2017 WHATEVER THE HELL USED TO BE TNA DISCUSSION THREAD

[JohnnyJ]

Protecting your intellectual property is not bush league. What is bush league is going back and forth with a former talent when there should be 1,000 things more important right now for them. You have new management and want a fresh start and you can't stop talking about Matt Hardy.  Who are you trying to impress? The 2,500 people who give a damn?

This whole thing has been so incredibly dumb. Wasn't this all over tna coming up with a plan to increase revenue to the detriment of their talent and it blew up in their face? Not exactly an admirable position. So even if you're right, it's nothing to brag about. And in the court of public opinion, you look pretty shitty. 

So why give the story even more legs?

[Thibs]

1 hour ago, JohnnyJ said:

Protecting your intellectual property is not bush league. What is bush league is going back and forth with a former talent when there should be 1,000 things more important right now for them. You have new management and want a fresh start and you can't stop talking about Matt Hardy. 

Yes, because its them that can't stop talking about Matt Hardy. Have you been following this whole thing?

They've been on the receiving end of batshit crazy twitter rants on a daily/weekly basis for close to 3 months now! Some of the accusations being made included violating child labor laws, stealing IP, ageism, fuck that owl shirts and whatever else Reby's hormones told her to say that day. 

But they should just sit back and say nothing. After all, the unbiased wrestling media will do a great job judging this entire thing fairly and based on the facts. 

Besides a few sarcastic tweets from Nordholm, this is literally the only thing they've said on the subject  and they ended it by saying he would have no further comments. 

[nate]

Look, maybe we just don't want to accept that Impactnanthem might have done something right.    That's end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it talk, right there.

[JonnyLaw]

Your honor, these selected and redacted excerpts of a contract with no evidence of a signature totally prove my case.  

 

Also, people seem to be sleeping on the part of the released contract that says TNA's license for the IP becomes "non-exclusive" upon termination of the contract.

[Thibs]

9 minutes ago, nate said:

Look, maybe we just don't want to accept that Impactnanthem might have done something right.    That's end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it talk, right there.

This. 

Or that this Nordholm might not know the wrestling business but he knows business. 

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

4 hours ago, Thibs said:

Now that he's shown that they signed contracts signing away IP rights, he's bush league. 

To be fair, he hasn't shown that. If he remotely came across as a professional businessman then I might choose to believe him anyways. But he doesn't, so who knows really?

Reby has certainly denied that this was the final contract signed, and even if that contract was signed it could easily have been deprecated by another agreement.

 

 

[Thibs]

3 minutes ago, Sin Carne said:

To be fair, he hasn't shown that. If he remotely came across as a professional businessman then I might choose to believe him anyways. But he doesn't, so who knows really?

Not sure what he's done to come off non professional in that interview. 

Quote

Reby has certainly denied that this was the final contract signed

Speaking of professionalism though..

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

5 minutes ago, Thibs said:

Not sure what he's done to come off non professional in that interview. 

Speaking of professionalism though..

Well Reby gonna Reby. So Nordholm:

a) Looks like shit. His hair all over his place, and so is his shirt. I mean if collar bones annoy you that much fine, but at least get it ironed.

b) Straight off the bat says Hardys don't genuinely dispute Impact's ownership of the gimmick. That's uncareful, unnecessary and on the cusp of being potentially slanderous.

c) He fidgets a lot. 2:30 he starts rubbing he table in a weird way. He leans back and forward a lot too.

Basically this is a guy who clearly has no media training choosing to go on camera for 30 minutes to represent his company. That's not professional.

[clintthecrippler]

I think my earlier lashing out is inflected by my own experience working for a large media company where a lot of contracts and external email communications with our business partners pass through my desk, and at least within the company I work for, if I was a party to distributing any of our contract language or business communications, my ass would be out the door. Even if I felt I was justified in defending our company against external attacks.

It's just my opinion in the business world, that even with Reby and Matt lashing out on Twitter, and wrestling newsletters/blogs providing biased commentary, sharing company docs in anything other than a courtroom setting is simply bad business. 

It still seems counter-intuitive - to me at least - to forming relationships with new partners to put yourself and your company in a position where word around the water cooler is that the minute a deal goes south and some heat starts coming your way, your response is to eagerly put your business out there to media instead of letting the legal process work itself out and be vindicated that way.

And I would think it would be a bush-league move if WWE, NJPW, or ROH did it as well.

[RIPPA]

Just for another perspective - here is Meltzer in the newest WON

Quote

To break all this down, WWE is clearly not going to try and work out a deal where they acknowledge that another party owns a gimmick they are marketing. The idea that WWE isn’t interested in the gimmick couldn’t be farther from the truth. If they weren’t, there would be no negotiations going on with the Hardys and no legal issues, given they are under contract to WWE for a number of years. WWE very much wants to use the gimmick because the belief is the gimmick can be a merchandise goldmine. The idea WWE doesn’t want the gimmick not only flies in the face of common sense, as well as all actions by all parties involved, not to mention we’ve been told that directly many times. If the Hardys were to get ownership, that would likely be different but WWE isn’t negotiating with Impact for something the Hardys claim that they, and not Impact, own, and believe they will win when all is said and done. If WWE was against using it, Matt wouldn’t be allowed to constantly tease it on television. The crux of the argument is the Hardys believe that their contracts were violated several different times and believe that thus, the contract won’t hold up in court. Anthem offered as late as 5/23 to negotiate a deal with the Hardys to be able to use the gimmick in WWE, but they are unwilling to sell the ownership of the gimmick and the trademarks to the gimmick. Apparently it’s gotten to the point where Billy Corgan has been put in a position as almost a mediator to work out a deal between the two sides who are jockeying for public approval while trying to make the bet deal possible. The Hardys refuse to purchase the rights to something they believe they own and will win if it’s goes before a judge, nor to purchase the rights to use it without giving them ownership of the trademarks and the gimmick. Another key argument they are pushing is that Senor Benjamin and Maxel were used by Impact as television characters with no contract, no payment and with no releases signed. The notable part of this is a part of WWE would think the last thing the company would want would be a ruling that if a character came up with their gimmick (key case in point would be Stone Cold Steve Austin), would that person have the rights to it if they were to then work for a competitor? That’s the last kind of ruling WWE would want. The key to this being different was the Hardys funded Impact tapings on their property to get the gimmick over

 

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

Apparently Eric Bischoff said this about Nordholm:

Ed’s playing all new levels of small ball. It’s just a very amateur and desperate to me. He’s just playing small ball. It doesn’t make any sense to me. There are confidentiality agreements that go both ways in a contract. When you start making moves like that and posturing. With 250,000 viewers nationwide, maybe he feels the need to hold on to three or four them that may or may not watch the show because of this? That’s what it feels like to me. The audience they have is so small that he’s desperately trying to hold on to half a dozen viewers because he is leaking out info that makes them believe him. That’s how small ball this feels to me. It doesn’t make any sense. You start divulging portions of contracts to defend yourself in the peripheral wrestling media and you are basically hanging a big sign around your neck that says “Small Ball” and on the other side is says “Mark”.

Ouch.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/842883-eric-bischoff-says-ed-nordholm-is-playing-small-ball-w-hardys-has-sign-around-his-neck-saying-mark

 

[Spritenaut 32]

Man, I feel like there's no reason not to settle this except personal animosities.  I get that the WWE doesn't want to see a court ruling establish a precedent that would allow workers to take their gimmicks when they leave the company, but they have all workers sign over the rights to their ring name and gimmicks for merchandising purposes anyway, so it's not like this would be much different.  Contract language would differ some, but the contract itself wouldn't be substantially different,

It seems like the best solution would be for Matt and Jeff to "buy" the gimmicks from TNA, with WWE quietly fronting the money,  That way, they don't appear to be directly involved and there isn't a court ruling that establishes a potentially unfavorable precedent,

If I was the WWE or the Hardys, my fear would be that the legal case drags on too long and the value of the gimmick is diminished by the time the Hardys get the rights to it, assuming they do.  Or, TNA might prevail in court, in which case you either have to negotiate with them from scratch or give up on getting the gimmick.  And, without the threat of losing in court, TNA's asking price probably goes up.

Same for the Hardys.  Presumably, they're near the end of their careers.  They could cool off by the time the court case is decided, or Matt could decide he's ready to go home (Reby is pregnant again) or they could get injured.....

TNA stands to benefit financially, but winning in court isn't automatic even if they do have contract law on their side,  If they did breach the contract, as the Hardys allege, it's a risk waiting for a verdict.

I don't get it.  All parties risk something happen to diminish the potential value of the gimmick, so it seems like all sides should be willing to negotiate.  Since WWE is worries about an unfavorable ruling setting a precedent, they should be the most willing to negotiate, especially since whatever they pay for the rights is probably going to be small compared to their total revenue and profitability.

[RRR]

On 5/24/2017 at 4:46 PM, Thibs said:

They've been on the receiving end of batshit crazy twitter rants on a daily/weekly basis for close to 3 months now! 

Twitter attacks? Oh the humanity!!

[JohnnyJ]

46 minutes ago, Zartan said:

Twitter attacks? Oh the humanity!!

[joseph2112]

Hey guys, Eric thinks they're playing small ball if you didn't get it from that quote. 

[Thibs]

What kind of ball was it when he sent Hogan out on TV to burn a WOL newsletter?

[AxB]

Isn't playing small ball a legitimately effective tactic in Basketball now?

[Dewar]

Anthem ain't got no point guards!!!!!

[Technico Support]

On 5/23/2017 at 3:34 PM, Zartan said:

Ed Norholm = Jim Herd 2.0 

 

 

On 5/23/2017 at 8:54 PM, Craig H said:

My money is on Ed appearing on Impact by June 22. Just a random date I picked in the near future.

 

On 5/24/2017 at 11:46 AM, clintthecrippler said:

Seriously, if I am a business or vendor that Anthem is in talks of working together with, why the fuck would I even think of moving forward on a partnership with someone who so easily leaks contract information and internal business communication emails?

Ed couldn't even be bothered to have a lower tier jobber or office flunkie "anonymously" post it on Reddit. The idiot literally said "Hi, I am Ed Nordhelm. Here is language from our contracts that our wrestlers sign and copies of my email correspondence with another company involving IP negotiations."

This isn't even about being a bad wrestling company at this point. This is literally failing basics of Business 101.

Just when you thought you were safe with Dixie gone, here comes another thirsty-ass attention whore petty executive desperate for his five minutes in the spotlight.  As @clintthecrippler said, this just looks awful and rightfully should give anyone who might do business with Impact pause.  

This is a 50something year old man in a position of power in a company and he's engaging in a Twitter slapfight like a tween because he needs the last word and he wants the approval of the marks.  Insert Trump comparison here.  Can't wait til he cuts a promo telling the Hardys to cash him outside.

I get the feeling people are siding with the Hardys because Impact is trying to get some money for something they had zero hand in building and only have some claim to it because the Hardys created it while under contract.  Impact had no creative input and didn't pay for anything.  This is a company that could never resist the temptation of stepping on their own dicks and could never come up with this gimmick on their own, so it's shitty that they have essentially fallen ass backwards into a pile of money.  It feels unearned.  While it might be their legal right, it's still shitty.

If WWE licensed the gimmick from Impact, Impact would make more money off it than any other revenue stream this year, and that's just sad.

[BurningBeard]

1 hour ago, Thibs said:

What kind of ball was it when he sent Hogan out on TV to burn a WOL newsletter?

As if you don't think that was Hogan and his creative control in full swing

[JohnnyJ]

23 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I get the feeling people are siding with the Hardys because Impact is trying to get some money for something they had zero hand in building and only have some claim to it because the Hardys created it while under contract.  Impact had no creative input and didn't pay for anything.  This is a company that could never resist the temptation of stepping on their own dicks and could never come up with this gimmick on their own, so it's shitty that they have essentially fallen ass backwards into a pile of money.  It feels unearned.  While it might be their legal right, it's still shitty.

For me the biggest point is that the Hardys did not want to go anywhere. This whole thing appears to be over Anthem insisting on getting a piece of their independent bookings. Realistically, how much was that going to amount to per year? $100k? $200k? $300k? Instead of coming after your talents existing income, how about working with your talents and coming up with a business model where everyone benefits. 

So at the end of all of this nonsense who came out ahead? Impact isn't better off. The only reason anyone talks about Impact is to discuss the Hardys falling out. The Hardys arent better off. They now wrestle more dates than they would want and lost their creativity. The answer is WWE. Even without the gimmick WWE landed a million dollar act. 

The lesson from all of this shouldn't be about contract language, it's about talent relations. 

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, JohnnyJ said:

For me the biggest point is that the Hardys did not want to go anywhere. This whole thing appears to be over Anthem insisting on getting a piece of their independent bookings.

That's really something, isn't it?  What was Impact's argument there?  "These guys are making money because they're on our TV!"  If their TV was such a scary good draw that, in theory, Impact viewers will seek out their favorite Impact Superstars on local indies, why do they have no house show business?  Idiots.  They're just lying to themselves.  Their TV doesn't mean shit.

in the end, they didn't realize they really only had two options.  You can't have all the money, so your choices are "some" or "none."  And they cut off their nose to spite their face by choosing "none."  New owners, same old incompetence.  

TNA/Impact: Started as a scam by old school carnies, became a vanity project, now it's pretty much nothing but nobody in charge realizes it.

[Thibs]

So in essence they didn't give the Hardys everything they wanted so they're the bad guys. 

Anyway, not sure if this was posted but apparently Matt was denied his trademark request for a the "Broke Universe".

[Thibs]

3 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

As if you don't think that was Hogan and his creative control in full swing

If that's the case it makes Bischoff look like even more of a boob.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

10 minutes ago, Thibs said:

So in essence they didn't give the Hardys everything they wanted so they're the bad guys. 

Anyway, not sure if this was posted but apparently Matt was denied his trademark request for a the "Broke Universe".

Not entirely sure that's the essence. You could actually be Small Balls himself.