JANUARY 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Wyld Samurai]

I woukd think the major reason was because it became too dialogue heavy for the foreign markets?

[The Z]

Well, what part of what I said aren't you agreeing with, Moe?

I'm not saying everything I said is fact, I could be wrong about everything, I don't have any ratings or so from back in the day.

Except for my closest friends and family nobody knows I'm a wrestling fan, but I remember conversations where wrestling came up with different groups of people, who aren't big wrestling fans and the things they talked about were always stuff from the early 90s, Undertaker, Bret Hart, the Bushwhackers etc.

I had a few friends from back when I was young who could be considered casual wrestling fans and they all preferred WCW over WWF. They were shocked, when I told them WWF bought WCW. They thought, if anything it would be the other way around. Watching WWF was also a pain in the ass in the late 90s as far as I remember. It always aired late at night on a weekday. At least WCW aired at the weekends.

[The Z]

32 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I woukd think the major reason was because it became too dialogue heavy for the foreign markets?

I'm not sure about that. I would guess it was a multitude of things, but marketing/promotion also played a huge role. But I can only talk about my country. I have no idea about other European countries.

WWF aired on a rather large channel for some time, but they clearly didn't care much for it. It constantly changed air times, always later and later. There were even a few time periods, where WWF wasn't on TV at all, whereas the channel that aired WCW, aired reruns of Nitro and Thunder long after WCW's closure. WCW even had a few PPVs over here that only aired in Germany.

[caley]

Been reading Jericho's 'Best in the World' book and what's really bizarre to me is how much Vince LOVES Jericho.  Like, he battles with him constantly (Fining him, disagreeing with booking ideas, trying to stop him from hosting a game show, threatening to fire him etc. etc.) but there's two incidents in particular that I thought were really crazy

-Batista bladed in a Jericho-Batista match after Vince had instituted his 'No Blood' policy.  After agents told Jericho how mad Vince was, Jericho texted Vince and told him what had happened and his side (I didn't know for certain he was going to blade but as the veteran I take full responsibility), and Vince texted him back that he was so mad he wouldn't talk to him for a week.  The following week, Vince said he was fining both Jericho and Batista, as well as the ref and agent who had no idea it was happening (Batista was fined $100,000 and Jericho and the refs something like $5000 each; Batista also said he was paying off the entire fine after Vince left and there was to be no discussion about it).  Jericho went up to Vince later and McMahon said "Let's never talk about this again, now give me a hugski."

-When Jericho kicked the flag in Brazil and almost got arrested and ended up being suspended and fined by WWE, he was texting back and forth with Vince who was really mad because they were trying to break WWE into Brazil and he figured this would be the last tour they did there.  After squaring everything up, Vince texted Jericho "I love you, you big idiot. ACDC still best band." (ACDC is Vince's favourite band and he and Jericho have some sort of running argument/discussion about it).

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

2 hours ago, The Z said:

Well, what part of what I said aren't you agreeing with, Moe?

I'm not saying everything I said is fact, I could be wrong about everything, I don't have any ratings or so from back in the day.

Except for my closest friends and family nobody knows I'm a wrestling fan, but I remember conversations where wrestling came up with different groups of people, who aren't big wrestling fans and the things they talked about were always stuff from the early 90s, Undertaker, Bret Hart, the Bushwhackers etc.

I had a few friends from back when I was young who could be considered casual wrestling fans and they all preferred WCW over WWF. They were shocked, when I told them WWF bought WCW. They thought, if anything it would be the other way around. Watching WWF was also a pain in the ass in the late 90s as far as I remember. It always aired late at night on a weekday. At least WCW aired at the weekends.

I was just trolling you.

Everything was Spot on.

[Michael Sweetser]

As an aside, the thought of Vince texting is still weird to me.  Like when Jericho said Undertaker texted "LOL" to him.

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

 

[SorceressKnight]

4 hours ago, AxB said:

Bret is a Wrestling fan's Wrestler. He was put on top during a downswing to have good matches, because although Vince loves the idea of having people who don't like Wrestling watch his shows (Wrestling fans will always watch Wrestling; Non-Wrestling fans won't, unless you get a Superstar), if he knows he can't draw mainstream eyes, he puts a worker on top. Satisfy the audience you do have.

This also plays a role in the "levels" of workers, though.

You're not going to get a TRUE STAR in the business unless they can manage to be a crossover celebrity. You'll get "main eventers" since anyone you put in the main event will be, you'll get "wrestling bubble" stars- which in itself is a problem- it's a running joke here, but people here who are diehard fans will hear "Pitbull" and instantly think "Anthony Durante or Gary Wolfe...oh, are you an older Smackdown fan? Jamie Noble or Kid Kash?" (which means that ANY wrestler will seem like a bigger star 'to us' than they are to the rest of the world).

True CROSSOVER stars, though? They're what you need to make true boom periods and get non-wrestling fans into wrestling...but they're effectively random to WWE and are entirely dependent on the whims of legitimate entertainment...where the first rule of entertainment is "Nobody Knows Anything." To get a true superstar really boils down to luck and is out of anyone in wrestling's hands. John Cena breaking out now is a great example- he was THE MAN in WWE for 10 years and no one cared, he started to wind down a bit and take a lower profile, and now he's starting to become a real star. (This doesn't even go into situations like CM Punk or Daniel Bryan- where wrestling fans wanted them to make it to the top of WWE and be THE MAN in the company JUST SO BADLY that they convinced themselves any minor flirtation with people hearing of them outside of wrestling was living proof they're bigger than Austin, Rock, Hogan, and Gorgeous George in their primes combined and literally everyone in the world wants them to be the champion.) 

[The Nature Boy]

3 hours ago, caley said:

Been reading Jericho's 'Best in the World' book and what's really bizarre to me is how much Vince LOVES Jericho.  Like, he battles with him constantly (Fining him, disagreeing with booking ideas, trying to stop him from hosting a game show, threatening to fire him etc. etc.) but there's two incidents in particular that I thought were really crazy

-Batista bladed in a Jericho-Batista match after Vince had instituted his 'No Blood' policy.  After agents told Jericho how mad Vince was, Jericho texted Vince and told him what had happened and his side (I didn't know for certain he was going to blade but as the veteran I take full responsibility), and Vince texted him back that he was so mad he wouldn't talk to him for a week.  The following week, Vince said he was fining both Jericho and Batista, as well as the ref and agent who had no idea it was happening (Batista was fined $100,000 and Jericho and the refs something like $5000 each; Batista also said he was paying off the entire fine after Vince left and there was to be no discussion about it).  Jericho went up to Vince later and McMahon said "Let's never talk about this again, now give me a hugski."

-When Jericho kicked the flag in Brazil and almost got arrested and ended up being suspended and fined by WWE, he was texting back and forth with Vince who was really mad because they were trying to break WWE into Brazil and he figured this would be the last tour they did there.  After squaring everything up, Vince texted Jericho "I love you, you big idiot. ACDC still best band." (ACDC is Vince's favourite band and he and Jericho have some sort of running argument/discussion about it).

Could you imagine being friends with Vince McMahon? 

What a fucking adventure that would be.

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

I imagine that all the time.

- RAF

[RIPPA]

God I am so hesitant to post this and when I have to close the thread I will have no one to blame but myself

Paige and Alberto Del Rio are now engaged

[Sammo~!]

Didn't that happen last month, or the month before when she proposed to him in the ring in Puerto Rico?

[Cristobal]

Am I the only one who doesn't actually find this pairing that strange? Yeah, there's an age gap, but two second-generation wrestling lifers who take the business seriously but things like contractual obligations not so much.

[odessasteps]

7 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

God I am so hesitant to post this and when I have to close the thread I will have no one to blame but myself

Paige and Alberto Del Rio are now engaged

Supposed ADR was involved in some bust up in Austria, including beating up his own brother.

Tyson Zone.

[zev]

There you go, Rippa. Now you won't be the only one to blame, because I'm the one who posted the above tweet. I now offer an actual, legit hope that the hashtag within said tweet isn't a sign of things to come.

[ChesterCopperpot]

ADR apparently kicked the shit out of his brother tonight  in Austria 

http://mobil.krone.at/phone/kmm__1/story_id__546811/sendung_id__32/story.phtml

[Ace]

And he and Paige were at Raw a little while ago today.

 

[The Z]

36 minutes ago, ChesterCopperpot said:

ADR apparently kicked the shit out of his brother tonight  in Austria 

http://mobil.krone.at/phone/kmm__1/story_id__546811/sendung_id__32/story.phtml

That article is really absurd. According to this, they beat up some guy at a party and were arrested. Then at the police station they beat each other up and ten cops were needed to seperate them. They also had to use cable straps to constrain him, because the handcuffs were too small, but even those couldn't hold him and he just ripped them apart. They also talk about them demolishing the police station, but at the end everything was ok, because they apologized for the "act". What?

[Go2Sleep]

Double post

[Go2Sleep]

6 hours ago, The Z said:

It's just a hunch, but I think if you showed random people on the street pictures of wrestlers, a lot more people would recognize Bret Hart than anyone who came after him. People would recognize The Rock, but only for his movie career. I doubt anyone, but hardcore wrestling fans would recognize Steve Austin, John Cena or Triple H.

HHH, probably, but I don't see that being true at all for Austin or Cena. As an attitude era fan, I'm pretty confident most guys my age would easily recognize Steve Austin. His theme music gets played at sporting events in the US and people recognize it. Cena has done enough mainstream entertainment and talk shows to get his name outside the bubble. I know several women who don't care about wrestling at all that love John Cena. I'd say Cena has more name value than Bret as is, but in 20 years, it won't even be close.

[Phantom Lord]

3 hours ago, Michael Sweetser said:

As an aside, the thought of Vince texting is still weird to me.  Like when Jericho said Undertaker texted "LOL" to him.

Bob Backlund has a facebook. So, Undertaker on an Iphone (though I think he'd probably be a droid guy) having text convo's isn't too far off.

Vince only sleeps a couple hours a day though. Imagine getting those random texts at like 3 in the morning from him. You're just trying to fall asleep and he's still all wired and wants to talk random stuff.

[The Z]

4 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

HHH, probably, but I don't see that being true at all for Austin or Cena. As an attitude era fan, I'm pretty confident most guys my age would easily recognize Steve Austin. His theme music gets played at sporting events in the US and people recognize it. Cena has done enough mainstream entertainment and talk shows to get his name outside the bubble. I know several women who don't care about wrestling at all that love John Cena. I'd say Cena has more name value than Bret as is, but in 20 years, it won't even be close.

As I elaborated a few posts after this one, I was talking about the average person in Germany. I'm well aware that in the US Steve Austin would be recognized by a lot more people than Bret Hart,

[AxB]

7 minutes ago, Go2Sleep said:

HHH, probably, but I don't see that being true at all for Austin or Cena. As an attitude era fan, I'm pretty confident most guys my age would easily recognize Steve Austin. His theme music gets played at sporting events in the US and people recognize it. Cena has done enough mainstream entertainment and talk shows to get his name outside the bubble. I know several women who don't care about wrestling at all that love John Cena. I'd say Cena has more name value than Bret as is, but in 20 years, it won't even be close.

Z is talking about Germany, not America.

EDIT: Beaten by one second. I blame superior German engineering.

[Jamal]

1 hour ago, zev said:

That rock though....

[MonteCarl]

That just looks like it would be uncomfortable to wear