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SDL 12/27/16 Presents 'Wildcard Finals'


Niners Fan in CT

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Pretty awesome show for just 3 matches.

Felt it was way too soon for the Wyatts to lose the titles already, but at the same time it was a cool moment for American Alpha that did feel like the right time for them where they had lost just enough chances already that they needed to win while it still mattered. I preferred the Orton/Bray team which had been looking properly dominant and unstoppable, then the first time they do the Freebird rule they lose the titles. Hope this isn't their end as the Orton/Bray pairing was killing it.

Figured with the hype on this show that one of the titles would change, thought it would be the women's but glad it wasn't. I still really dug this Alexa/Becky match and thought both brought some great work. Solid intriguing finish as well. Alexa is my current favorite to watch. Loved her brief post-match promo. "Must've been Sasha. Ok it was Nia Jax" -walks off. Greatness. I'm with those guessing it was Tamina.

Obviously the WWE title wouldn't change hands but a great main event nonetheless. Despite that, I still wanted to buy the Ziggler superkick near fall and then the excellent End of Zig Zag mix, totally would've bought that as the finish. Great promo from Cena as usual. Kinda surprised they're doing Cena/Styles at the Rumble instead of Mania, but I don't think Cena will just come back and win the title straight away for #16 without a longer build to it after being back. Good stuff all around.

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I think it's fairly clear that the plan was always for the Wyatts to drop the titles on this show so they could get to the next step in their story. The titles were secondary.

So AA not being build up yet was because the titles were supposed to go to the Hype Bros

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So  I thought with Cena announcing he's getting a title shot at the Rumble that Corbin was going to win the belt by pinning Ziggler. Then we'd have Cena winning the belt at the Rumble, AJ wins the Rumble and we get Cena vs. AJ at Mania. However this current set up means we could get Cena/AJ/Corbin/Ziggler/Wyatt/Orton in an Elimination Chamber match

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8 hours ago, Kyuubi said:

Sure, you can have your own perception of events, but when you are wrong, it is bordering on cognitive dissonance. 

To be honest, this basically sums up my reaction to most of the comments about Cena on this board.  I generally find the nitpicking on Cena to be odd.

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Also, Cena is 100% the face in this thing. Please. The rationalization smart fans have for rooting for heels is really tiresome.

What Cena said on Talking Smack: I'm not done. I'm not injured. I had a bad year in 2016 in terms of my win-loss record. I have something to prove to myself. 

What AJ Styles is: An a-hole of the highest order. He tries to stock the odds against him. He gained his early advantage on Cena by manipulating a situation where his buddies from Japan attacked him, and then spent months bragging about it. AJ beat Cena fairly (which Cena admits) and then took Cena's respect of leaving his armband in the ring/salute to the fans and wore it as a trophy. AJ whines about Cena "big-timing" him, as if playing mind-games and showing confidence isn't part of competition.

Wrestling fans are heels. We wish we could cheat, brag, manipulate and take advantage of situations in our daily lives like heels do. However, real life and social norms prevent us from doing so. It's the nature of normal people to not be jerks. But we want to be so badly. We want to be bullies. We want to be on top. We think the only way to "win" in this world -- to become president, to become rich, to become the boss -- is by taking shortcuts and cheating. We just don't have the balls to break the rules of our society to do so. So we now live vicariously through jerks. There's a certain honor in being a jerk, and it's something we support, but we just can't do.

Like... Why does Kevin Owens get cheered over Roman Reigns? KO is a great performer, but he's a total butt-munch. He cut the line in NXT by ruthlessly attacking his best friend at his highest moment. He constantly wins via cheating. He cheapshots non-stop in his matches. He has also manipulated his "best friend" several times to avoid getting into a physical altercation. Roman hasn't done any of that. He's just tried to fight the good fight.

That's why Daniel Bryan and the YES! Movement was so remarkable. There is still a part of us that knows we are fighting underneath, and the ultimate victory comes from beating the odds fairly. Doing it that way is also hard. But it's truly honorable. 

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The Daniel Bryan storyline also added the element of the perceived corporate hatred of an undersized, vegan goof (who could work circles around all his opponents in his sleep, but was being kept around to be continually humiliated).  The WWE did a masterful job of promoting him via an extremely rare and risky negative push. It got him all the way to having 80,000 people shouting Yes over and over as he concluded the biggest show in a decade. He, unfortunately, couldn't hold up his end of the bargain because he's prone to concussions. 

Cena and Reigns both get booed because they're tagged with the "corporate champ look", fair or not.  Cena was smart enough to turn into the skid and play off both sides.  To those people to whom he is a hero, shaking off a loss is noble and getting back up to fight again is admirable. To the people that "hate" him, shaking off a loss is infuriating and getting back up to fight again is moving the goalposts.  That's the brilliance of John Cena's character. Reigns is in the same boat, but hasn't shown yet that he knows how to play the crowd how Cena does. 

KO & AJ both get cheered, in addition to the reasons Gregg listed above, I firmly believe, because they're "not supposed" to be where they are.  Fat indie guy/TNA Alumnus should be more than enough to keep them down and losing to the Cenas & Romans of the world.  It's their personal greatness that keeps them on top.  It's the heel side to the Daniel Bryan story. Owens & Styles will get theirs for being extreme shitheads, but it should come via someone who they underestimate or aren't expecting. Losing to Reigns and Cena, respectively, deflates the character they've spent a year building up. 

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John Cena saying he deserves a title shot "because I'm John Cena" isn't a face move in my book. Nor is "I was injured and that's why you beat me at SummerSlam", especially coming from the guy who claims to never make excuses for his losses.

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11 minutes ago, Casey said:

John Cena saying he deserves a title shot "because I'm John Cena" isn't a face move in my book. Nor is "I was injured and that's why you beat me at SummerSlam", especially coming from the guy who claims to never make excuses for his losses.

Dude's won 15-16 titles. He's a legend. He deservedly gets a title shot against AJ. And it isn't an excuse -- he had a shoulder thing, but is back and healthy. AJ owned 2016, as he said, but now Cena's back.

We'll agree to disagree. But that's all a perfectly fine rationalization and justification for everything.

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10 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

Dude's won 15-16 titles. He's a legend. He deservedly gets a title shot against AJ. And it isn't an excuse -- he had a shoulder thing, but is back and healthy. AJ owned 2016, as he said, but now Cena's back.

We'll agree to disagree. But that's all a perfectly fine rationalization and justification for everything.

Using his career accomplishments and name value as a legitimate reason for deserving a title match when he's barely been there for the past few months is Hulk Hogan/Rock levels. I'm not denying that it's a good reason, but it's something I can only imagine a heel using and getting the right response. Ultimately, that's what makes John Cena who he is. He can walk that line like few people can. That line seemed like the beginning of something more, but to others it's just John Cena being his usual fiery babyface self.

"You only beat me at SummerSlam because I had a shoulder injury" is definitely an excuse, though. I don't know any other way to take that statement from Cena on Talking Smack. It made AJ's victory seem inconsequential.

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2 hours ago, Casey said:

John Cena saying he deserves a title shot "because I'm John Cena" isn't a face move in my book. Nor is "I was injured and that's why you beat me at SummerSlam", especially coming from the guy who claims to never make excuses for his losses.

 

It's a babyface move inasmuch as "frustrated isn't the goddamn word for it, this is bullshit!" was a babyface move by Bret Hart. Like, yeah, he had a point, he WAS getting screwed over in his attempts to fairly win the title, but people were just kind of tired of him and tired of hearing about it.

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1 hour ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Bray should take pointers from John Cena's character on how to be a cult leader and manipulate people. Just wait until some kid kills his parents and scrawls Cenation in blood on the walls. You'll see...

"Young man.  You've been found guilty on two counts of 1st degree murder. Now some people may not like what you did.  And some people may disagree.  But the important thing is that you are here and you are here to stand up for their right to feel whatever way they want. And in light of the mitigating circumstances of hustle, loyalty, and respect that you've shown every day by BEING HERE TO FIGHT FOR THEIR RIGHT TO DISAPPROVE OF YOU!!! I sentence you to a length of time equal to that of rehabbing from a major neck surgery. BAILIFF RELEASE THE BOY IN SIX DAYS!!!!"

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3 hours ago, Greggulator said:

Also, Cena is 100% the face in this thing. Please. The rationalization smart fans have for rooting for heels is really tiresome.

What Cena said on Talking Smack: I'm not done. I'm not injured. I had a bad year in 2016 in terms of my win-loss record. I have something to prove to myself. 

What AJ Styles is: An a-hole of the highest order. He tries to stock the odds against him. He gained his early advantage on Cena by manipulating a situation where his buddies from Japan attacked him, and then spent months bragging about it. AJ beat Cena fairly (which Cena admits) and then took Cena's respect of leaving his armband in the ring/salute to the fans and wore it as a trophy. AJ whines about Cena "big-timing" him, as if playing mind-games and showing confidence isn't part of competition.

Wrestling fans are heels. We wish we could cheat, brag, manipulate and take advantage of situations in our daily lives like heels do. However, real life and social norms prevent us from doing so. It's the nature of normal people to not be jerks. But we want to be so badly. We want to be bullies. We want to be on top. We think the only way to "win" in this world -- to become president, to become rich, to become the boss -- is by taking shortcuts and cheating. We just don't have the balls to break the rules of our society to do so. So we now live vicariously through jerks. There's a certain honor in being a jerk, and it's something we support, but we just can't do.

Like... Why does Kevin Owens get cheered over Roman Reigns? KO is a great performer, but he's a total butt-munch. He cut the line in NXT by ruthlessly attacking his best friend at his highest moment. He constantly wins via cheating. He cheapshots non-stop in his matches. He has also manipulated his "best friend" several times to avoid getting into a physical altercation. Roman hasn't done any of that. He's just tried to fight the good fight.

That's why Daniel Bryan and the YES! Movement was so remarkable. There is still a part of us that knows we are fighting underneath, and the ultimate victory comes from beating the odds fairly. Doing it that way is also hard. But it's truly honorable. 

There is showing confidence and then there was using excuses.

And how is John Cena a "good guy" when he does bully his opponents with childish gestures and the first thing he does is insult their manhood. How he is the good guy when we have seen him steal his "best friend" at the time's girlfriend and then proceed to sex shame said girlfriend for cheating with him? 

The point that you are missing here is that Cena is a designated hero. His actions don't match the character the WWE wants to portray him as. AJ is swarmy, yes, absolutely. No one is calling AJ a face. And I would root for WWE faces if they were actually good faces because Roman Reigns and John Cena or fucking Seth Rollins ain't inspiring much confidence. In Lucha Underground, I have no problem rooting for the faces but in the name of sports entertainment, John Cena comes off as an entitled brat who willfully does not acknowledge defeat. There is no growth with him just saying his loss does not matter and it diminishes anyone that beats him especially since he is not there most of the time and that other guy usually is. And I don't root for Kevin Owens in so much that I do not like a guy who actually has no character and loses badass points every time he speaks.

He shrugged off a legitimate loss as if it were nothing. As if he did not make a huge fucking deal facing AJ Styles. "Calling it a Dream match." As if he was not the one making a stink about AJ trying to save himself from being buried. Like John also loss to Dean Ambrose this year, but him saying that "well I had a shoulder injury and the only guy that has faced me at 100% was JBL" was pure bullshit and also delegitimized Dean's victory as well. He moved the goal posts because beating John Cena suddenly does not mean anything anymore when he had an entire year of US Title Open that revolved around beating him and not so much about winning the US Title in of itself. AJ Styles is the gatekeeper that allowed no one through, but once someone did get through, motherfucker moved the fucking gate. 

John Cena set himself up as the guy who tests the new guard and when that New Era overshadows him, all of the sudden it's "stop overlooking me guys, I am not done yet." All of the sudden, "I was hurt and injured" or "you only beat me once."

 

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11 hours ago, Casey said:

John Cena saying he deserves a title shot "because I'm John Cena" isn't a face move in my book. Nor is "I was injured and that's why you beat me at SummerSlam", especially coming from the guy who claims to never make excuses for his losses.

Bingo. Heels make excuses. Heels think they are owed something.  Babyfaces prove the doubters wrong. They do not talk about the old days when they were healthy especially to another guy who is also banged up.  Gregg is wrong.

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