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DECEMBER 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION... for now


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1 hour ago, The Green Meanie said:

^ What about Cody Rhodes?

I don't know if he really belongs in that topic. He has less visibility now than he did even at the very forgettable tail end of his Stardust run. He seems happier and his work is more inspired, which is great, but he isn't getting anywhere near the buzz of the other three.

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Hypothetical for you.

If the WWE started incorporating the idea into their psychology that without the fans cheering the #1 babyface all the way and with as much enthusiasm as possible, he lacks the necessary fighting spirit to put up a worthwhile showing against the heel that's otherwise being cheered, and the match ends super early, with the finish being built around the crowd's inability to rally the babyface to come back. 

Seems a logical if not exaggerated extension of their constant references to the WWE Universe, and a way to curb smart fans booing Roman Reigns out the building if they know they're going to get tremendously short changed on their ticket if the main event goes < 5 minutes.

Ridiculous in this day and age?

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1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

Hypothetical for you.

If the WWE started incorporating the idea into their psychology that without the fans cheering the #1 babyface all the way and with as much enthusiasm as possible, he lacks the necessary fighting spirit to put up a worthwhile showing against the heel that's otherwise being cheered, and the match ends super early, with the finish being built around the crowd's inability to rally the babyface to come back. 

Seems a logical if not exaggerated extension of their constant references to the WWE Universe, and a way to curb smart fans booing Roman Reigns out the building if they know they're going to get tremendously short changed on their ticket if the main event goes < 5 minutes.

Ridiculous in this day and age?

 

It's ridiculous in any day and age as you're not just telling the fans who to cheer for, you're trying to threaten them into doing it. I'm not going to suddenly cheer for the guy I don't like. I'm either going to cheer for the guy I want to win, and be happy that he wins quickly, or I'm going to feel cheated and go elsewhere.

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15 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

How is Sandy Duncan looking these days ? Are we going to be able to get her into a Peter Pan costume so she can tell the WWE Universe to "clap if you believe"?

That needs to be Bo-lieved asap.

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2 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Hypothetical for you.

If the WWE started incorporating the idea into their psychology that without the fans cheering the #1 babyface all the way and with as much enthusiasm as possible, he lacks the necessary fighting spirit to put up a worthwhile showing against the heel that's otherwise being cheered, and the match ends super early, with the finish being built around the crowd's inability to rally the babyface to come back. 

Seems a logical if not exaggerated extension of their constant references to the WWE Universe, and a way to curb smart fans booing Roman Reigns out the building if they know they're going to get tremendously short changed on their ticket if the main event goes < 5 minutes.

Ridiculous in this day and age?

In short--no, I don't think so.

But I'm not sure of how to approach giving a fair response to what you've asked.  It's a FANTASTIC question, the best one I've seen on the board in quite some time. It's food for thought.

I'm going to come back to this, because it's a great discussion point.

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42 minutes ago, kafkonia said:

 

It's ridiculous in any day and age as you're not just telling the fans who to cheer for, you're trying to threaten them into doing it. I'm not going to suddenly cheer for the guy I don't like. I'm either going to cheer for the guy I want to win, and be happy that he wins quickly, or I'm going to feel cheated and go elsewhere.

That already happens though in terms of threatening them into doing it (see: every burial of guys who were being cheered that shouldn't have been). 

You're just adding an element of appealing to their own self-interest (and to some extent, adding extra heat onto tired babyface comeback spots). If people didn't want to see Reigns/Cena/Ambrose et al *that much* they wouldn't be at the show in the first place. I just want to watch the world burn as a result of a main event ending in 2 minutes with a 3 arm drops on a rest hold finish.

 

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58 minutes ago, kafkonia said:

 

It's ridiculous in any day and age as you're not just telling the fans who to cheer for, you're trying to threaten them into doing it. I'm not going to suddenly cheer for the guy I don't like. I'm either going to cheer for the guy I want to win, and be happy that he wins quickly, or I'm going to feel cheated and go elsewhere.

Plus you're giving the fans control of the booking of every match. If they don't like the face for whatever reason, then they don't cheer him, then he doesn't win. The fans are gonna like and cheer for whoever they want to cheer for.

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WWE fucked up big time when in back-to-back Wrestlemanias, they caved in to public outcry and 1) shoehorned Daniel Bryan into the main event and 2) chickened out on putting Roman Reigns over Lesnar. Now the fanbase thinks their complaining will lead to the company changing their long-term booking plans to appease them, which used to be the biggest strength of the company.

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So in this hypothetical world where the cheers of adoring fans powers up babyfaces, we can assume that boos empower heels. Extrapolating from there, we can surmise that cheers are damaging to heels, in which case I imagine that the desiccated husks of The Bullet Club are slowly blowing away into dust at an ROH show while the crowd chants "You still got it!" at them.

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2 hours ago, Dewar said:

WWE fucked up big time when in back-to-back Wrestlemanias, they caved in to public outcry and 1) shoehorned Daniel Bryan into the main event and 2) chickened out on putting Roman Reigns over Lesnar. Now the fanbase thinks their complaining will lead to the company changing their long-term booking plans to appease them, which used to be the biggest strength of the company.

Yes, they absolutely should have taken a firm stance against giving the fans what they wanted at the same time as they were trying to launch the Network 

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1 hour ago, Cristobal said:

Put simply: If I'm your smarky Indy/Japan mark who hates Roman Reigns, threatening me with him jobbing to Kevin Owens if I don't cheer hard enough for Reigns will not achieve the stated goal of getting Reigns over more. 

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

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5 hours ago, Sammo~! said:

So in this hypothetical world where the cheers of adoring fans powers up babyfaces, we can assume that boos empower heels. Extrapolating from there, we can surmise that cheers are damaging to heels, in which case I imagine that the desiccated husks of The Bullet Club are slowly blowing away into dust at an ROH show while the crowd chants "You still got it!" at them.

I wish crowds would start chanting the inverse of proper chants when it was warranted. Y'know, "This is Awful" or "You never had it", stuff like that. Whenever Jack Gallagher puts a hold on, the crowd should start chanting "Interesting".

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1 hour ago, AxB said:

I wish crowds would start chanting the inverse of proper chants when it was warranted. Y'know, "This is Awful" or "You never had it", stuff like that. Whenever Jack Gallagher puts a hold on, the crowd should start chanting "Interesting".

I swear when Davari hit Jack Gallagher with the table during the duel, the crowd started chanting "BAD FORM...BAD FORM" like they were all Dustin Hoffman in Hook. Of course I am going deaf and I could have just been hearing what I wanted to hear.

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4 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

They're having a hard enough time drawing crowds these days without actively trying to kill towns.

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4 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

Folks still wouldn't care.  They shoot 205 Live afterwards so folks if they didn't want to leave would stay for that.

Plus you end the show early USA would be upset.   It won't work.

 

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4 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

OK, same Pavlovian concept, just change the finish to something else. Fuck finish....heel gets DQ'd for a low blow or not breaking the ropes 2 minutes in. Whatever it may be, no point getting too concerned with the minor detail. You boo the wrong guy, fuck you and your cost of admission, enjoy the early finish to the show.

And when they don't come back? You would kill your house show business. 

People in entertainment have this idea that people keep coming back. You hear "They complain but keep watching." as numbers slowly dwindle. 

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I find it interesting that the notion is that people boo and cheer the wrong people just for the sole purpose to fuck with the WWE. I get it, it is a lot harder to draw reactions then it was in the 80's because of the Internet and all of that. But to me, the best way to fix it is to write modern stories with modern characters that people connect with. Not the current shit that they put on week after week. Go back and watch the Vince/Stone Cold interview, there is the problem.

Also, the point of wrestling is to sell tickets, merch and network subscriptions, not get people to cheer or boo the "right" people. The worst sound is the sound of silence, be it from a fan or an empty seat, 

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