DECEMBER 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION... for now

[Casey]

if it's WWE sponsored, no way it's liberal.

[NikoBaltimore]

On 12/24/2016 at 2:37 PM, Godfrey said:

So who had the best reinvention this year: Chris Jericho, Matt Hardy, or the Miz? Hardy is the obvious choice, but both Miz and Jericho went from guys I couldn't stand to my favourite parts of their respective shows. Anybody else in contention? 

Jericho got simple things like a list and a scarf over.  He's become highly entertaining and it's funny seeing him with Owens.  I think it's hurting Owens though because he's doing more comedy and less killer prizefighter.

Miz has stepped it up in a huge way, and with an open platform on SDL he turned in one of the most memorable promos of the year.  I absolutely love him and Maryse and look forward to what they do weekly.  Plus it's cool to see a guy so damn driven from the start finally get appreciated for what's he's done recently.

But Matt Hardy?  I'll put it like this.  I met him twice, last time being soon after finishing ROH when he was sober and clear-headed.  We had a great conversation about where his head was at then and how it is now and he seems like a genuinely nice guy.  Since then I saw him and Jeff at local shows before, and while it was cool seeing them I never once felt compelled to get an autograph or picture with them.  But now?  Well, they're coming to MCW next month and I'm my wife and I are so damn tempted to pay $100 for a picture with the whole Hardy crew.  TNA is kind of trying to get some money in Hardy merch, but it's Matt and Jeff who are raking in money hand over fist.  And unless TNA gets a cut of that I guarantee next month they'll make a killing on autographs/pictures alone.  If he does that at other indie shows then hot damn he's got it made.  But as far as reinventions go Matt's head and shoulders above the rest.

[Matt D]

13 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Jericho got simple things like a list and a scarf over.  He's become highly entertaining and it's funny seeing him with Owens.  I think it's hurting Owens though because he's doing more comedy and less killer prizefighter.

In theory, you're right but I just don't think they would have portrayed him strong enough with or without this.

[Ace]

On 12/25/2016 at 8:52 AM, SorceressKnight said:

But if you're going with the "Matt Hardy made people want TNA to stay in business and watch Impact", wouldn't that be equalled out with: WWE tried what seemed to be one of the stupidest concepts possible for a WWE Network show in "adding a Talking Dead-esque recap show to Smackdown", a year after the Network failed miserably by adding a Talking Dead-esque recap show for Tough Enough...and The Miz basically singlehandedly turned it into one of the most must-see shows on the Network each week?

To be fair, Miz was excellent on the TE show last year until Hogan shit the bed and he had to replace him. Jericho was a poor substitute.

 

[DTTW]

1 hour ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Jericho got simple things like a list and a scarf over.  He's become highly entertaining and it's funny seeing him with Owens.  I think it's hurting Owens though because he's doing more comedy and less killer prizefighter.

Miz has stepped it up in a huge way, and with an open platform on SDL he turned in one of the most memorable promos of the year.  I absolutely love him and Maryse and look forward to what they do weekly.  Plus it's cool to see a guy so damn driven from the start finally get appreciated for what's he's done recently.

But Matt Hardy?  I'll put it like this.  I met him twice, last time being soon after finishing ROH when he was sober and clear-headed.  We had a great conversation about where his head was at then and how it is now and he seems like a genuinely nice guy.  Since then I saw him and Jeff at local shows before, and while it was cool seeing them I never once felt compelled to get an autograph or picture with them.  But now?  Well, they're coming to MCW next month and I'm my wife and I are so damn tempted to pay $100 for a picture with the whole Hardy crew.  TNA is kind of trying to get some money in Hardy merch, but it's Matt and Jeff who are raking in money hand over fist.  And unless TNA gets a cut of that I guarantee next month they'll make a killing on autographs/pictures alone.  If he does that at other indie shows then hot damn he's got it made.  But as far as reinventions go Matt's head and shoulders above the rest.

I freely admit to pegging Matt as the next Marty a decade ago. The dude has raisen to be bigger than the brand he's on. That is amazing. It's a mini-Austin phenomenon, but who in the world would have thunk Matt Hardy of all people could do that.

He desperately needs a better platform or something to get what he's doing to be seen by more people.

[Sky Blue Sam]

Last month Matt Hardy appeared for WCPW in Nottingham, and immediately my friends (who are semi-casual, but definitely don't watch TNA) wanted me to buy tickets for us to go, purely because they loved all the Broken stuff they'd watched on YouTube. One of them said to me "If this was the old Matt Hardy, I wouldn't have cared, but I'm really interested in this new mental Matt". 

[RRR]

Miz owes this year to the brand split. 

[DTTW]

So the way I'm following the Hardy thing is that it is viral, but people aren't watching TNA. What exactly does that mean? 

[piranesi]

It means Matt is going to need a bigger [dilapidated] boat. 

[NikoBaltimore]

1 hour ago, DTTW said:

So the way I'm following the Hardy thing is that it is viral, but people aren't watching TNA. What exactly does that mean? 

I take it as if the show was DVRed people only watched the Hardy segments, but couldn't care less about the non-Hardy stuff.  Also doesn't help that you could easily find everything Hardy in a Youtube video with all the segments which takes out the need to watch the show.  Which is too bad as there's some quality stuff going on that people are sleeping on.

[Go2Sleep]

Matt Hardy is hands down the best career revival this year, and possibly this century. He's making people actively search for TNA segments in 2016 for god's sake. It also has the bonus of reviving Jeff's career as well, which he deserves since Jeff wrecking his body is what got the Hardys on the map to begin with.

Jericho's revival is impressive, but he didn't build a new gimmick from the ground up like Matt. He's mainly adapting his 98/99 heel act to a second banana role and it's perfect at this stage of his career. Still a big deal considering how washed up he's looked since 2012, but I have to give Matt the slight edge.

Miz's pretty much doing the same thing he did when he won MITB just lower on the card. That's fine since he's a perfect midcard heel, but it's not really a surprising or compelling renaissance compared to the other two.

[The Green Meanie]

^ What about Cody Rhodes?

[RIPPA]

 

[Web Conn]

I like Jericho's run right now but he's been around for a year and after the Owens match he should go. But I do think they should make Talk is Jericho a weekly talk show. Have Jericho host a talk show in front of a studio audience, do a monologue, remote segment, and he can interview WWE superstars, get angels over and just have goody segments for an hour once a week.

[Spritenaut 32]

9 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Miz has stepped it up in a huge way, and with an open platform on SDL he turned in one of the most memorable promos of the year.  I absolutely love him and Maryse and look forward to what they do weekly.  Plus it's cool to see a guy so damn driven from the start finally get appreciated for what's he's done recently.

This is what I was getting at a page or two back when I joked that Miz re-invented himself by doing the same thing he's always done.  I think Miz is having the best year of his career (by a wide margin) and the only act I enjoy right more is AJ.  I don't think Miz has re-invented himself.  He was treading water until the brand split.  Smackdown's given him plenty of tv time and two forums which play to his strengths.  Basically, he's being well booked at the moment and making the most of that.  But he's playing the same character with the same attitude and basically the same in-ring style.  Only thing he's added is Maryse.  Compare that to Matt Hardy, who basically changed almost everything about his character, or Jericho, who's gone back to his WCW character but turned the dial from "egomaniacal wrestler" to "egomaniacal rock star" (which is basically turning a dial meant to go to 10 up to 11 or 12).

I will say that between the on-screen character and his podcast, where he comes across as a mildly insecure guy having a mid-life crisis, Jericho may be the most entertaining personality in wrestling right now.

[Matt D]

4 hours ago, DTTW said:

So the way I'm following the Hardy thing is that it is viral, but people aren't watching TNA. What exactly does that mean? 

I watch it on YouTube.

[Go2Sleep]

1 hour ago, The Green Meanie said:

^ What about Cody Rhodes?

I don't know if he really belongs in that topic. He has less visibility now than he did even at the very forgettable tail end of his Stardust run. He seems happier and his work is more inspired, which is great, but he isn't getting anywhere near the buzz of the other three.

[turk128]

This is so nifty...

 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Hypothetical for you.

If the WWE started incorporating the idea into their psychology that without the fans cheering the #1 babyface all the way and with as much enthusiasm as possible, he lacks the necessary fighting spirit to put up a worthwhile showing against the heel that's otherwise being cheered, and the match ends super early, with the finish being built around the crowd's inability to rally the babyface to come back. 

Seems a logical if not exaggerated extension of their constant references to the WWE Universe, and a way to curb smart fans booing Roman Reigns out the building if they know they're going to get tremendously short changed on their ticket if the main event goes < 5 minutes.

Ridiculous in this day and age?

[Wyld Samurai]

I think most fans would prefer the main events to go 5-10 minutes after a 3-4 hour show.

[kafkonia]

1 hour ago, RolandTHTG said:

Hypothetical for you.

If the WWE started incorporating the idea into their psychology that without the fans cheering the #1 babyface all the way and with as much enthusiasm as possible, he lacks the necessary fighting spirit to put up a worthwhile showing against the heel that's otherwise being cheered, and the match ends super early, with the finish being built around the crowd's inability to rally the babyface to come back. 

Seems a logical if not exaggerated extension of their constant references to the WWE Universe, and a way to curb smart fans booing Roman Reigns out the building if they know they're going to get tremendously short changed on their ticket if the main event goes < 5 minutes.

Ridiculous in this day and age?

 

It's ridiculous in any day and age as you're not just telling the fans who to cheer for, you're trying to threaten them into doing it. I'm not going to suddenly cheer for the guy I don't like. I'm either going to cheer for the guy I want to win, and be happy that he wins quickly, or I'm going to feel cheated and go elsewhere.

[mattdangerously]

How is Sandy Duncan looking these days ? Are we going to be able to get her into a Peter Pan costume so she can tell the WWE Universe to "clap if you believe"?

[DTTW]

Never mind.

[DTTW]

15 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

How is Sandy Duncan looking these days ? Are we going to be able to get her into a Peter Pan costume so she can tell the WWE Universe to "clap if you believe"?

That needs to be Bo-lieved asap.

[Burgundy LaRue]

2 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:

Hypothetical for you.

If the WWE started incorporating the idea into their psychology that without the fans cheering the #1 babyface all the way and with as much enthusiasm as possible, he lacks the necessary fighting spirit to put up a worthwhile showing against the heel that's otherwise being cheered, and the match ends super early, with the finish being built around the crowd's inability to rally the babyface to come back. 

Seems a logical if not exaggerated extension of their constant references to the WWE Universe, and a way to curb smart fans booing Roman Reigns out the building if they know they're going to get tremendously short changed on their ticket if the main event goes < 5 minutes.

Ridiculous in this day and age?

In short--no, I don't think so.

But I'm not sure of how to approach giving a fair response to what you've asked.  It's a FANTASTIC question, the best one I've seen on the board in quite some time. It's food for thought.

I'm going to come back to this, because it's a great discussion point.