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DECEMBER 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION... for now


RIPPA
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1 hour ago, Victator said:

GLOW with good wrestling would be great. The first commie lady was a better athlete than any woman on the current roster. 

I have hope for the remake to be but not in a wrestling way. We shall see I guess.

3 hours ago, joseph2112 said:

Then I reference GWF, Resistance Pro and that Indy from NY I can't remember as reasons men's wrestling can't get over. I mean, come on man. 

AWA, WCW, WWWF, WWE, NJPW, AAA, and everyone else who had a lot of "large" success in wrestling did it primarily with a male talent base. Most female wrestling has failed to maintain itself because the audience to see such things, simply doesn't seem to be there. Joshi was a cultural phenom that had a 20-year heyday run the way I understand it. Something tells me the WWE can't tap into something like that because of how the world works nowadays. They are of course capable of lucking into it and blowing it like usual *coughBayleycough*. Their female wrestlers are also nowhere near as talented so that doesn't help. Now because the world works different, places like Shimmer can find a larger audience, but if some network executive thought it would draw big ratings, it would have been on some stream by now don't you think. In a world of significantly better-written television, and options galore, what sized audience do you think is clamoring for pointless female on female violence over a prop like a woman's title that has at times, been passed around like a hot potato, or stored away in a closet and forgotten?

Shimmer, Wrestleicious, GLOW, WOW, and who knows who else, have all had a shot, and none of them really broke out. The WWE couldn't turn Bailey into PG Austin type gold on RAW, but somehow Sasha and Charlotte are going to spearhead that.....I mean good luck, but that just doesn't jive with me.

Personally, I think Bolivian Fighting Cholitas would work because it's just so different, but that's me.

 

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5 hours ago, zev said:

Didn't GLOW just cease operations because the main "money mark" bail on it because his wife Pia Zadora didn't want him around the ladies on the roster?

 

 

Something like that. So, who knows what GLOW could have eventually become. 

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7 hours ago, RIPPA said:

So yeah - it seems like one of the first thing people do when they get the Network is watch Mania

When I did the free month I did find myself checking out (on fast forward) a bunch of recent Manias I'd not bothered to get. Then I settled into nothing but classic WCW and WWF stuff as that was my main interest. I did dig what bit of NXT I watched but I had to put that shit on mute

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14 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

I think I'm starting to see the big picture vision that the WWE is shooting for.

A truly global sports entertainment company. WWE branches worldwide.

UK/Europe, India, Australia/New Zealand, China. 

 

About 10 years ago I assumed that's what they were going for. Kind of a NWA type model - so you'd have WWE UK, WWE Europe, WWE USA etc etc but it never came to pass. I asssume it would cost a ton of coin to get that whole infrastructure up and running

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Watching 99 Nitro, I decided that overall (in ring, promos and charisma) Ric Flair was the best wrestler in this country.. It was clear WCW was intent on sabotaging him but they could not kill him off. It seems like they tried to get to him thru David. David Flair has this negative charisma that is fascinating. If you want an idea of why WCW was losing, they spent an hour of TV showing Kevin Nash trying to get David Flair laid. Meanwhile on Raw, Undertaker is crucifying dudes. 

Thru February 99, they would continually have the nWo beat Flair down. I think to try to kill him off as a face but it failed and he was still super over. So then they start turning him heel. Which was probably on Flair, since he has said he preferred being a heel. But fans took to booing him as naturally as they cheered him. I can't think of another wrestler who could do that. I remember Austin murdering old ladies in 01 and not getting traction. 

So they take the belt off of him for no good reason. Then we get the mental hospital and I defy you to find anyone else who could make that work. Meanwhile Flair is having a run of good TV matches. Nothing like his peak, more eye pokes and nut shots. But good Crash TV matches.

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14 hours ago, John Austin said:

That makes sense but has anyone suggested just taping the house shows with maybe a simple set up? No big set pieces just what they'd do for a house show? I'd think it wouldn't cost THAT much, but I don't know

 

13 hours ago, Victator said:

See I don't see why they just don't do fancams like ECW did. Surely one camera at a house show is not expensive. They already do the mini tron and stage.

A simple setup, with no pyro and ballyhoo, goes against their #brand.  Vince and KD are showmen, god dammit.

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10 hours ago, Victator said:

It is but the company goes out of their way to say its not real. I think that type of heat is amateur hour. Great heels don't need to randomly insult fans. They do it with actions.

a) You can do both.

b) In 15 seconds, he's made a kid hate him for years. 

If turning someone in seconds by insulting them isn't something a heel should be doing, then I don't even know if we're watching the same thing.

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6 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

About 10 years ago I assumed that's what they were going for. Kind of a NWA type model - so you'd have WWE UK, WWE Europe, WWE USA etc etc but it never came to pass. I asssume it would cost a ton of coin to get that whole infrastructure up and running

About 5 years ago, WWE was specifically looking into doing that,

 

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In regards to Hero - Meltzer said on last night's radio show that Hero is "in the process of going to the WWE"

So technically things can fall through but everyone is proceeding as if he is going.

He has already done his medicals so unless something new suddenly pops up - that hurdle is already clear

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1 hour ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

a) You can do both.

b) In 15 seconds, he's made a kid hate him for years. 

If turning someone in seconds by insulting them isn't something a heel should be doing, then I don't even know if we're watching the same thing.

Seriously.  Wrestling needs more heels that aren't afraid to be heels.  

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Kevin Owens is definitely "through the looking glass" where heeling is concerned.

At some point, we went from heels = being booed because they were villains, to heels = being cheered because fans were "smart", being cheered because the heels were acting cooler than the faces, being cheered because fans were acting contrary to what was being done, to airquote heels = faces being booed for doing hero stuff, being too "super", being shoved in the fans face, to heels = guys who come off like they actually hate the fans (which may or mat not be reacted to by fans congruent to what is being done).

It's a strange art, this "wrestling".

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4 hours ago, Matt D said:

 

Even as a kid, I had a hard time suspending disbelief and accepting that Mr. Fuji would split the Powers of Pain because he also had the Orient Express. The Orient Express became job guys in no time. In fact, the only time I remember them getting a major win was over The Rockers at WM6, by countout.

Mr. Fuji was portrayed as being very smart, but his moves suggested otherwise. He dumps the tag team champions for what he thinks is a superior team, then fails to win the titles with the Powers of Pain. Then, he splits the PoP in favor of the Orient Express. So, the PoP couldn't win the titles, but the Orient Express will? Then, he rejoins Demolition after they drop the tag titles and are on the decline, while also still managing the Orient Express, who are firmly cemented as jobbers by this point.

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1 hour ago, nate said:

Kevin Owens is definitely "through the looking glass" where heeling is concerned.

I like that Owens is finally showing ass. He was this unflappable shit-talker for so long, and now he seems genuinely worried that his right-hand man, someone he's apparently been using and thought would never get hip to that fact, is about to leave him. I'm not saying he should have shown ass earlier, just the opposite -- being strong up until now makes this feel more important. If only that could be attributed to long-term planning, and not booking falling backward into it after a simple list got amazingly over.

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43 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Even as a kid, I had a hard time suspending disbelief and accepting that Mr. Fuji would split the Powers of Pain because he also had the Orient Express. The Orient Express became job guys in no time. In fact, the only time I remember them getting a major win was over The Rockers at WM6, by countout.

Mr. Fuji was portrayed as being very smart, but his moves suggested otherwise. He dumps the tag team champions for what he thinks is a superior team, then fails to win the titles with the Powers of Pain. Then, he splits the PoP in favor of the Orient Express. So, the PoP couldn't win the titles, but the Orient Express will? Then, he rejoins Demolition after they drop the tag titles and are on the decline, while also still managing the Orient Express, who are firmly cemented as jobbers by this point.

I'd always rationalized in my head that Fuji used the money from this to bring in the Orient Express, really as sort of a mid-life crisis where he'd toss aside his monsters to people who he could see himself in (but younger). Here, though, he has them first.

Also, while we're doing this:

 

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It's going to be a lot of people unfamiliar with him going "A wrestler?  Running for mayor?!"  Yet knowing about the struggles he went through and where he's at today he'd make for one helluva mayor.  He made a great case in that statement, and add to it he's always giving back to Houston I can't see why he wouldn't do well.  And he's definitely not Lawler by any means, unlike him I'd trust he knows what he's getting into.  Lawler seemed to run just for name value.

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