2017 Non-Event General MMA Talk Thread

[Elsalvajeloco]

Per Lance Pugmire (from Dana), DC vs. Jones II is the indeed the 214 main event with Manuwa on the card as a backup.

With GdR pretty much confirmed to not be fighting Cyborg, I am still thinking a second title fight would make sense with Bisping being the logical choice. This goes especially if they can get Woodley an opponent for 213.

[DreamBroken]

12 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Damn that's tough. Calderwood is a longtime top fav of mine while I've been loving Calvillo being on fire this year.

[Elsalvajeloco]

It seems like they want to get Calvillo a win over an established name, but I dunno how effective that win will be should it happen as Calderwood said flat out she was moving up. 

I would continue to put her on PPV undercards for the time being. However, it does make sense to move her around for the time being because PPV card space will be limited once they load up on these summer cards.

[AxB]

This Bamma show that was on Dave* last night is OK. But the commentary team is terrible. They aren't commentators, they're cheerleaders. And the whole 'Call it down the middle' idea has clearly never been explained to them. But I love it when people win company titles (vacant titles, naturally) on indie MMA shows and then shout out the UFC in their victory interview. Terry Brazier vs Walter Gahadza was a fun brawl at least. Not great sheduling, having a TV show that runs from 9-11 PM and sending the main event (a three rounder) into the cage at five to ten. But they probably wanted to make sure everything live was post-Watershed**.

* There is a TV channel in England called Dave. Usually it just shows reruns of Top Gear.

** You aren't supposed to swear on British telly before 9PM. And MMA fighters (and especially cornermen) have filthy mouths sometimes.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Women's 145 update: Dana said that the bizarre GdR situation should resolved soon. Also, he mentioned Cat Zingano as possibly one of the opponent choices for Cyborg in her next fight. I've been beating the drum for that fight for about 2 years now.

[Jiji]

That would be so violent.

[twiztor]

apropos of nothing, i was always hoping we got a Rousey vs Marloes Coenen match. 

GdR vs Cyborg is really the only w145 match to make. everything else is just holding out

[Elsalvajeloco]

 

[Hail Sabin]

16 hours ago, twiztor said:

apropos of nothing, i was always hoping we got a Rousey vs Marloes Coenen match. 

GdR vs Cyborg is really the only w145 match to make. everything else is just holding out

Megan Anderson is like Clubber Lang in Rocky 3 trying to call out GDR.

[TheVileOne]

MMA does need more weight cutting regulation.  Fighters can't really be trusted to handle their weight cutting right anymore.  Time to start fighting closer to your more natural weight.  Killing yourself to cut 25 pounds on fight week isn't going to give you an advantage come fight time.

[supremebve]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

 

 

So, do those weightclasses only exist in California?  How is that supposed to work?  With that said, I think the time to redo the weightclasses is way overdue.  It should have been every 10 lbs. for at least a few years now.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

12 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

MMA does need more weight cutting regulation.  Fighters can't really be trusted to handle their weight cutting right anymore.  Time to start fighting closer to your more natural weight.  Killing yourself to cut 25 pounds on fight week isn't going to give you an advantage come fight time.

The problem is at some point you have to trust the fighters to handle this correctly or else you wouldn't need new policies in place. You would just let them continue to bungle the old ones. 

I think the biggest problem is transparency between the fighters and the promotions. The promotion can't be transparent with the commission if the fighters aren't transparent with them. The UFC tried to the "you can weigh no more than ______ on this day" , but they couldn't really enforce it because you would probably lose several fights on every card. On the other hand, it is ridiculous that have fighters train for several weeks and then decided on fight week or the day of weigh-ins they can't make weight. Even worse, they become seriously ill and the fight is off because they need an IV and/or go to the hospital. No matter how good the new policies sound on paper, the fighters have to be truthful to the promotion and also themselves as to what their bodies can handle. 

20 minutes ago, supremebve said:

So, do those weightclasses only exist in California?  How is that supposed to work?  With that said, I think the time to redo the weightclasses is way overdue.  It should have been every 10 lbs. for at least a few years now.  

I'm guessing these weight classes can be used by any promotions that wants to use them. I am guessing they will be probably used in Cali's amateur circuit if they aren't being used already. However, I don't see the UFC making changes to their weight classes because the shift in the roster between the weight classes would be crazy. I think they might experiment with more catchweight bouts (using the classes that CA came up with), but I don't see them doing it full time unless they have to due to people missing weight.

[TheVileOne]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

The problem is at some point you have to trust the fighters to handle this correctly or else you wouldn't need new policies in place. You would just let them continue to bungle the old ones. 

I think the biggest problem is transparency between the fighters and the promotions. The promotion can't be transparent with the commission if the fighters aren't transparent with them. The UFC tried to the "you can weigh no more than ______ on this day" , but they couldn't really enforce it because you would probably lose several fights on every card. On the other hand, it is ridiculous that have fighters train for several weeks and then decided on fight week or the day of weigh-ins they can't make weight. Even worse, they become seriously ill and the fight is off because they need an IV and/or go to the hospital. No matter how good the new policies sound on paper, the fighters have to be truthful to the promotion and also themselves as to what their bodies can handle. 

I'm guessing these weight classes can be used by any promotions that wants to use them. I am guessing they will be probably used in Cali's amateur circuit if they aren't being used already. However, I don't see the UFC making changes to their weight classes because the shift in the roster between the weight classes would be crazy. I think they might experiment with more catchweight bouts (using the classes that CA came up with), but I don't see them doing it full time unless they have to due to people missing weight.

You can't.  Just like you can't take them at their word that they are clean.  Look at what just happened with Daniel Cormier, a guy who has competed in the Olympics.  He was given a free pass to make weight for his last fight even though he was blatantly cheating the scale.  

Kelvin Gastelum constantly misses weight.  Johny Hendricks constantly had weight cutting issues after he had already made it to the main event title level.  John Lineker is a top level fighter but he missed weight fighting at flyweight on four separate occasions. Then he missed weight after moving up to bantamweight.  He's missed weight five times in the UFC.  That shouldn't happen.

Charles Oliveira has missed weight several times.

Even Khabib Nurmagomedov, his weight cutting issues cost the UFC and the fans a major lightweight title fight on fight week.  This was the second time he had an indiscretion.  We are past the point of trusting the fighters to do this job properly.  Not to mention, they are routinely putting their health and safety at risk more than they should.  There is medical evidence proving that these weight cuts before they get into a cage to fight is not good for them and it damages their kidneys and makes them more susceptible to concussions, hand breaks and knockouts.

[supremebve]

58 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I'm guessing these weight classes can be used by any promotions that wants to use them. I am guessing they will be probably used in Cali's amateur circuit if they aren't being used already. However, I don't see the UFC making changes to their weight classes because the shift in the roster between the weight classes would be crazy. I think they might experiment with more catchweight bouts (using the classes that CA came up with), but I don't see them doing it full time unless they have to due to people missing weight.

 

I don't understand why it wouldn't be in the UFC's best interest to increase the number of divisions.  The more divisions, the more champions, the more people you can market, the more people who can put in the main event  The UFC have enough fighters and shows to support a couple extra divisions.  If they add a165 and 195 pound division, that is two extra champions, at least another two or three fighters you can market as championship contenders, and the ability to have more events with title fights.  If UFC 215 was Dillashaw vs. Garbrandt with a 4 person title elimination tourney to see who will be the first two challengers for the 165 pound title, wouldn't that do better numbers than just the 135 pound title fight.   Masvidal vs. Nate Diaz and Dos Anjos vs. Khabib, are fights you could make right now in that division.  185 is so fucked up and convoluted, I'm sure you could get 4 guys to move up 10 pounds with very little argument.  They could do it, and I don't really see a reason not to do it.

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

You can't.

You have to because across any platform, commission, regulatory body, the fighters are the only consistent variable. It's not really an option. You're going to have promotions who don't give a damn about fighter health. Same with commissions or countries/places where there is no commission. In addition, those who claim to promote fighter health but over compensate and in return driving MMA out (ex. Ken Hayashi in Ontario, parts of Australia, etc.). The only consistent thing is fighters having to cut weight because there are weight classes. Moreover, you're relying on fighters not to mess up any new regulations you have in place. Everytime you make major changes as a commission, you run the risk of not getting major cards because of regulatory matters. California wants to be the standard bearer, but at the same time, no commission is trying to fuck up getting UFC money. Those fines won't make up for that.

4 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Just like you can't take them at their word that they are clean.  

That's a completely different issue because the standards of testing drastically differ everywhere. Just because I pass a test the commission gave me doesn't mean I'm clean. However, I'm clean until someone accuses me of doing something or rumors float around. There are people put on trial in the court of public opinion before they ever fail a test. However, you have to make weight for any bout contested within specific, defined weight classes. In addition, you might be doing it yourself or need the assistance of several people in your camp. There is no exact science other than keeping your weight at a manageable level. However, the word "manageable" seems to have several definitions for every fighter, camp, or nutritionist/dietitian. Thus, the need for transparency as I was talking about because the endgame is always making money. The commission doesn't want to lose money. The org doesn't want to lose money. The fighters don't want to lose money. Therefore, educating fighters on what they could do the improve the weight cutting process to supplement any new policies put in place is desperately needed. Otherwise, you just have another failed attempt to curb drastic weight cutting.

4 hours ago, supremebve said:

I don't understand why it wouldn't be in the UFC's best interest to increase the number of divisions..

They want legitimate depth in every division. Even with 600+ fighters on the roster, they still have some very top heavy divisions. If they had more actual money draws spread over several weight classes, they would've probably serious experimented with these weight classes before the CSAC made the call.

[J.T.]

On 5/12/2017 at 11:07 PM, Elsalvajeloco said:

This goes especially if they can get Woodley an opponent for 213.

Maia probably earned that honor at UFC 211.

I fear for the health of the winner and loser of Cyborg vs. Zingano.

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, J.T. said:

Maia probably earned that honor at UFC 211.

Well, it is his shot to lose. No other fighter makes sense. It just comes down to if the UFC can make that fight. Neither Woodley or Bisping wants to lose what they feel is their angle to get a GSP fight. Plus, Woodley is still hunting to fight Nick Diaz. In this climate, it might hard to convey Maia and Romero respectively are your only options.

[supremebve]

9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

They want legitimate depth in every division. Even with 600+ fighters on the roster, they still have some very top heavy divisions. If they had more actual money draws spread over several weight classes, they would've probably serious experimented with these weight classes before the CSAC made the call.

There has never really been a new division that started with legitimate depth.  There is enough talent between 155 and 170(which would move to 175) to be as deep as any division in the company.  195 would be a little thinner, but not nearly as thin as women's 145.  This is a company that just makes up titles all the time, even when there is a legitimate champion at the weight.  I don't really see how this isn't a better alternative.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 hours ago, supremebve said:

There has never really been a new division that started with legitimate depth.  

Except they don't want to deal with having more flyweight divisions than welterweight divisions. When you know it takes at least 3 or 4 years to get something popping, you are not going to invest in something unless there is a real endgame. If there is another Conor McGregor or Ronda Rousey in those new divisions in a Cage Warriors type promotion, then they will invest in doing that. For 15 years, Zuffa profited off of letting other promotions do their dirty work in terms of developing fighters. Therefore, the better alternative is what they've been doing and that's why they became a 4 billion dollar company. I think adding a women's flyweight division and maybe women's atomweight is kinda the ceiling. You would have enough titles and enough weight classes for the women for all your events.

The thing about interim titles is you can get rid of them at any time and/or unify them. For real belts, you can't do that even if the person carrying the belt is doing 135k buyrates and sub 1 million avg viewer cards. If Zuffa didn't want to do this, then WME-IMG definitely doesn't want to do it especially anytime in the near future. They want big fights ASAP and not to be committed to long term investments that might not even pay off. 

[Craig H]

I'm more interested in weigh-ins the day of the fight. No fighter or promotion will seriously consider the recommendation for a fighter to move up in weight, but the information gathered might prove useful. I also wonder if UFC uses that date in their broadcasts to say something like, "at the weigh-in today, Daniel Cormier was already back up to 220 lbs." Of course, that would only count for shows in CA, but I would hope that UFC and other promotions use that info.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

I'm more interested in weigh-ins the day of the fight. No fighter or promotion will seriously consider the recommendation for a fighter to move up in weight, but the information gathered might prove useful. I also wonder if UFC uses that date in their broadcasts to say something like, "at the weigh-in today, Daniel Cormier was already back up to 220 lbs." Of course, that would only count for shows in CA, but I would hope that UFC and other promotions use that info.

It isn't as intriguing as it once was because now most guys don't give their fight night weight anymore, but HBO doing that for the boxing bouts was always great because someone like Lampley was able to provide context and another narrative. If they want to help the commentary, that would be a great tool because there is only so much hyperbole and so many superlatives Joe Rogan can use to say someone is big for their weight class. Why not give them evidence to prove their case? Brian Stann already goes above and beyond so why not allow him to throw a little bit extra in there?

[Elsalvajeloco]

MW title update: Bisping might be injured so Romero vs. Whittaker for the interim belt might happen this summer. 

Dana says they want GSP back down at 170 to fight whoever is champ, but I dunno if Bisping is gonna give up easily on that fight. Moreover, they would need to convince not to forego the Maia fight to fight GSP.

Men's BW title fight update: Garbrandt vs. Dillashaw is still on for the time being. However, the UFC and Dillashaw is willing to do Mighty Mouse vs. Dillashaw at 125 for the title on a PPV card in Seattle if Cody can't go.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Sergio Pettis vs. Brandon Moreno is going to headline the 8/5 card in Mexico City.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Apparently, Angela Magana got punched out by Cyborg at the UFC fighters retreat. What is not apparent is why Magana is still on the UFC roster?

[Elsalvajeloco]

Update from Marc Raimondi's article:

Quote

Sources said Cyborg was upset in particular about a Magana tweet making fun of Cyborg’s looks while Cyborg was visiting cancer patients at a hospital in Brazil. Cyborg’s father is battling cancer and she went to the hospital dressed as a superhero to visit the ill kids.

Going by the tweet referenced in the article, she is lucky all that happened was she got punched. That will get you stomped and kicked to sleep in the streets.

Again, why is Angela Magana still on the roster? Did they forget she was on the roster?