Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board
Elsalvajeloco

2017 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

Recommended Posts

36 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I don't know if there is a worse stylistic matchup on the entire planet for Holly Holm.  Holm's is all technique with no art, she knows how to do everything but she's not dynamic in any way.  She's Kirk Cousins, if everything goes the way she planned it she can win, but a soon as she has to adjust to her opponent's pressure she is prone to mistakes.  Cyborg is essentially Lawrence Taylor, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Von Miller, and Julius Peppers all wrapped into one.  She's all pressure all the time and Holly Holm doesn't have an offensive line.

I think Cyborg's main problem (and it mostly has to do with her dominance so no fault of her own) is she decides to stalk people until she land a good combination because she knows her opponent with allow her to. If she wants to run into straight left hands all night and allow Holly to land body kicks, Holly will do just that because Holly can do the point game. Then, Holly can see if Cris will bite on a feint so she can go upstairs with a kick. In Cyborg's ten plus years of fighting, when has she ever had to worry about something like that? I mean Carano's Master Toddy rudimentary women's cardio kickboxing bullshit wasn't going to cause that concern.  I think the closest was when she lost in Lion Fight a few years back when she was just so overeager that she was running into strikes headlong, and Holly's game is way more practical (especially for MMA) than Jorina Baars.

giphy.gif

Holly can't do that?

So what I'm saying is if Cyborg wants to be safe, going for takedowns and trying to slam Holly through the mat each and every round is the right gameplan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I think Cyborg's main problem (and it mostly has to do with her dominance so no fault of her own) is she decides to stalk people until she land a good combination because she knows her opponent with allow her to. If she wants to run into straight left hands all night and allow Holly to land body kicks, Holly will do just that because Holly can do the point game. Then, Holly can see if Cris will bite on a feint so she can go upstairs with a kick. In Cyborg's ten plus years of fighting, when has she ever had to worry about something like that? I mean Carano's Master Toddy rudimentary women's cardio kickboxing bullshit wasn't going to cause that concern.  I think the closest was when she lost in Lion Fight a few years back when she was just so overeager that she was running into strikes headlong, and Holly's game is way more practical (especially for MMA) than Jorina Baars.

giphy.gif

Holly can't do that?

So what I'm saying if Cyborg wants to be safe, going for takedowns and trying to slam Holly through the mat each and every round is the right gameplan.

Holly has a path for victory, but I feel like they are all based on how Cyborg decides to fight not how Holly decides to fight.  If Cyborg allows Holm to set up and control the distance, Holm can peck her to death with jabs and leg kicks.  The problem is I don't think Holm hits hard enough to stop Cyborg from just walking through her jab and works inside kicking distance.  Unless Cyborg runs into her punches head first like Ronda Rousey did, how does Holly stop her from getting inside?  Holly is like one of those boxers who gains a reputation for being a great sparring partner, but they never actually show anything in actual fights.  She's extremely well trained, but is moderately talented.  She has a chance to win, but I have no reason to believe her pitty pat punches will stop the hurricane force power of Cyborg.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Unless Cyborg runs into her punches head first like Ronda Rousey did, how does Holly stop her from getting inside?  

Jabs which she does a frequently and moving away which is why most orthodox fighters get frustrated trying do that. People try to time that jab and then she throws a kick to the body. Now, you have to figure if she will throw a kick or try to go for that straight left. Once people start overthinking, that is when she times that headkick. That's her bread and butter. The whole reason why Shevchenko was able to manuever around that after round 1 is Holly showed her tell and went back to those same combos. As time moved went by, Holly was missing wider and wider and getting hit by the same combos that Valentina was throwing. Valentina could play the point fighting game for Holly because she isn't looking to knock Holly out. She is just trying to bait her. Cris works a boxing game that, again no fault of her own, is centered around her being able to do whatever. Throw a right hook, throw a left hook, an uppercut, and a cross with no hesitation and very little setup for the successive blows and strikes. Before she came to the US and was still with Chute Boxe, all of that was very sloppy. She went to Arena MMA, then Kings MMA, and some of those gyms in SoCal and cleaned all of that, however, it's nothing that can't be easily figure out. Jorina Baars exposed that something fierce and Jorina didn't even fight a great fight. Cris just ran into EVERYTHING. Jorina wasn't going to let Cris have this Mayweather Boxing Club smoker/brutal sparring session.  That's why Cris was so frustrated and tried to slam Jorina in a kickboxing match. When you don't fear anything coming back at you, you forget strategy and feel invincible. If Cris was the type to set traps like a Valentina, I think she would melt the hell out of Holly especially since she has more power and Holly was knocked out by someone who wasn't a big puncher. However, since she got away from Chute Boxe and now works with Jason Parillo, her game is to let you give her the opening so she can run through it. I don't think Holly is the world's best striker by any means, but you can't throw a simple cross like she is Faith Van Duin and break her nose. In a striking battle, you have to be as surgical as she is to beat her. 

IMO it comes down to will Cris make her own opportunities or will she just wait for Holly to give them to her. Cris wins the former not the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

IMO it comes down to will Cris make her own opportunities or will she just wait for Holly to give them to her. Cris wins the former not the latter.

Yeah, this is pretty much my argument in a nutshell.  I just don't think Holm has enough firepower to make Cyborg respect her point fighting nonsense enough to keep her away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Yeah, this is pretty much my argument in a nutshell.  I just don't think Holm has enough firepower to make Cyborg respect her point fighting nonsense enough to keep her away.

I don't think it's really nonsense because she has a clear endgame given the opponent. Against Bethe Correia? I mean based on the reaction the Pitbull brothers after Holly dinged their girl up bad, I don't think they really did any tape study and just let Bethe regress into that fighting style that the Pitbull brothers made famous in Bellator that she doesn't have the physical skill to implement. So yeah, that played right into Holly's hands once Bethe decided to actually fight. Against a Marion Reneau and Raquel Pennington (and a good portion of the Tate fight), she can use her movement and timing (and physical strength) to get folks off balance. That's a clear endgame she can actually implement and most girls in the UFC  don't even have prerequisite skills to get to that point unless there are clear physical mismatches (ex. Suarez and Sucuri Pereira last Saturday although Suarez can probably do that people who should be fighting at 115).  I think part of Holly's problem is she has been with Winkeljohn so long and those strategies of when to apply which patterns to which style matchup has been so successful that deviation has been so tough. That third round on in that fight with Valentina is proof of that. However, if Cris plays that game and she has shown herself willing to do that, Holly doesn't have to be a KO machine to do what she has been doing for a decade and a half. That's my point. Jorina Baar ain't exactly the most powerful striker and she had five or six opportunities to knock Cris out. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, UFC 219 finally has a main event.

FWIW, the UFC is working on finding an opponent for Jimmie Rivera. If they make the Moraes fight, that would be cool.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After the mini controversy of GdR pulling out of the fight and then her manager claiming she never took the fight to begin with, Cat Zingano will instead be the one to face Ketlen Vieira. It is set for UFC 222.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×