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Roadblock II


Dolfan in NYC

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16 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

No, they just chose Bayley over Sasha as the person that's really going to take Charlotte down. Is that the wrong choice?

That's not really related to anything I said. Charlotte dominated both of them at Clash of Champions. She controlled the entire match and then won clean as a whistle at the end. She wins all of her matches clean. That's how they booked heels like HHH and it didn't work. Are you seeing these crowd reactions?  they are nonexistent.

Also, if the story is Bayley being the one overcoming Charlotte why have they wrestled 3 times already. Bayley was called up months ago and they had her losing matches to Dana.  The whole division has been booked poorly.

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9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

That's not really related to anything I said. Charlotte dominated both of them at Clash of Champions. She controlled the entire match and then won clean as a whistle at the end. She wins all of her matches clean. That's how they booked heels like HHH and it didn't work. Are you seeing these crowd reactions?  they are nonexistent.

Also, if the story is Bayley being the one overcoming Charlotte why have they wrestled 3 times already. Bayley was called up months ago and they had her losing matches to Dana.  The whole division has been booked poorly.

She doesn't win all of her matches clean. She had Ric with her and then Dana. She's also lost absolutely clean on a number of occasions. Or did those never happen? Is Bayley not 3-0 on her because she beat her clean 3 times? Did Sasha not beat her clean on multiple RAW's to win the title? HHH wasn't doing that.

When heel champs only cheat to win, all we hear is complaints that champs are booked too weak. When they get a few clean wins, they're suddenly HHH and it's death.

The crowd reactions have mostly been great for the RAW women's stuff except for a couple of times. The crowd on Monday wasn't into anything on the show except for them.

The booking hasn't been perfect but on the whole, they've been moving things where they need to. It's been nitpicked more than the booking of anything ever. I think they've done pretty well given that they only have 3 women who can do anything and only 1 who can cut a promo.

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7 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

She doesn't win all of her matches clean. She had Ric with her and then Dana.

The booking hasn't been perfect but on the whole, they've been moving things where they need to. It's been nitpicked more than the booking of anything ever. I think they've done pretty well given that they only have 3 women who can do anything and only 1 who can cut a promo.

I was talking about this feud with Sasha and Bayley sprinkled in. She won clean at all of these PPVs for the past like 5 months. SummerSlam, Clash, Hell in a Cell, Survivor Series, Roadblock.  Also, you bring up the matches on RAW she's been super protected on special events.

I disagree with your other point there also.  Emma can work and cut a promo. She's been ready to work for weeks. Summer Rae can cut a promo. She's not a terrible wrestler either. Alicia Fox has some solid character work and she can wrestle also. Why aren't they being utilized.

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What's wrong with protecting someone? Is it just because it's not the person you want in the role? Charlotte being dominant in the big events leading to her losing at the biggest event of them all is a fine storyline.

Her and Sasha had a bunch of good to great matches that elevated the title to something that headlined RAW and did a great number. They easily could have headlined Roadblock over Owens and Reigns and it wouldn't have been out of place. How does that happen if everything is so poorly done?

Are we sure Emma is ready? I'm a huge fan of hers and think she belongs in the mix but they've been delaying the return. That doesn't really change the last few months, though. Summer Rae is also injured and limited beyond a 3-5 minute C-show match. Alicia Fox is a relic, IMO. She can execute 2 or 3 moves nicely and that's about it. They don't have depth and they put too many people on Smackdown when they did the split. Paige was supposed to be in the mix but we know what happened with her. 

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We're not going to agree on this.  I don't think there's an issue with a heel winning matches clean but when it's every big match on every big show it's too much for me. You can say Sasha beat her on TV but none of the reigns lasted more than a month, I don't think Sasha successfully defended her title once. Her tapping out with two seconds left was horrendous. Charlotte being the one in the position to make the comeback was backwards.

I think you're giving creative a pass for a lot of garbage.  Bayley has been floundering for months.  Nia appears and then disappears and then appears again.  I think all the other women could be utilized.  Look at Smackdown Live. Carmella is far from a good in-ring performer but look how much she's been used and she's improving week by week and her character work is great.

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1 hour ago, Charlie M. said:

No, they just chose Bayley over Sasha as the person that's really going to take Charlotte down. Is that the wrong choice?

The wrong choice is Charlotte as the ace. I go back and forth on who's better between Bayley and Sasha, but one thing's for sure, that's the feud the division should be built around.

I don't want to sound too negative about Charlotte, because she is quite good and should be a featured wrestler in the division, but Sasha and Bayley are the driving forces behind the women's revolution. Charlotte's been forced down our throats since mid 2014, and hasn't had the reactions or matches to back up her push. She's much more Roman Reigns than HHH as far as booking goes, except they have the decency to acknowledge she's a heel.

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The money was in Bayley winning the belt and beating Charlotte on ppv months ago, and a jealous Sasha turning heel on her because Bayley did what she couldn't.

That works a lot better before Sasha won the belt 3 times.

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8 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

We're not going to agree on this.  I don't think there's an issue with a heel winning matches clean but when it's every big match on every big show it's too much for me. You can say Sasha beat her on TV but none of the reigns lasted more than a month, I don't think Sasha successfully defended her title once. Her tapping out with two seconds left was horrendous. Charlotte being the one in the position to make the comeback was backwards.

I think you're giving creative a pass for a lot of garbage.  Bayley has been floundering for months.  Nia appears and then disappears and then appears again.  I think all the other women could be utilized.  Look at Smackdown Live. Carmella is far from a good in-ring performer but look how much she's been used and she's improving week by week and her character work is great.

 

8 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

The wrong choice is Charlotte as the ace. I go back and forth on who's better between Bayley and Sasha, but one thing's for sure, that's the feud the division should be built around.

I don't want to sound too negative about Charlotte, because she is quite good and should be a featured wrestler in the division, but Sasha and Bayley are the driving forces behind the women's revolution. Charlotte's been forced down our throats since mid 2014, and hasn't had the reactions or matches to back up her push. She's much more Roman Reigns than HHH as far as booking goes, except they have the decency to acknowledge she's a heel.

Agreed with both of these points.  The way they've been hot potatoing the title back and forth since the brand split has made the changes mean less and less even if the matches are good.  The face tapping with seconds left goes against wrestling booking 101, especially considering Sasha was on top.  Charlotte getting a flash pin right before time ran out to tie it up, I can buy that.  There's no way I could believe that someone had to tap when they knew they only had to last a few more seconds to win and retain the belt, and yet be ok to restart the match moments later.

We should be getting a face Bayley vs heel Sasha feud for the belt culminating at them having another 2/3 falls match at Mania with Charlotte being used to help get one of the up and coming women over.

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Really liked Sasha Banks vs. Charlotte VI. I had issues with the finish in normal time: how long Sasha was in the Figure 4, Charlotte not briding into the 8 sooner and Banks tapping with a few seconds left to go. I have it fourth out of the Banks vs. Charlotte matches this year, the no DQ/no countout/falls count anywhere match is defintely the best one.

In agreement with those wishing it was heel Sasha Banks vs. Bayley instead of Charlotte vs. Bayley as the next WWE RAW Women's Championship program.

Great finish to New Day vs. Cesaro/Sheamus. That's one of my favourite moments in 2016.

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Go back and watch Bayley/Sasha Ironman. The end of Sasha/Charlotte is borrowed from that. Really great call-back. One of the punderlying things in the Charlotte/Sasha feud is that Charlotte cannot deal with The Banks Statement. She taps out of it constantly,including in the pretty iconic one through the railing at the Last Man Standing classic. But Sasha can't deal with late-game submission holds in Ironman matches. Bayley tapped her out without even having a submission finisher in Orlando by stomping on her feet. Charlotte had a great late-match gameplan and chopped the hell out of her knee before being able to bridge back. Sasha couldn't hold on. She tried,valiantly, but she can't crack the last minute Ironman code.

Charlotte is awesome. She has been for a really long time. She's an athletic wunderkind -- moonsault off the friggin' announce table (!) -- and also is an amazing heel. She gets genuine heat from the audience. What other heel actually gets booed from the WWE audience in 2016. The Miz? That's probably it. Please stop saying she's not an ace or anything like that. Anyone saying that really isn't watching these matches at all.

This feud ruled. So friggin' much. I have no idea what people are talking about. They had probably the five best women's matches in WWE history (not counting NXT). They put the title in an epic position. People who say Alexa/Becky is a better feud are just arguing that with no real meat. I love Alexa's character work so much and have since the start. And Becky's great. But their matches haven't been so great and Alexa's big win came via a fluke table spot. How is that elevating anything?

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On 12/21/2016 at 0:43 AM, Charlie M. said:

What's wrong with protecting someone? Is it just because it's not the person you want in the role? Charlotte being dominant in the big events leading to her losing at the biggest event of them all is a fine storyline.

Her and Sasha had a bunch of good to great matches that elevated the title to something that headlined RAW and did a great number. They easily could have headlined Roadblock over Owens and Reigns and it wouldn't have been out of place. How does that happen if everything is so poorly done?

They also headlined HITC and a bunch of Raw's. This was an epic, all-time great feud. Best women's feud ever.

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6 minutes ago, Greggulator said:

Go back and watch Bayley/Sasha Ironman. The end of Sasha/Charlotte is borrowed from that. Really great call-back.

That is a very un-nuanced view of the two finishes. For starters, depending on how much stock you want to put in Meltzer's reporting of the finish, your read could be entirely wrong and it was just the whims of a madman who was not likely be studying film to craft the perfect finish. Even ignoring that though, there are still some major problems with this reading. One, the face/heel dynamic makes it entirely different. An arrogant heel tapping in the last seconds of a countdown vs. a fighting spirit babyface doing the same thing is night and day. To ignore that aspect is just silly. Second, there's a big difference between staring at the clock knowing you have just a few seconds left and still tapping vs. having your face buried in the mat getting the back of your head stomped and having no awareness of the clock. The Bayley finish had great attention to detail and made perfect sense, the Charlotte finish was ham-fisted and got a wtf reaction from most people watching.

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Charlotte has the same thing that Moose has. Where one minute she looks like a super coordinated super athlete who can do anything physical, and the next minute like a big lump of clumsy that can't even throw a proper chop or clothesline or anything.

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