2017 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

[John E. Dynamite]

To those who have an understanding of these things; The UFC/Fox deal is expiring and the momentum doesn't seem to be in the UFC's favor. Disney, owners of ESPN, are purchasing Fox, along with 22 Fox-owned local sports networks. FS1 is not part of that deal. Does this matter, and how?

[Elsalvajeloco]

30 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

To those who have an understanding of these things; The UFC/Fox deal is expiring and the momentum doesn't seem to be in the UFC's favor. Disney, owners of ESPN, are purchasing Fox, along with 22 Fox-owned local sports networks. FS1 is not part of that deal. Does this matter, and how?

Go back a page or two.

[Craig H]

Disney's purchase of 21st Century Fox and the local sports networks shouldn't have much of an impact on UFC's negotiations. National Fox Sports and FS1 are still Fox Sports and FS1. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

After airing the best of UFC 206 last year, the UFC will indeed replay a version of UFC 218 on Fox on Christmas eve as reported by Dave Meltzer.

No bouts have been listed but I'm safely assuming everything on the main card except Cejudo vs. Pettis. I also expect a heavy hard sale for UFC 219 during that broadcast.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I knew this already and have brought it up many times, but after watching the highlight reel in a tweet, the overall improvement in technique that Cris Cyborg shows from EliteXC to her stint in the UFC is scary. The most noticeable thing is at the end against Evinger (granted Tonya is standing straight up so she's basically a heavy bag) where she is just taking her apart with everything under the sun. Instead of being rapid fire and all over the place, the placement of everything is better and crisp. That's why I'm so intrigued to see how well that translates against Holly Holm, who has developed a certain style she has been doing for several years.

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Craig H]

Jesus

[Elsalvajeloco]

Zuffa Boxing in association with Mayweather Promotions is probably about to be a thing

[Elsalvajeloco]

...we begin

[supremebve]

4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

...we begin

Floyd does not want those DJ problems.  I know I said this about Mayweather vs. McGregor all the way up until they stepped into the ring and actually started fighting, but . . . this is never going to happen.

[Elsalvajeloco]

If DJ does not campaign for this fight like it's going to be the last one of his life, then I don't know why you would ever try to market him.

[supremebve]

Would anyone pick Floyd Mayweather over any UFC fighter not named CM Punk?

[Elsalvajeloco]

One of the dudes that fought in the one of the opening bouts of the Shanghai card was very raw. At best, he would be a slight favorite over Floyd.

Edit: Wuliji Buren is his name. He's the guy who powerbombed some random dude. 

 

[Jiji]

My least favourite thing to come out of this is every ham and egger on the roster is going to be calling him out. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

My least favourite thing to come out of this is every ham and egger on the roster is going to be calling him out. 

Amir Khan is magically going to become an MMA fighter and proceed to call Floyd out in a different sport only to fail to secure a fight with him again.

[Guest Edwin]

Floyd can start training BJJ now and even by 2020 he still wouldn’t be good enough to beat anyone in the UFC, unless they can find someone willing to just stand with him and not throw any leg kicks.

With that said, I could see Mayweather Promotions co-promoting some fights with some of his fighters when Zuffa Boxing comes through, but I don’t think he will take the risk of fighting in the UFC unless they can offer him a solid $100M which I don’t see them doing, but wouldn’t be surprised if they did.

[supremebve]

1 minute ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

One of the dudes that fought in the one of the opening bouts of the Shanghai card was very raw. At best, he would be a slight favorite over Floyd.

You, who watches as much MMA as anyone here, named "one of the dudes."  I watched that card, and unless Floyd is a much better grappler than I know, he probably loses to all of them.  Not to make a Floyd can't read joke, but grappling is like reading.  I've done some grappling, but I'm essentially in elementary school when it comes to grappling.  I know the alphabet, I can read books at my grade level, and I can put some simple sentences together.  I'm at that point where I can read well enough that I can get through life without much difficulty, but every once and a while I have to ask somebody  what a word means.  As far as I know, Floyd doesn't know the alphabet. Floyd Mayweather would beat my ass in a boxing match, but I'm pretty sure I could tap him in a grappling match.  I just have a foundation of knowledge that goes back years.  For the rest of my life I'll probably know how to pass guard into side control, work into a kesa-gatame, and try to transition into a head and arm choke.  Whether or not I can complete the choke depends on my opponent, but if you drop me into a jiu-jitsu or judo gym, I can work at that series of moves and compete.  CM Punk, who had been doing jiu-jitsu for years got into the cage with a good brown belt and looked like he had never grappled before.  He's a better grappler than Floyd Mayweather.  The grappling skill floor for a UFC fighter is so much higher than we can expect a 40-year-old Floyd Mayweather to ever reach.  

[Guest Edwin]

11 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I've done some grappling, but I'm essentially in elementary school when it comes to grappling.  I know the alphabet, I can read books at my grade level, and I can put some simple sentences together.  I'm at that point where I can read well enough that I can get through life without much difficulty, but every once and a while I have to ask somebody  what a word means.  As far as I know, Floyd doesn't know the alphabet. Floyd Mayweather would beat my ass in a boxing match, but I'm pretty sure I could tap him in a grappling match.  I just have a foundation of knowledge that goes back years.  For the rest of my life I'll probably know how to pass guard into side control, work into a kesa-gatame, and try to transition into a head and arm choke.  Whether or not I can complete the choke depends on my opponent, but if you drop me into a jiu-jitsu or judo gym, I can work at that series of moves and compete.

What and where did you train? Are you still training?

I used to do BJJ at a Gracie Barra gym in central Florida until I got concussed. I got to tap out a few blue belts when practicing drills and rolling though. Mostly by gassing them out and then taking advantage.

I hate the bs people bring up about strength and size not mattering in BJJ when realistically it does. I rolled with a fat (300+ lb.) Cuban dude a couple of times I couldn’t sweep him no matter what I tried.

I’ve considered going back to training as one of my friends used to work at ATT is a BJJ black belt, so I’m sure he can give me some pointers on technique, but I don’t have the time to get back in the gym yet.

[Elsalvajeloco]

28 minutes ago, supremebve said:

You, who watches as much MMA as anyone here, named "one of the dudes." 

I had to go back to the event thread because I certainly didn't know his name. I just know he was one of the fighters who lost.

But as far as Punk goes, was he really training with Rener? Because one guy lives in Los Angeles and the other lives in Chicago and only made the trek to Milwaukee out of desperation to get better.  There are some guys and gals who have athletic traits which allow them to be successful at stuff like pro wrestling and there are actual athletes who can do whatever because they have god given ability. Punk was the former in addition to having years of punishment that he accrued on his body.  

Now does this mean Floyd can win the Mundials or the World No-Gis? Fuck no, but he can probably pick up grappling better than your average Joe Schmo. I mean he actually has the resources unlike damn near 90 percent of the UFC roster to hire a full time staff of trainers. The guy I brought up I'm pretty sure is either training himself or training with people who have basic working knowledge of MMA, which is good to beat club fighters in China and random parts of Eurasia. I would liken this to guys like Ryan Ford and others who are having a bit of success as lower to mid level boxers. Ryan Ford is not a good MMA fighter. He is alright at best if you have don't try to grapple with him. This guy just went TWELVE WHOLE ROUNDS with Fedor Chudinov, a former WBA titlist. How does someone like Ryan Ford with 1/8 the talent of a Floyd Mayweather (and just about as good on the ground as Floyd is now with zero training) transition to boxing succesfully having a halfway decent MMA career but Floyd can't transition into MMA and have like a .500 record? He can beat Punk even with the size disparity, but I can dig up other folks because half of the guys change tires during the day for a living and train for like 90 minutes at night.

Kimbo was sorta decent under Bas Rutten and Randy Khatami for a dude with zero martial arts background. He went to ATT and then he could beat up Houston Alexander. You know why? Because Houston Alexander is a jacked up radio DJ...literally. AND THIS GUY WAS A TOP FIFTEEN LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT AT ONE POINT!

I won't even bring up FIGHTING ACCOUNTANT Bethe Correia and how she finagled her way into a UFC PPV main event that drew a record number of buys.

Sometimes, you gotta throw logic out the window.

[Guest Edwin]

Oh well... I haven't watched much Russian MMA recently, but anyone with decent stand up and TDD is going to stop him ala juiced up post UFC Cro Cop last year.

[Elsalvajeloco]

ACB is like 5 or 6 free agents from having a roster comparable to what Bellator has, which is weird since Bellator had a bigger head start.

[Elsalvajeloco]

UFC Heavyweight champion Stipe Miocic is Hercules Hernandez in Lifetime's The Panic in Needle (Titan) Tower: The George Zahorian Story.

[supremebve]

56 minutes ago, Edwin said:

What and where did you train? Are you still training?

I've trained judo and jiu-jitsu a couple of places around Northern Virginia.  I'm not really active in it now, but I did do some rolling earlier this year.  

 

58 minutes ago, Edwin said:

I hate the bs people bring up about strength and size not mattering in BJJ when realistically it does. I rolled with a fat (300+ lb.) Cuban dude a couple of times I couldn’t sweep him no matter what I tried.

I'm 5'7" and around 200 lbs. and built like a high school fullback.  My skills are not great, but I'm strong as an ox and am impossible to move.  I remember when I first started I got out of knee on belly by grabbing the 140 lb. instructor(he was a purple belt teaching at George Mason) and throwing him off of me.  He looked at me and said, "you aren't supposed to be able to do that."  It sucks because grappling tournaments can have stupid weight divisions.  I was in pretty good shape this spring and was thinking about entering a tournament.  I was right around 200 lbs. and was thinking I'd try to lose enough weight to fight in a weight class down so I didn't have to try to grapple any 300 pounders.  So, I asked around and they said that the largest weight class is pretty much anything over 185 lbs.  Me and this other stocky guy were talking about how much it sucks for guys our size, because we have to somehow deal with guys who are way longer and guys who are way heavier.  For the record, I hate grappling with tall ass people more than heavy ass people.  Trying to break the guard of someone who is 6'5" is harder for me than trying to move a super heavy guy.  

2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Now does this mean Floyd can win the Mundials or the World No-Gis? Fuck no, but he can probably pick up grappling better than your average Joe Schmo. I mean he actually has the resources unlike damn near 90 percent of the UFC roster to hire a full time staff of trainers. The guy I brought up I'm pretty sure is either training himself or training with people who have basic working knowledge of MMA, which is good to beat club fighters in China and random parts of Eurasia. I would liken this to guys like Ryan Ford and others who are having a bit of success as lower to mid level boxers. Ryan Ford is not a good MMA fighter. He is alright at best if you have don't try to grapple with him. This guy just went TWELVE WHOLE ROUNDS with Fedor Chudinov, a former WBA titlist. How does someone like Ryan Ford with 1/8 the talent of a Floyd Mayweather (and just about as good on the ground as Floyd is now with zero training) transition to boxing succesfully having a halfway decent MMA career but Floyd can't transition into MMA and have like a .500 record? He can beat Punk even with the size disparity, but I can dig up other folks because half of the guys change tires during the day for a living and train for like 90 minutes at night.

If Floyd was 30 and not 40, I'd agree with you.  He's 40 and playing catch up with younger, hungrier fighters who are already much more advanced grapplers than him.  He is an elite athlete and has all of the financial advantages a fighter can have, but he's fighting against age.  He isn't going to be fighting MMA five years from now, his window is right now.  Everyone in the UFC (who will actually fight in the U.S. during their career, those Chinese dudes were only there because they were in China) can take him down and submit him.  He doesn't have the time it would take to make the strides he would need.  He isn't going to be fighting Houston Alexander.  The best case scenario is to fight McGregor and McGregor returns the favor to carry him until the end of the 3rd or the beginning of the 4th before he either destroys his legs with kicks or takes him down and pounds him out.