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Phantom Lord

2017 LUCHA UNDERGROUND DISCUSSION

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So I've finally jumped into season one on Netflix. Mundo knocking Cueto's block off in episode seven. Now that's how you book a top babyface. 

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I get that LU is attempting to be more progressive in some ways than mainstream American promotions have been historically, but Pimpinela, thus far, is a swing and a miss in my eyes. And I chalk a lot of that up to the commentary. Striker can't help but describe Pimpi as "exotic" and then go on to use two contradicting pronouns in in the span of like ten seconds. Fucking hell. 

I fully expect much more entrenched lucha fans to take serious issue with my reading. 

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6 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

I get that LU is attempting to be more progressive in some ways than mainstream American promotions have been historically, but Pimpinela, thus far, is a swing and a miss in my eyes. And I chalk a lot of that up to the commentary. Striker can't help but describe Pimpi as "exotic" and then go on to use two contradicting pronouns in in the span of like ten seconds. Fucking hell. 

I fully expect much more entrenched lucha fans to take serious issue with my reading. 

I'm not a more entrenched Lucha fan by any means, nor do I take issue with your reading of it.  But from what I understand people like Pimpinela are called Exoticos in Lucha so that's likely how Striker meant it.  I'm sure others can better enlighten you on that if you like, but I didn't really have much issue with Striker's calling of Pimpinela's matches.

I will say however if you're still in season 1 Striker is still generally not that bad.  But going into seasons 2 and 3 he becomes insufferable, and Vampiro has his cringe-worthy moments as well.

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1 minute ago, NikoBaltimore said:

But from what I understand people like Pimpinela are called Exoticos in Lucha so that's likely how Striker meant it.

And now my ignorance is hanging out there for everyone to see. Shame! Shame! Shame! 

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3 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

And now my ignorance is hanging out there for everyone to see. Shame! Shame! Shame! 

Nah, it's all good.  I'm still pretty out of the loop when it comes to a lot of lucha myself, but it's not that hard to get into.

Fun fact, years ago Lucha Va Voom had a show in Baltimore and that was the first time seeing Cassandro live.  He is also an Exotico and pretty much stole the show.  That was my way of knowing about them in Lucha and we certainly had a great time.  I really wish LVV came back to the east coast, west coast folks are spoiled by the cool stuff they get.

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On last night's replays the ads finally said May 31st is when Season 3 returns instead of just Summer.

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Considering the amount of shows I have on DVR I kind of don't mind the break until May.  But it's sure going to be nice knowing it comes back to Mundo/Mack going the whole show.  That should be pretty wild.

I've caught an episode or two on Netflix and man does it look amazing.  I get so used to El Rey being in standard definition that when seeing LU in HD it looks so damn good.  But if anything I hope people who watch there check out the current season, they really need more viewers.

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Is May 31st still the return date?

Can anyone here who's been to those yet to be aired tapings mention who and what to look out for in a non-spoilerific, non-NDA breaking way?

 

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It's pretty common knowledge that Fox and Killshot wreck shit up at Ultima Lucha III. I don't know the specifics though. Probably another WMD match with both characters having military backgrounds. AR Fox is fucking suicidal with some of the shit he tries, so I can't even think of insanity he'll pull and how many years off his career he'll strike.

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May 31st is still the return date. The return episode will be the All Night Long full show with Johnny Mundo and the Mack.

There's an over arching in ring storyline which begins the following week and lasts for the third quarter of the series, ending as they start ramping up to Ultima Lucha.

Some of the stuff people have been complaining about here (and elsewhere) gets downplayed or the focus shifted away from for the last half of the season. I haven't seen most of it and I'm sure there are going to still be parts people don't like, but it reads like it's much better. 

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May 31st is the return date and I'm not saying shit about shit

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6 hours ago, thecubsfan said:

Some of the stuff people have been complaining about here (and elsewhere) gets downplayed or the focus shifted away from for the last half of the season.

Code for Sexy Star I hope.

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I'm just about caught up on Season 3, just in time for Wednesday's second half premiere. I certainly hope things pick up. 

For those in the know, is this it for LU? I haven't heard any talk of a fourth season. I recall there were some workers (Puma and Cobb) upset about Season 3's hiatus, which delayed them being released from their contract. 

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El Rey wants them back for a season 4 (and many more.) AAA wants back for a season 4. Most of the people on the show want back for a season 4.

The problem is it's MGM and other investors are who are also paying for a big chunk of the show (likely the biggest chunk) and we have really no idea if they want to keep going or not. And it comes off like El Rey and AAA and everyone else don't really know either. You can read into what they've said positively, with them preferring to wait to announce Season 4 at a more impactful moment then in the middle of the hiatus, or see things like AAA partnering with Impact on US house shows as them moving to other strategies because they don't have faith in this one. It's open to interpretation and swayed by how your feel about how things are going, but I think either very few people know or no one knows.

Cobb and Ricochet are in two different situations. Ricochet is a free agent if S3 had finished aired, which it would've done if it was on the original schedule. It hasn't, he's not and that isn't helpful for him. Cobb is under contract thru season 7 (we assume), so his frustration is the stagnation of the LU business. If it grows, great, he makes more money from it. If it dies, OK, he has a much better chance of going to WWE than he did before. If nothing happens, like nothing's happened this 2017, he's just losing time and doesn't have a lot left to lose.

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It comes back in a little over 90 mins. They are currently airing the last two episodes before it.

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I'm glad LU is back, but that was some bad timing for that to end up as the comeback show. Waiting months for it to come back and you just see the same two guys (with a couple cameos) the whole show... Then they promise to start next week's show with the same two guys. Ughh. Hopefully their sudden death doesn't take too long.

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I might be the only one to say this, but the commentary really made that match for me.  I know Striker gets a lot of deserved hate, but I think he and Vamp really made this work.

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

I'm glad LU is back, but that was some bad timing for that to end up as the comeback show. Waiting months for it to come back and you just see the same two guys (with a couple cameos) the whole show... Then they promise to start next week's show with the same two guys. Ughh. Hopefully their sudden death doesn't take too long.

The previous episode hyped it as happening next week (at the time), and it was supposed to air the following week.  It wasn't the plan to split it up, that was El Rey's doing so they could space it out some.  Unless they did some wacky editing it would have been tough to put anything else in there to kick it off.  That said, I think splitting seasons in half might have been the best thing for them.  If they do season 4 they should considering doing a mid-season break episode and resume with a bang.

That said, I liked All Night Long.  It told a pretty damn good story and had a nice build to the later stuff.  Mundo being a lying prick with his "injury" and using PJ was some great quality heeling.  I feel Ricky could have distracted Mack a little longer so when he ascended the latter he wouldn't have taken eternity to do that.  I get he's supposed to be exhausted but it seemed obvious he was killing time until it was time to dive.

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That match completely over delivered for me. I thought, particularly once they moved into the smoke and mirrors/garbage match portion, that it went from pretty good to great. Mack sending his ass down the stairs on the plank and the fakes injury were just so damn good! 

The crowd perfectly peaked for the finish, they were exactly where they wanted them.

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LU's choice was really going on break before this episode, or going on break after this episode (and all of this had been filmed months before they knew they were going to be put on a break.) I think they decided Matanza going to thru the ceiling and Dario kicking everyone out of the Temple was a more dramatic way to go on hiatus than having to wait for months to see the result of the title match. 

I find myself flipping back and forth on it. That episode they left on was anti-climax of an episode besides the Matanza/Dragon Azteca match, but this really wasn't better. It was an All Night Long match that turned out to be All Night Long Except For About Three Minutes So Dario Can Set Up The Rematch - and Dario only needs to set up the rematch because they ended the match early. (It was a very much "we're being dramatic, it doesn't have to make sense!" wrestling finish.) I'm willing to say whatever and be fine because we're getting the finish next week, but I think a lot of people would've been not thrilled about it if it was leading into a hiatus of uncertain length. I think a lot of people were probably not thrilled about it just now.

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I loved the plank slide so damn much, must have watch that quite a few times.  Wouldn't mind a gif of that.  But I'll admit to biting on the injury segment.  Everybody did such a great job and it was so believable that when Mundo popped up I thought "You sly sonofabitch!"  The more I think about it the more I realize how much I liked this match.

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The more I think about it, the more I hate the match because there were so many ways it could've been really good and they went with a super generic WWE-style match instead, and it fucking continues into next week. Blah. Mack doesn't have the stuff to fill 35 minutes and he doesn't seem like he's on Mundo's level even if Mundo's been a weasel champ. Plus Mundo picked the gimmick, presumably because of his superior conditioning, and they did absolutely nothing to capitalize on Mack as an underdog. I kept waiting for something interesting or productive to happen, but it never did. Also, the "all night long except for the last 2 minutes we need to explain the angle" thing was exceptionally stupid, as previously mentioned.

The injury angle was a huge missed opportunity. Having Mundo as a sitting duck for 20+ minutes could've made for a great iron man twist. He's there waiting to be pinned, Dario refuses to stop the clock, Mack has to fight through WWUG and look to sneak in 1-2 quick pins as they desperately try to keep him away from Mundo. You could do all the same stuff with PJ, Mandel (who I guess was filling in for the injured Jack Evans), Havoc, and Sexy Star, but there's a lot more urgency because everyone can buy Mundo being beatable in this state. You could end it any number of ways, even revealing Mundo was faking the whole time to hide behind his stable and get a last-second roll up.

The other less compelling, but still useful option would've been to have someone turn on Mack at the end. I was actually fully expecting this happen as he took forever to climb the ladder. Someone comes out, pushes him off, Mundo moves and gets the last-second pin, Mack gets a new program. Pretty standard booking for a guy you want to keep strong but not in the title picture. Could've been a Russo-esque Havoc or Sexy Star turn, or just somebody who needs an angle.

Personally, if I laid the match out, I'd have had Mundo win decisively because Mack is absolutely the level of guy Mundo should be getting clean wins against and I'm not super high on Mack as a serious main eventer. My plan would be have Mack dominate the early stages and jump out to 3-0 lead as Mundo underestimates him. Then play up the conditioning factor and have Mack slow down as Mundo slowly chips away to tie. Mack gets one last burst of energy with about 5 minutes left and there's some back and forth, but Mack can't hang and Mundo takes the lead 4-3 with a couple minutes left. Mack is completely spent and Mundo runs up the score because he's a dick and cruises to a 6-3 final.

 

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I thought that was a super fun match, very enjoyable watch. Loved the Sexy Star dive from the band stage. Mundo rules. The pin as the time expires is cliche but this was executed fairly well here.

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I like the idea of Sexy Star's plan being to hide amongst the band while the Worldwide Underground beat the shit out of her friend and hope an opportunity occurs that allows her to jump on Mundo and Black. 

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