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DECEMBER 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION... for now

RIPPA

By RIPPA
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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GuerrillaMonsoon

GuerrillaMonsoon

Posted
Posted
42 minutes ago, kafkonia said:

 

It's ridiculous in any day and age as you're not just telling the fans who to cheer for, you're trying to threaten them into doing it. I'm not going to suddenly cheer for the guy I don't like. I'm either going to cheer for the guy I want to win, and be happy that he wins quickly, or I'm going to feel cheated and go elsewhere.

That already happens though in terms of threatening them into doing it (see: every burial of guys who were being cheered that shouldn't have been). 

You're just adding an element of appealing to their own self-interest (and to some extent, adding extra heat onto tired babyface comeback spots). If people didn't want to see Reigns/Cena/Ambrose et al *that much* they wouldn't be at the show in the first place. I just want to watch the world burn as a result of a main event ending in 2 minutes with a 3 arm drops on a rest hold finish.

 

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jstout

jstout

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, kafkonia said:

 

It's ridiculous in any day and age as you're not just telling the fans who to cheer for, you're trying to threaten them into doing it. I'm not going to suddenly cheer for the guy I don't like. I'm either going to cheer for the guy I want to win, and be happy that he wins quickly, or I'm going to feel cheated and go elsewhere.

Plus you're giving the fans control of the booking of every match. If they don't like the face for whatever reason, then they don't cheer him, then he doesn't win. The fans are gonna like and cheer for whoever they want to cheer for.

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Dewar

Dewar

Posted
Posted

WWE fucked up big time when in back-to-back Wrestlemanias, they caved in to public outcry and 1) shoehorned Daniel Bryan into the main event and 2) chickened out on putting Roman Reigns over Lesnar. Now the fanbase thinks their complaining will lead to the company changing their long-term booking plans to appease them, which used to be the biggest strength of the company.

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Sammo~!

Sammo~!

Posted
Posted

So in this hypothetical world where the cheers of adoring fans powers up babyfaces, we can assume that boos empower heels. Extrapolating from there, we can surmise that cheers are damaging to heels, in which case I imagine that the desiccated husks of The Bullet Club are slowly blowing away into dust at an ROH show while the crowd chants "You still got it!" at them.

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Cristobal

Cristobal

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Dewar said:

WWE fucked up big time when in back-to-back Wrestlemanias, they caved in to public outcry and 1) shoehorned Daniel Bryan into the main event and 2) chickened out on putting Roman Reigns over Lesnar. Now the fanbase thinks their complaining will lead to the company changing their long-term booking plans to appease them, which used to be the biggest strength of the company.

Yes, they absolutely should have taken a firm stance against giving the fans what they wanted at the same time as they were trying to launch the Network 

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GuerrillaMonsoon

GuerrillaMonsoon

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cristobal said:

Put simply: If I'm your smarky Indy/Japan mark who hates Roman Reigns, threatening me with him jobbing to Kevin Owens if I don't cheer hard enough for Reigns will not achieve the stated goal of getting Reigns over more. 

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

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AxB

AxB

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Sammo~! said:

So in this hypothetical world where the cheers of adoring fans powers up babyfaces, we can assume that boos empower heels. Extrapolating from there, we can surmise that cheers are damaging to heels, in which case I imagine that the desiccated husks of The Bullet Club are slowly blowing away into dust at an ROH show while the crowd chants "You still got it!" at them.

I wish crowds would start chanting the inverse of proper chants when it was warranted. Y'know, "This is Awful" or "You never had it", stuff like that. Whenever Jack Gallagher puts a hold on, the crowd should start chanting "Interesting".

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Phantom Lord

Phantom Lord

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, AxB said:

I wish crowds would start chanting the inverse of proper chants when it was warranted. Y'know, "This is Awful" or "You never had it", stuff like that. Whenever Jack Gallagher puts a hold on, the crowd should start chanting "Interesting".

I swear when Davari hit Jack Gallagher with the table during the duel, the crowd started chanting "BAD FORM...BAD FORM" like they were all Dustin Hoffman in Hook. Of course I am going deaf and I could have just been hearing what I wanted to hear.

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mattdangerously

mattdangerously

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

They're having a hard enough time drawing crowds these days without actively trying to kill towns.

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Jenalysis

Jenalysis

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

Folks still wouldn't care.  They shoot 205 Live afterwards so folks if they didn't want to leave would stay for that.

Plus you end the show early USA would be upset.   It won't work.

 

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Victator

Victator

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

And when they don't come back? You would kill your house show business. 

People in entertainment have this idea that people keep coming back. You hear "They complain but keep watching." as numbers slowly dwindle. 

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joseph2112

joseph2112

Posted
Posted

I find it interesting that the notion is that people boo and cheer the wrong people just for the sole purpose to fuck with the WWE. I get it, it is a lot harder to draw reactions then it was in the 80's because of the Internet and all of that. But to me, the best way to fix it is to write modern stories with modern characters that people connect with. Not the current shit that they put on week after week. Go back and watch the Vince/Stone Cold interview, there is the problem.

Also, the point of wrestling is to sell tickets, merch and network subscriptions, not get people to cheer or boo the "right" people. The worst sound is the sound of silence, be it from a fan or an empty seat, 

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Burgundy LaRue

Burgundy LaRue

Posted
Posted
6 hours ago, Cristobal said:

Yes, they absolutely should have taken a firm stance against giving the fans what they wanted at the same time as they were trying to launch the Network 

There are ways to give fans a desired result without losing your position of strength.  That is where WWE went wrong.  They had the high ground but gave it away.  And in the end, many fans still aren't happy with the product, for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons.

It goes back to Roland's original post: WWE took the short-term win, but sacrificed long-term strategy.

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Victator

Victator

Posted
Posted

the issue with Bryan is it did end up being wrong. His neck was wrecked and they had to suspect it. Most fans don't care if Bryan had his head on a slinky but just from a business stand point WWE should have cared. 

That is the issue with going along with the whims of the live audience. They don't and shouldn't care about the business concerns of WWE. In the end, Reigns is popular with most WWE fans who buy merch and attend live events. But the loud mouths are well louder and people mistake that for being a majority.

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Jenalysis

Jenalysis

Posted
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Would you guys be saying this if the Network had even fewer subscribers because enough fans said we don't need WWE because the booking is that bad?

Bryan probably sold network subs- though who knows how many stayed, and we also don't know if business would be any worse if WWE depushed Roman.

 

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Burgundy LaRue

Burgundy LaRue

Posted
Posted

The WWE brand sells the subs.  People want to watch old shows and new PPVs for a song.  I sure didn't subscribe for any one wrestler.  I imagine many of us realized it was a great value, and signed up. $120 per year pays for WM and Summer Slam alone.  Everything else is gravy.

I know a major point is that as a face, Reigns gets the wrong response.  But in a company where 85% of the roster comes out to murmurs and crickets, those who can elicit strong fan reactions in any direction are valuable. Hell, for all the talk of not wanting him to be the next Cena, Chicago sure didn't act that way.  He got the patented "Let's go! You suck!" response. They made it 100% about him, the guy they claim to hate.

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Cristobal

Cristobal

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

There are ways to give fans a desired result without losing your position of strength.  That is where WWE went wrong.  They had the high ground but gave it away.

What kind of Art of the Deal bullshit is this? The fans are WWE's CUSTOMERS. They are, directly and indirectly, responsible for 99 cents out of every dollar of revenue that WWE gets. It's not supposed to be an adversarial relationship. 

Where did people get the bizarre notion that the first time a wrestling promotion changed the booking because of fan reactions was in 2014?

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Omega

Omega

Posted
Posted
Quote

The wrestlers from the U.K. who just signed WWE contracts for the tournament on 1/14 and 1/15 in Blackpool, England, live on the WWE Network, signed one-year deals for 16,000 pounds or roughly $20,000 U.S. Several of the wrestlers that were signed told Wrestle Culture Pro Wrestling that they had been told they could no longer work for the promotion after 1/15. When William Regal came to the U.K., he specifically talked about no restrictions on where the talent could work, but we knew that the contracts specified the obvious like TNA or ROH, and there was no way the guys would be able to work for the ITV group, since, even though WWE says the opposite publicly, the key to this thing being done was an attempt to stop the ITV group. Wrestle Culture doesn’t have regular television. They have television tapings for an Internet show and have spent huge money for people like Kurt Angle, Jim Ross, Alberto El Patron and others. The promotions that Paul Levesque talked about when he was there that they would work with included Progress and Revolution Pro, and they sent Finn Balor to ICW and OTT, so there is a relationship there as well.'

So this would be Joseph Conners, Pete Dunne, Trent Seven and Tyler Bate.

 

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Burgundy LaRue

Burgundy LaRue

Posted
Posted

@CristobalI ought to find your house and kick your ass for even remotely aligning me with Trump.   Then again, we'll both likely be homeless after Trump gets done with all of us, so I'll meet you under a bridge in Hobo Park, piss-filled pickle jars in hand and ready for battle.

There are ways of changing the booking without losing ground.  That's what happened here.

 

 

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Cristobal

Cristobal

Posted
Posted

I'll cool it on the cheeto references since I'm not trying to get this locked, but the point remains, this "us versus the fans" mentality is held over carny BS that needs to die a fiery death.

The whole point of storylines are to keep us engaged and wanting to see what happens next. You can make a case for the 31 finish, but Batista/Orton MEing 30 after the end of the Streak would've been another Royal Rumble night of everyone booing, and not booing the heel, booing the booking. 

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