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NJPW 1/4 WRESTLE KINGDOM 11 in TOKYO DOME


Raziel

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Just rewatched main with Japanese commentary. Jesus, anyone thinking that "nothing happened" the first 15 minutes is out to lunch. I mean, if you think the match was too long what do you cut? What section of the match dragged?  I mean, not much happened the first 3 rounds of Ward and Gatti and that turned out to be many people's pick for "greatest fight ever." Did the Red Ink knock off a star for people? 

The pace they worked out, the crispness, the selling, the insane bumps (Okada landing on his fucking neck on that dragon) was just next level. And, most importantly, the match had stakes. 

Too often it seems that matches are viewed in a vacuum divorced from time and place. It's why I have a hard time seeing match of the year as being an dream match on an independent show (like the six-man at at BOLA, which was fantastic in its own right), or just some kickass match on a PPV/iPPV that has no real impact or isn't for anything except bragging right. This was the main event of the second (or third) biggest show of the year for the second or third most prestigious title in the world. I would hope it would take 35 Rainmakers to put a challenger away. I would expect the champion to survive 40 V-triggers.

That was epic wrestling that told a story that still brought next-generation athleticism and action. 

To be fair, on first watch unspoiled I was still coming off the insanely emotional Goto match and the awesome Naito match so yeah...it took me a few minutes to get into the main event. Going back fresh, though, nothing about that match dragged at all. 

Omega is great, but anyone who discredits or dismisses Okada is no different than people like Skip Bayless who spend their time denigrating and disparaging Lebron James. It's over. Get a new gimmick. This one is tired. 

 

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The pace Okada and Omega worked at was pretty incredible. How much cardio do you have to go through to get to that point. They started off kind of slow... maybe..  for a couple minutes and yeah they had some rest between big spots but it was pretty fucking insane nearly the whole way. 

It was a much better story than I thought, I was talking to one of my buddies and I just so much prefer a match that's laid out like this over one of the 15-minute PWG epics that are hyped up.  I never felt like Omega/Okada or really anyone all night was just doing shit for the hell of it. 

I'm not the biggest NJPW fan you'll ever meet but I always have a good time with it, this was a tremendous show and the main event was really a special match,  maybe I can discuss it more tomorrow with a clear head

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1 hour ago, peterien said:

Interesting news on Omega, cant see him going to WWE though. Maybe Ibushi returns and coaxes him out of his 'time off"?

Or the WWE sends Kenny a huge bag of money so that he comes to the states and renews the feud with Nak in NXT, which would be smart because then you've have Nak working with far less of a language barrier. 

Nak's spoken English and comprehension are both great, but who wouldn't appreciate being in the ring with a guy who fluently speaks and understands your native tongue?

Personally, I also can't see Kenny spending too much time in North America.  I met the guy a long time ago and he is more Japanese than the average Japanese person.  He's right at home where he is now.

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Has Trips offered him that fuck money? He is one of the biggest stars outside of the WWE at the moment, and with all this publicity coming his way coupled with the fact the majority of the WWE roster are gushing over him, surely he's on their radar. 

On the other hand he's very much immersed in the anti-WWE bubble, even tweeting out his desire to be one of a few to become a legendary figure without the WWE paint on him.

Yeah I'm calling this a well calculated publicity shill personally, he's going nowhere. 

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I also completely forgot that interview where Kenny said that he felt that "being a cog in the WWE machine" would be the worst thing ever.

We know from Sting's saga with New Haven that if there is one thing that WWE execs are really good at, it's holding a grudge and unless someone like AJ or Nak pleads Omega's case, I really don't see anyone making the effort to sign Kenny.  I think he's burned the NXT bridge without even setting foot on it.

The idea of AJ or Gallows / Anderson vouching for Kenny also seems thin giving the rather blistering promos that Kenny cut after they left.  Even if it was tough talk to save face and reassure the NJPW fans, I'd still be a tad pissed about what Kenny said if were AJ or one of the old BC guys.

As I see it, Kenny's options are to 1) sit at home and collect paychecks until Okada / Suzuki blows off or 2) hook up with the Young Bucks when they are out on tour and work ROH and some other indies until Okada / Suzuki blows off.

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On the most recent radio show, Meltz had a long rant about how Omega has all the qualities necessary to be THE guy in WWE. I think his promo style would not fit WWE land without major tinkering but otherwise he may have a point. However, I'm thinking (and hoping) that this is Omega resting up and keeping his name out there simultaneously. 

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While it would be nice to see another hometown boy on the television every week in WWE, I would miss being able to go see Omega once a year work a show at a dumpy bar here in Winnipeg. So mark me down as conflicted about this news. :)

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33 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

On the most recent radio show, Meltz had a long rant about how Omega has all the qualities necessary to be THE guy in WWE. I think his promo style would not fit WWE land without major tinkering but otherwise he may have a point.

That's the thing.  Kenny is in his athletic prime and he has a certain kind of charisma, but his real talent is knowing how to work for the crowd instead of just working the crowd.

Analysts here in the states love to make fun of him for his "goofy" behavior and for stuff like working that match with the little girl, but they never seem to understand that HE DOES THE THINGS THAT JAPANESE FANS WANT TO SEE.

He knows when to be comedic, he knows when to be violent. he is always aware of what fans expect of him from one moment to the next and that comes with understanding the culture of the people you're performing for.  Kenny has learned this over time and that is why he's never been more over than he's been right now.

I think that Kenny could adapt well to North American audiences if he wanted to, but does he really want to?  Why start over trying to decipher what fickle North American fans might want to see when he's cracked the code in Japan?

Does he need to be signed by the WWE in order be considered a success or is it the WWE that needs to get Kenny on the roster and prove that it is still the ultimate destination of any worker worth his salt?

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Yeah, what has really impressed me most about him the past year is how quickly he adapted to being more serious as a top guy when necessary.  He has looked 100% credible in big matches against Okada/Naito/Tanahashi.  So it's clear that, much like his buddies the Bucks, he does the goofy shit because he understands that's what works for a certain audience that puts a lot of money in his pocket.

And I understand if that's not your thing, but at this point, I don't think it's fair or reasonable to write him off as a guy who just does the goofy stuff.

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Agreed. I think he'd be great in WWE but going off all of the interviews I've read/watched, it just doesn't sound like he's that interested and instead has a chip on his shoulder. I wouldn't hold it against him for signing with WWE but I think it would be neat, at a time when they're swallowing up so much talent, that he didn't go and had a great run elsewhere.

I wasn't shocked in the least when he was elevated last January and thought he was more than able of filling AJ's shoes, something only a handful of guys are capable of doing. His over-the-top antics are still there in some ways, like his selling at times, but they're subtler and generally not in his matches but his promos (like singing when he won the IC title in that great match with Tanahashi). The set-up for him to be a top face is really easy too. Cody or whomever gets jelly of his success (or if he doesn't win the big one in the next half year or so, rips him for his failures) and he's kicked out of the club, allowing him to speak fluent Japanese again. You know that first Japanese promo is going to get a huge pop.

Awe, I just noticed we are birthday twins! Special boys! Special boys!

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Oh! That spot in the 1/5 Bullet Club vs. Team 2000 tag where Norton just picks up Cheeseburger like he's a rag doll and then hucks him outside at BC, only for the BC to catch him and huck him back in is such a great damn spot.

There we go!

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Anyone comparing Okada and Omega to a Kevin Owens match is out of their mind. Owens has been sloppy and downright terrible all year long. He's failed to tell even the simplest of story and every match has been a carbon copy of his Cena feud... just not nearly as good as the first Cena match. 

Okada and Omega on the other hand told a very well constructed story and both men were crisp as fuck..  especially Omega. I guess there will always be folks on twitter and elsewhere who will have this weird anti-New Japan bias (because of Dave I guess?) but great wrestling is great wrestling. 

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32 minutes ago, Salads said:

English commentary at the end of the NEVER match: 'Goto wins the big one!'

Bridesmaid no more.

Goto proceeds to eat a pin from Juice Robinson 24 hours later.

 

Nevermind.

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Finally watched the big four, along with the Junior tag and ROH title bouts.  My only real thought on the latter two is surprise at the relative paucity of 2.9~dom and how quick the finishes the came given the stakes, but that would obviously seem to owe to their position on a stupidly stacked card.

KUSHIDA/Hiromu was great, even with what seemed like two pretty badly blown spots back to back in the heart of the match.  KUSHIDA may be the best worker on the planet pound-for-pound (cue impassioned arguments on behalf of various lucha minis).

The NEVER title bout may have been the best Goto match I've ever seen, though I'm admittedly already pretty foggy on last year's G1 finale.

Naito/Tanahashi was simple, excellent storytelling from two of the maybe three best in the world at it right now.  Wonderful stuff.

The main certainly deserves its props, and I fully understand why it is an Important(TM) addition to the modern Big Match(C) canon.  But I don't know if I found it demonstrably better than Omega/Naito from the block B finale last year (which, again, I do cop to being foggy on), and personally I don't think it tops Ishii/Okada from block A in terms of being as close to perfect of a match you can put on at present.

But I feel any criticism I could offer would simply be a product of it being SO hyped, and it remains so, SO good on its own merits.  The whole end run was absolutely molten, and exactly what you'd want to see from both guys coming off their respective 2016s.

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Someone asked a non Omega/Okada fan their thoughts early in the thread, and I'm that guy. While I thought the match was REALLY good, and I really can't wrap my head around the idea of this match being "the best ever". It wasn't even the best match on the show I thought(preferred both the Kushida match and Tana/Naito).  Will admit that part of it is because I had already heard an insane amount of hyperbole before I watched it, so that dampened my thoughts SOME, but I also just don't like Omega's work, and it has nothing to do with his goofy shit from before. I just think he and Okada both are extremely poor at making moves mean anything beyond their finish. Their was a hanging DDT on the floor in the first 10 minutes that literally meant nothing 5 minutes later. Huge ass move after huge ass move with no time to breathe. A fucking top rope dragon suplex is a finish, so fuck outta here with that.  The whole thing felt hollow to me.  If I were invested in NJPW, Omega or Okada, maybe I'd feel different, but at first glance, it's like the 20th best match I saw in the last 12 months.

This may come off as asshole-ish, but to me, it's literally impossible for the current big match style of pro wrestling to deliver the "greatest match ever", simply because the craft of making everything matter is lost.

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You couldn't pay me to watch Omega vs Okada right now but I traded a watch of Shibata vs Goto (Well outside my wheelhouse) for them to write up Trevor Lee vs John Skyler (out of theirs, and another match where the commentary helps drive the narrative with the great "wrestling defensively" talking point), so here's my thoughts on that match at least.

 

I'm not entirely sure how to tackle this. Let me try with two background comments and then to go from there.

 

Background comments:

1.) I have never seen Goto before and I've only seen one Shibata match, the tag vs Taue from far, far earlier in his career. I can connect those dots to some degree as both performances centered around a sense of attitude and full dedication to, if not a character, than an ideal. I do appreciate that.

2.) My understanding and enjoyment of this match was heavily colored by the commentary. I'm not 100% sure it's accurate. I'm not sure if the company gave them talking points or not. I'm not entirely sure that the crowd reactions they were describing at times were accurate. It didn't feel that way. I never got a sense that the crowd was disappointed in Goto. I also don't know if I'd consider the commentary objectively "good." It was, however, effective, in that I bought into the story they were telling and overlaid it over I was seeing. I may have understood this match very differently and engaged with it far less without the commentary.

 

Ultimately, I liked the first third and I liked the last third, and I was into the finish. I didn't know how this ended and the announcers built it up well enough (likely too well) and Shibata proved himself to be such a force in the match that I didn't think Goto was going to be able to pull it off. That's a testament to the total package, that I was engaged in the finish and popped at least a little for Goto overcoming what was presented to me as "the odds." 

 

With how the match was presented, I was absolutely okay with the early arm work being blown off. Here's why. As presented, everything in the first third, or so, until they started doing the corner run assaults back and forth, was Shibata bullying Goto, being disappointed in him, trying to wake him up and make him really fight, to awaken his inner spirit. As such, once it was obvious from the opening moments that this was not happening, Shibata went to the arm not to control him or break him down, but to show him what this match would be like if he didn't wake up. It was a form of bullying, of trying to push him. It was Shibata saying "If you're not going to really fight me, I'm not going to fight you. I'm just going to twist at this body part and break it down and there's nothing you can do about it." It was the pro wrestling equivalent of stuffing him in a locker basically and it made total sense to me that once Goto really started to fight, Shibata wouldn't go back to it. He didn't WANT to go back to it. He never wanted to go to it in the first place. He wanted the fight and by pushing him with the arm work, he got it.

 

I was ALSO okay with that corner back and forth with delayed selling. When it occurred, not enough damage had been done that I couldn't believe they wouldn't fight through it. The point of the match, at that point of the match, was that they were TRYING to fight through it. If they spent the next ten minutes acting that way I would have had problems with it but it led to a moment of selling. With that exchange, I was ok.

 

I was also okay with Shibata popping up. This is what he wanted, at least according to the commentary. This is what he reveled in. When it came to strikes, I could buy it to a degree. He was goading Goto. He was pushing Goto, and once he pushed him there, he had to show that it was his own turf, where he belonged. It wasn't quite "Cactus Jack loves pain!" but it was why he got out of bed this morning, and in that regard, it made sense for him to pop up and prove his toughness. With that bit, I was ok,

 

With the subsequent no selling of suplexes, I wasn't. That's where the match lost me. I was able to suspend my sense of disbelief, was able to go along for a ride that I don't usually enjoy going on due to the back story the announcers fed me, the fact I haven't seen this particular match six other times so it was novel, and the sense of commitment from both guys, but it all fell apart when the escalated things but still did the delayed, two-moves later, selling. I don't think it was necessary to tell the story they were trying to tell. I think they could have accomplished all the more by playing up the wear and tear on their bodies and having each move mean more at this point. 

 

And then, they more or less did just that, going into the forearm exchanges (which for once worked for the reasons I mentioned before), and the story that Shibata, MAYBE, shouldn't have woken a dragon when he was so banged up and when that dragon had whiplash inducing offense as his trademark/specialty. Every one of Goto's goofy flip moves was exactly the bane to Shibata's taped up neck and shoulders. And after every one, Shibata would try to fight his way back in it to the point where I thought he'd be just too much for Goto but Goto hung on and it was a nice little moment when he won it.

 

I'm fairly glad I saw this. I don't think it was five stars. I think watching Shibata would get old quickly. This style walks a definite tightrope of appropriateness and the line between grisly and awesome and believable and the whole thing just falling apart is very, very thin. Good on them for getting it back after it did, but the fact that it did in the first place was a problem to me. From a personal standpoint, I'm also not entirely comfortable having relied upon commentary so much for something I might not have seen or believed on my own.

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