulator said: Except AJ cheap shots dudes when their back is turned/lured Cena into a trap with The Club/brags about it constantly. He also beat Cena clean at SummerSlam and instead of Cena coming out and saying AJ was the better man or working his way back up the card he went ghost for months. Then when he did return he demanded a title match and claimed that he was injured and that's why he lost. If that's not what a heel does then what it is. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Lord Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said: Though... The Drifter + The Revival backing up Miz would be the heeliest collection of heels not seen in the WWE in forever. Personally, I love The Drifter. But man, If they have him go full Faux-Outlaw Country/Luke Bryan he would get some downright nuclear heat in the south. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 9 hours ago, Victator said: People take justifying heels too far. At the end of the day they are bad guys. Yeah Jesse had some good points about Hogan. But they overlook him laughing at Savage maiming Seamboat and defending Herc attacking Haynes with a chain. If you want to live in a world of kayfabe, then there are a lot of things in WWE that are contradictory to that line of thinking. If we're looking at these characters without kayfabe lenses, and with a sense of reality, then sometimes you'll get heels being justified in their actions and faces being downright awful at times, but still having more redeemable qualities than these heels. That's the entire reason the "shades of grey" stuff exists, not just in wrestling but in every form of entertainment. Straight up good guy versus bad guy doesn't work anymore, our culture isn't that naive anymore. There are no real "good guys" or "bad guys", it's just people with character defects and flaws but they happen to be on a platform where millions of people see them. I've met a lot of jocks and meatheads in my life that were pretty terrible, but to those that know and like them on a personal level, there are other things that wash away those bad qualities. Same thing with supposed good people or "heroes" - they do the right thing most of the time, but everyone has a dark side. I hate to get philosophical about wrestling characters and storylines, but the amount of people looking at 2017 WWE like it's 1988 WWF or something is kind of weird and crazy. It was a more simple time back then, our culture hadn't reached the pinnacle of being jaded and snarky. We could enjoy things much easier. Now, we get a 3 page essay on why Hulk Hogan wasn't the bad guy in his feud with Randy Savage or whatever. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Pretending Cena is the heel in the Styles feud because of one remark (that yes, was heelish) and ignoring the fact that Styles has made heelish remarks and used heelish tactics every single appearance since his turn last summer is silly. Cena *should* be able to come back from a break and challenge Styles for the World title. He's one of the most successful and celebrated champions in the history of the business. Nobody acted like Ziggler or Ambrose were heels when they got repeated chances at titles without really earning them. There isn't a good argument that a single wrestler on SmackDown has done more to earn or deserve a shot before Cena. This is just typical IWC "Cena sucks" stuff from people that want Styles to be on top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 3 hours ago, MORELOCK said: Pretending Cena is the heel in the Styles feud because of one remark (that yes, was heelish) and ignoring the fact that Styles has made heelish remarks and used heelish tactics every single appearance since his turn last summer is silly. Cena *should* be able to come back from a break and challenge Styles for the World title. He's one of the most successful and celebrated champions in the history of the business. Nobody acted like Ziggler or Ambrose were heels when they got repeated chances at titles without really earning them. There isn't a good argument that a single wrestler on SmackDown has done more to earn or deserve a shot before Cena. This is just typical IWC "Cena sucks" stuff from people that want Styles to be on top. Did Cena even get a fair shot at Rollins for the WWE belt after being screwed over. In general Cena has been a great sport over the years. Just for not going on an x rated tirade toward some of the cities. Or saying I told you so about Punk. 11 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: He also beat Cena clean at SummerSlam and instead of Cena coming out and saying AJ was the better man or working his way back up the card he went ghost for months. Then when he did return he demanded a title match and claimed that he was injured and that's why he lost. If that's not what a heel does then what it is. Are you serious? I could name ten right here. Step one for you folks is admitting you dislike John Cena. Otherwise there is no moving forward. 12 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said: They are, but they're honest about being bad guys. I rather someone be honest about being a scumbag rather than lying and manipulating under the guise of being a hero. Your first flaw is you assume anyone trying to do right is trying to be a hero. They can just be trying not to be rotten. It reminds me of something I heard on Family Guy (I know I'm sorry) Stewie: What's a hater? Brian: That's a term people use to avoid improving themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 Quote I hate to get philosophical about wrestling characters and storylines, but the amount of people looking at 2017 WWE like it's 1988 WWF or something is kind of weird and crazy. It was a more simple time back then, our culture hadn't reached the pinnacle of being jaded and snarky. We could enjoy things much easier. Now, we get a 3 page essay on why Hulk Hogan wasn't the bad guy in his feud with Randy Savage or whatever. Dude its just easily available now. Between the Network and various streaming sources its easy to find. Also you probably were not alive then, but this stuff was in all the magazines then. The writing in 2017 WWE is way worse with less thought put into the characters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattdangerously Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 On 1/4/2017 at 2:05 AM, Victator said: The thing that bugged me there was Bryan had counters to what Miz said but chose not to. From saying pointing out he has eclipsed every accomplishment MIz has. To a very basic "I don't need medical clearance to kick your teeth out and he should praise God he has the general manager job." I really think Bryan should have kicked Bryan in the face during the Dolph match. Bryan kept quiet because using an active wrestler to get themselves over when there's not going to be any payoff whatsoever is Stephanie's gimmick. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firebreaker Chip Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 I like that when Ambrose grabbed Permanently Worried Ref's hand and told him not to cost him the title by disqualifying Miz, he had this look of intense deliberation like he was literally the first ref to have ever considered that it might be better that way Tommy Young sitting bolt upright in front of the TV going "oh...shit." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolfan in NYC Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 And Nick Patrick was furious that the ref didn't disqualify Ambrose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyuubi Posted January 5, 2017 Share Posted January 5, 2017 There is a lot of strawmanning here. A lot of us root for Sami and Bayley because...they are actually morally sympathetic villains. They are actually good people as characters and overcome losses and struggles and still remain pure characters. WWE's version of face comes with caveats. We have to forget that Seth Rollins nearly tried to kill Edge to get his way. We have to forget that Roman used to continuously call people who booed him losers who hate their lives and prior to that, used to be in a group who specialized in attacking people. No one is saying AJ is the good guy. We are saying John Cena is definitely not the most moral in the situation. AJ did beat Cena clean. He did beat him twice(first time not clean, but whatever). He pinned him twice clean as well(the Triple Threat was a clean victory, Cena and Ambrose are just mad that they forgot weapons are legal in Triple Threats). AJ would have beaten Ambrose if it weren't for that bullshit finish with Ellsworth(he was already climbing up the ladder and Ellsworth came out. If anything, it was comeuppance for Ambrose for using Ellsworth to embarrass AJ). Is AJ an arrogant asshole and a bully? Yeah, but he is no Triple H. He has never complained about defending his title period like the Miz. AJ during his whole title reign has not had any intentional help and has been champion under a mostly babyface GM. He has no problems with Daniel compared to the Miz. While he does win under underhanded means a lot of the time, he is still AJ Styles and still has a better arsenal than most people in the WWE. It's hard to jeer a guy who does a springboard 450 to the outside on a table. It is hard to boo someone who never has a bad match, always is entertaining within the match, and shows up to keep giving more. They did a poll on WWE.com about who fans want to headline Wrestlemania, and AJ won overwhelmingly over Undertaker, John Cena, and Roman Reigns. And this is mainly kids voting...for a heel. What we are saying is John Cena is Face in the same way as Mr. Manhattan. He is oblivious to what damage he causes to others credibility and forgets how everything he says or does is spectacle and attention demanding. He forgets how much every show he has been in used to gravitate around him. For an entire year, we watched John Cena have a US Title Open where the main motivation was beating him and not so much as winning the Title as Seth Rollins showed. No one got over in this challenge except Del Rio, but it was clear that they wanted to make amends with him. So AJ again, comes back from injury and challenges AJ Styles, the new indy on the block. Just like he did for CM Punk. Just like he did for Daniel Bryan. He set himself as the gatekeeper of the WWE. He was the man to beat "clean." So he made a big deal out of facing AJ Styles and created the buzz. And it happened. Twice. And AJ beat him. Twice. So now, AJ has conquered him, you'd think he would have gotten some acknowledgment? Instead John Cena seemingly ignores that AJ beat him twice and proceeds to belittle him as if the guy has not proven that he is better. Part of the feud had the underlining that if AJ was not in TNA/ROH/NJPW/PWG/everywhere else but the WWE, John Cena would not have been as successful. That is a threat to his legacy. You know that thing that he threw Steel steps at Bray Wyatt for? It's Babe Ruth's record when there was a Negro League. It is the asterisk to his success in the WWE. Just like Daniel Bryan was. And John Cena has not acknowledged it at all. So after a third time of losing, Cena seems to just not care that this guy beat him thrice in singles competition. He is not acknowledging the subtle implication that him losing to Styles several times means. He instead says he was injured when that was never an issue before. AJ did not target his shoulder. He did not appear to struggle when he hoisted AJ up for his super move. He was already running a relatively easy schedule. So this "not being in my prime" bullshit sounds exactly like that: bullshit. "Only JBL faced me in my prime." What the fuck kind of backwards bullshit? In that case, the Rock never beat Hogan because Hogan was not in his prime. John Cena never beat the Rock because the Rock was not in his prime. Anyone who says that they felt better than the day they loss fair and square has a reason to say that their losses don't mean shit. He also delegitimized the matches that he hyped up by using this excuse. AJ did not actually beat John Cena in his prime. That was the angle he was going with. It's this willful ignorance that damn near ruined Kevin Owens. It's what nearly killed Rusev. And people are sick of it. I have heard it so many times when it comes to John Cena's character. When CM Punk pinned him, it was "you only beat me once." When he did it again, "you cheated and the last time there was interference(neglecting to mention that the interference was on his behalf)." When KO beat him, it was the "only beat me once," bullshit and shrugged the loss off. Now we have AJ Styles who beat him thrice, clean twice, and now it is a shoulder injury? The fuck? I am all for teaching kids that it is okay to lose, but fuck that when it comes to John Cena. No one hardly remembers when he loses except when other wrestlers bring it up because it is only a matter of time before John Cena takes it back and status quo is maintained. As someone who enjoys the "New Era" that came to fruition when WWE simply looked elsewhere, I have a vested interest in seeing John Cena lose if he is in the way of it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 You're absolutely right that Cena should acknowledge when he has been bested, but that in and of itself doesn't make Styles more moral in the situation. Especially when he's spent the last several months heeling his ass off every week, including reveling in the tainted victory he got over Cena with help from his buddies. It isn't Cena the character's fault that the show has been written around him for years. You are far from the only one to be sick of it. But in rooting for him to lose to Styles, you're definitely rooting for the more morally questionable character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Quote He did beat him twice(first time not clean, but whatever). That is a pretty big whatever. You are against Cena and threw out one element that helps him. That is just sloppy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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