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2017 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread


Elsalvajeloco

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2 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Now that the UFC have announced a Shogun/OSP rematch for the main event of the upcoming Japan card, it made me think about how former champion Shogun's current 3-fight win streak is the longest he's ever had with the company. So I looked up how many other former champs have an equal or lesser "longest UFC win streak". Turns out that number isn't weird at all.

1 Win - Carlos Newton, Carla Esparza (active, previous high of 4 with TUF)

2 Wins - Bas Rutten , Maurice Smith (completely forgot he went into the Coleman fight at 5-7), Murilo Bustamante, David Menne, Matt Serra (4 with TUF)
3 Wins - Vitor Belfort, Rampage Jackson, Forrest Griffin (5 with TUF), BJ Penn (!), Tyron Woodley, Sean Sherk, Eddie Alvarez, Holly Holm, Germaine de Randamie (active)

when you look at former PRIDE champions in the UFC, the numbers also line up:

3- Dan Henderson

2- Takanori Gomi, Big Nog

1- Wanderlei Silva

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On 7/2/2017 at 2:18 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

Lawler vs. Cerrone is back on for 214 because why not?

Last week Dana White was like there was no way it's done for UFC 214, said Cerrone had staph, a pulled groin, a bruise from his knee to his groin, and his other knee was blown out. Sounds like that's too soon to rebook.

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2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Last week Dana White was like there was no way it's done for UFC 214, said Cerrone had staph, a pulled groin, a bruise from his knee to his groin, and his other knee was blown out. Sounds like that's too soon to rebook.

Gotta tell Cerrone that.

I was going to bring this up when the fight was officially remade: Is it a bit weird that California is trying to go all out for weight cutting but letting an injury and ailment riddled Donald Cerrone fight is not that big of a deal?

 

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I know Cerrone is a nutcase and would take the fight anyway, but yeah it's weird California is letting this go forward after that litany of injuries was publicly revealed and caused true fight to get postponed once this month already.  

 

Nevada pulled Cain Velasquez from UFC 207 after that interview where he said he could barely stand up during training 

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2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

I know Cerrone is a nutcase and would take the fight anyway, but yeah it's weird California is letting this go forward after that litany of injuries was publicly revealed and caused true fight to get postponed once this month already.  

 

Nevada pulled Cain Velasquez from UFC 207 after that interview where he said he could barely stand up during training 

Nevada was actively conversing with Cain at the time of when they pulled him though. The interview was a big factor in it, but the commission had to actually look into it before making any hasty decision. I'm *assuming* CSAC consulted someone before they allowed Cerrone on the card or had him undergo some exams, but at the same time, a CSAC doctor also let Luke Rockhold fight Bisping with a MCL sprain.

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33 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Well Nevada let Rockhold take antibiotics for cellulitis and a staph infection for the Weidman fight.  And Weidman apparently had a fractured foot going into that fight as well.  

I'm just talking about fights where people know beforehand a fighter is hurt. There were rumors going around that Rockhold was dealing with a bad knee before the Bisping fight before Luke confirmed it a day before the fight. IIRC all the Weidman/Rockhold news came out afterwards.

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46 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Luke Rockhold said the commission knew about his antibiotics and staph. 

But we didn't know. I'm just talking about injuries where it's openly known as opposed to behind closed doors. It's easier for any commission to deal with something when it's not public knowledge.

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33 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

After Holloway vs. Aldo, Whitiker vs. Romero, and soon Jones vs. Cormier, I think Holloway vs. Edgar is the fight I want to see the most.  WME has done some fairly absurd things since taking over, but they've made the fights I want to see.

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21 hours ago, hammerva said:

Since we don't have a UFC 214 thread yet.   Just an incredible promo video for Jones vs Cormier 2 from last night.   

 

One of the best videos by UFC. UFC didn't pull their punches about Jon Jones stupid actions, nor should they. Man, I'm hoping Cormier can somehow pull it off.

10 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

I like this fight as a Frankie Edgar fan. Third time could be the charm for Frankie Featherweight ; ).

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2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Gegard Mousasi has signed with Bellator. He can walk in and get a title shot against Carvalho or Bader.

Terrible move by the UFC to let one of the top middleweights in the world who had been wrecking your division and was one of your top ranked contenders to go like that.

I don't care if anyone says he doesn't move the needle.  There's only one semi-active fighter who moves the needle in the UFC right now, and his name is Conor McGregor.  And we have no idea if he'll fight again in MMA after Mayweather.

You can't let all your legit contenders go to Bellator, or there will be no other contenders left.

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1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

You can't let all your legit contenders go to Bellator, or there will be no other contenders left.

By the time that happens, Bellator will be owned by someone with not as much money to burn as Viacom or out of business.

Their plan evidently is to let Viacom just become frustrated with the lack of forward movement of the company DESPITE signing multiple free agents. If they sign every free agent, how does Bellator get into the black? They have no end game (if that PPV was successful we would have heard by now based on early trending feedback) so what can signing Gegard Mousasi do for them that signing everyone else before him didn't do?

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7 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

So have you heard something pertaining to Bellator having a deadline to turn things around or they are going under?

1. It has been public knowledge for years that they don't make money. They fired Bjorn and hired Coker so they could start making money.

2. Common sense tells you that bringing in all these big money contracts (relative to MMA standards) when you don't turn a profit is going to catch up. You don't runs PPV just to do them. They're expensive. Running MSG is expensive. Trying to expand internationally (even though I believe they got discounts for joint promoted shows in Israel, Italy, and UK/Ireland) costs money. The really creative production elements for big shows cost money.

3. What media conglomerate do you know is just going to allow you to CONTINUE to lose money with no signs of profitability? They might like Coker, but media empires like Viacom don't make money by losing money. There is an end of to this road eventually. 

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Even though this probably belongs in the court case thread, it should be noted that Bellator (and One FC to be fair) wasn't exactly too keen on handing over their financial info (revenue and expense reports) for the antitrust lawsuit. They tried to put the "putting us at a negotiating and competitive disadvantage" spin on it, but the lawsuit itself from the fighters perspective is designed to help get rid of said disadvantage "ideally". If everything was fine, they would just hand those documents over with little reluctance. Everything was good early on in their promotional run when they got their hands on a UFC contract and modeled their contracts after the UFC.

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2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

If it was that big of a blow, they would have matched Bellator's offer.

you're right. all the fighters are replaceable and nobody's a draw.

if losing rory, bader, mousasi, and how many others doesn't matter, then who does? only the top guy in each division?

"oh, let's bend over backwards for GSP and let Conor do whatever the fuck he wants" that'll show the other 400 fighters we employ that they all are second rate at best.

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19 minutes ago, twiztor said:

you're right. all the fighters are replaceable and nobody's a draw.

400? UFC hasn't been around 400 fighters in half a decade at least. They just got down to 550 or a little over that three months ago just due to a crazy amount of cuts, retirements, and the like.

Quote

if losing rory, bader, mousasi, and how many others doesn't matter, then who does? only the top guy in each division?

"oh, let's bend over backwards for GSP and let Conor do whatever the fuck he wants" that'll show the other 400 fighters we employ that they all are second rate at best.

Answered your own question.

The UFC is dumping contracts. I think Mir may be a bigger loss than Mousasi. Bellator can squeeze some weird nostalgia thing with whatever is left of Frank Mir and Fedor Emelianenko physically. How big of a fight is Gegard Mousasi vs. Rafael Carvalho? The UFC is doing Bisping vs. Whittaker later this year or early next year. They still can make matchups with Rockhold, Weidman, Gastelum, Romero, Jacare, and Anderson if he is still around a little longer. Worst case scenario is they plug in a Derek Brunson, Tim Boetsch, Thiago Marreta somewhere in that picture. Machida will be able to return in October. If they want to do a GSP superfight at 185, they can do it. Borrachinha and Trevin Giles are two quality prospects at middleweight. They'll live.

 

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6 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

1. It has been public knowledge for years that they don't make money. They fired Bjorn and hired Coker so they could start making money.

2. Common sense tells you that bringing in all these big money contracts (relative to MMA standards) when you don't turn a profit is going to catch up. You don't runs PPV just to do them. They're expensive. Running MSG is expensive. Trying to expand internationally (even though I believe they got discounts for joint promoted shows in Israel, Italy, and UK/Ireland) costs money. The really creative production elements for big shows cost money.

3. What media conglomerate do you know is just going to allow you to CONTINUE to lose money with no signs of profitability? They might like Coker, but media empires like Viacom don't make money by losing money. There is an end of to this road eventually. 

I believe that there is a three letter answer to #3. We may not like the results, but it is there.

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26 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The UFC is dumping contracts. I think Mir may be a bigger loss than Mousasi. Bellator can squeeze some weird nostalgia thing with whatever is left of Frank Mir and Fedor Emelianenko physically. How big of a fight is Gegard Mousasi vs. Rafael Carvalho? The UFC is doing Bisping vs. Whittaker later this year or early next year. They still can make matchups with Rockhold, Weidman, Gastelum, Romero, Jacare, and Anderson if he is still around a little longer. Worst case scenario is they plug in a Derek Brunson, Tim Boetsch, Thiago Marreta somewhere in that picture. Machida will be able to return in October. If they want to do a GSP superfight at 185, they can do it. Borrachinha and Trevin Giles are two quality prospects at middleweight. They'll live.

fuck outta here with that. Mir hasn't had a win in two years. and who's clamoring for a Fedor/Mir fight?

Mousasi is 9-3 in the UFC. He fought four times last year and three in 2015. His only losses came to Lyoto Machida (very close decision), Uriah Hall (who he later beat), and Jacare Souza (has he ever not been in the top 5?) He's a former DREAM and StrikeForce champion. He's won five straight with four finishes. 

Is the UFC going to live? of course. that doesn't mean they need to be ok with losing multiple top-5 ranked guys.

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