Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

JANUARY 2017 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


RIPPA

Recommended Posts

Just now, Wyld Samurai said:

So you're saying that Cena is on the level of global recognition as Hogan, The Rock, Savage and Austin?

Id have a hard time saying that. 

No, but you could still rank guys within a certain tier. He's definitely closer to those guys than Bret, Shawn, HHH, etc.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

So you're saying that Cena is on the level of global recognition as Hogan, The Rock, Savage and Austin?

Id have a hard time saying that. 

[devils advocate] Maybe in a certain demographic, like young kids or young women, thanks to his crossover stuff (movies, snl, etc). [/devils advocate]

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, RIPPA said:

I watched Lana having to stop Rusev from buying a Lamborghini this morning on Snapchat so not the worst way to start the new year.

Judging by her Snapchat, she would make for a fine Calvin Klein model.. even moreso than Cosmo Kramer, I'm afraid.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

So you're saying that Cena is on the level of global recognition as Hogan, The Rock, Savage and Austin?

Id have a hard time saying that. 

Right now, he's probably not as big of a name as Hogan, Rock or Austin, but he might be bigger than Savage. But ten years from now, when all the Cena kids from the last ten years are mid 20s-mid 30s, Cena will be the iconic legend of Wrestling. Austin will be the reality TV guy who was in some movies and used to wrestle. Rock will be the ageing Hollywood action guy who used to Wrestle, and Hogan will be looked at as a historical abnormality. As an embodiment of an era when Wrestling wasn't very good and nobody can understand why it was popular then. Like taking an Attitude Era kid and showing them Bruno Sammartino matches.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Discussing levels of stardom is tricky.  I always felt Batista was an Edge, Orton, Rey level star but somehow he broke out and became a movie star. Certainly nowhere to the level of The Rock yet but well above what I would have ever dreamed. I guess part of that is right place, right time.  Edge and Orton have tried doing things outside of WWE but it's never gone far above WWE Studio level. Same with The Miz who is a better actor than they are. 

Punk had risen above Edge and Orton. Punk was at a level where mainstream media people were invested in what was going on.

I look at stardom like this.  If I walked up to someone randomly and asked them who is John Cena.  I do think a lot of people would know. He's a wrestler. I think you can certainly make that argument for The Undertaker. I do not think you can do that for Orton or Edge.  I think they are big stars contained within the casual audience of WWE programming.

Back to my original point, I think out of all The Shield guys Roman Reigns certainly has the look and now the ringwork to back up his sustained push but they royally fucked up with how they handled him for 2+ years and I do not see him emerging as a next John Cena.

I think AJ Styles is someone they could push with hopes of achieving that level of success because let's face it here.. he's been a huge star wherever he goes. TNA had 2 million viewers at one point. AJ was the man.  AJ was the man in Japan.  Now he's the man within the "WWE Universe".  He's clearly recognized as the best wrestler. He's improved tremendously on the mic.  I think outside of John Cena he's the most well rounded guy they have right now and he's certainly the most loved and respected.  

Is there anyone who does not like AJ Styles? Yes, I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere about things he said on podcasts but I mean with the general audience. He also has the kind of look that I think WWE would view as someone who looks good on television and would look good on ESPN and other media outlets. 

Maybe I'm going too far with it but I don't see a reason why AJ Styles couldn't be at or above the Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart level of wrestling stardom. I don't see why he couldn't be John Cena.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, AxB said:

Right now, he's probably not as big of a name as Hogan, Rock or Austin, but he might be bigger than Savage. But ten years from now, when all the Cena kids from the last ten years are mid 20s-mid 30s, Cena will be the iconic legend of Wrestling. Austin will be the reality TV guy who was in some movies and used to wrestle. Rock will be the ageing Hollywood action guy who used to Wrestle, and Hogan will be looked at as a historical abnormality. As an embodiment of an era when Wrestling wasn't very good and nobody can understand why it was popular then. Like taking an Attitude Era kid and showing them Bruno Sammartino matches.

I put him around where Sting was, which was around where Savage is.   Some of that is the fact Cena and pre-Crow Sting have had very similar careers and very similar ability.  If Sting had been the one to go to WWE instead of Warrior, Sting would have been a franchise until the attitude Era- and then probably would have reinvented himself and gotten a few more great years.  Throw Cena into Sting's time and place and he'd get similar results as well.

 

As for AJ- he's limited because of his age.  Already pushing 40 so he's peak now- he will slow down very soon.  A slower AJ can still be great, but he won't be HBK-level.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Subtle long term booking with a possible 5 star match and huge payoff?

Sami Zayn wins the Rumble.

The next night on Raw Owens gloats about facing Sami. That they have come all this way and now he gets to put Sami away on the grandest stage of the all.

Foley and Steph out with the contract. They hype the New Era and talk about this being a match for the ages.

Sami comes out - "You want me in the main event now? For months you doubted me and now, after I win the Royal Rumble, you want to take the credit? No way Mick. Kevin, you and I said we were done with each other after the last time and Im keeping my word. Im not going to face you. Im going to Smackdown and Im going to fight for the WWE World Championship. Im going to WrestleMania to fight A...J...Styles! *mic drop*"

Then Raw sets up Jericho turning on Owens (or the other way around) for that match.

Styles v Zayn

Owens v Jericho

Cena v Taker

Reigns v Strowman

Triple H v Rollins

Lesnar v Goldberg 3

Orton v Wyatt

Miz v Joe/Nak/Shane (DBrys Chosen one)

A couple of multi person matches and at least one womens title. Throw in the HOF and a tag/CW title match on the pre show and there is your 6 hour WrestleMania.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Three pro-wrestlers have ever hosted SNL - Hogan, Rock, Cena. Cena is the cross-over wrestling celebrity right now. He may not quite be full-on "household name" that EVERYBODY knows even if they know nothing about wrestling, but if anybody knows even just a LITTLE about wrestling today, they know Cena. He's up there on the top of all time wrestling personalities. He has been THE guy for the past 10 years. He's at that tippy top level.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, MonteCarl said:

Three pro-wrestlers have ever hosted SNL - Hogan, Rock, Cena. Cena is the cross-over wrestling celebrity right now. He may not quite be full-on "household name" that EVERYBODY knows even if they know nothing about wrestling, but if anybody knows even just a LITTLE about wrestling today, they know Cena. He's up there on the top of all time wrestling personalities. He has been THE guy for the past 10 years. He's at that tippy top level.

He's also a popular meme amongst people who don't watch Wrestling.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, MORELOCK said:

I'm just going to come out and say it since several people have brought it up as fantasy booking: Sami Zayn winning the Royal Rumble is a very bad idea. 

You could have just said fantasy booking is a bad idea

  • Like 12
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we're taking global recognition wasn't Bret a massive European and global star?

When I'm ranking wrestling legends in tiers I have a hard time knowing what to do with Savage and Rock. Hogan and Austin were the phenomenons that popped the business. Without Austin Rock could've been out of the business in 3 years selling real estate, there's really no way of knowing.

Meanwhile, Hart was someone who never had what would generally be considered "it" and was given the ball out of nowhere in non-ceremonious fashion. The fact that the company was able to stay afloat (albeit barely) on his back should be a credit to him.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bret is a Wrestling fan's Wrestler. He was put on top during a downswing to have good matches, because although Vince loves the idea of having people who don't like Wrestling watch his shows (Wrestling fans will always watch Wrestling; Non-Wrestling fans won't, unless you get a Superstar), if he knows he can't draw mainstream eyes, he puts a worker on top. Satisfy the audience you do have.

At the time of his top run, house show business was better in Europe than the USA, so they'd tour over here much more often. But I wouldn't say he was a big star in Europe exactly. He was the top guy in the top company, and a lot of people consider him to have been the best Ace because he was a better worker than those who immediately proceeded and succeeded him (and the New Generation Era was better than the Attitude Era in terms of actual Wrestling matches with Wrestling in them). But he wasn't a mainstream deal or anything. He might have been bigger in Canada, I don't know.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, AxB said:

Bret is a Wrestling fan's Wrestler. He was put on top during a downswing to have good matches, because although Vince loves the idea of having people who don't like Wrestling watch his shows (Wrestling fans will always watch Wrestling; Non-Wrestling fans won't, unless you get a Superstar), if he knows he can't draw mainstream eyes, he puts a worker on top. Satisfy the audience you do have.

At the time of his top run, house show business was better in Europe than the USA, so they'd tour over here much more often. But I wouldn't say he was a big star in Europe exactly. He was the top guy in the top company, and a lot of people consider him to have been the best Ace because he was a better worker than those who immediately proceeded and succeeded him (and the New Generation Era was better than the Attitude Era in terms of actual Wrestling matches with Wrestling in them). But he wasn't a mainstream deal or anything. He might have been bigger in Canada, I don't know.

I don't know. Wrestling was never more popular here in Germany than during the early 1990s and Bret Hart was massively popular.

It's just a hunch, but I think if you showed random people on the street pictures of wrestlers, a lot more people would recognize Bret Hart than anyone who came after him. People would recognize The Rock, but only for his movie career. I doubt anyone, but hardcore wrestling fans would recognize Steve Austin, John Cena or Triple H.

The Undertaker has all of them beat, though. He's always the first guy that comes up, when non-wrestling fans talk about wrestling.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Casey said:

Hardcore wrestling fans would only recognize Steve Austin? What the hell?

I was talking about Germany and yeah, the attitude era was no big deal here.

Once the nWo started, WCW was always more popular over here until the very end and even that was just a niche.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, The Z said:

I don't know. Wrestling was never more popular here in Germany than during the early 1990s and Bret Hart was massively popular.

It's just a hunch, but I think if you showed random people on the street pictures of wrestlers, a lot more people would recognize Bret Hart than anyone who came after him. People would recognize The Rock, but only for his movie career. I doubt anyone, but hardcore wrestling fans would recognize Steve Austin, John Cena or Triple H.

The Undertaker has all of them beat, though. He's always the first guy that comes up, when non-wrestling fans talk about wrestling.

I'm fairly certain Bret was a far bigger worldwide star than people take him credit for. The WWF in the 90s was definitely more global in terms of touring than they are today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, MoeCristyV.1.6 said:

Yeah, no... that's not really true...

Something something David Hasselhoff......

I'm curious, how old are you? I'm 32 and  that's at least how I perceive it.

I am 100% sure, if I showed my mom pictures of Bret Hart and Steve Austin she would recognize Hart and not recognize Austin. There's not a single doubt in my mind.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...