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That one security guy who was with the female host in the server room, what a total dumbass. I must have shouted “just shoot her” for like 5 mins straight while she done that monologue.  That guy straight up deserved what he got.

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I fell into it all last week. Binged everything and avoided this thread until now. I'll admit that I did not see the Bernard as a host coming, nor even William as the MiB. Powerful Thandie Newton though! I know she's always acted and remained busy, but I remember first seeing her years ago in Gridlock'd with 2Pac and Tim Roth. She grabbed me the most when the first season started so I guess I still find her story most worth following/investing in. 

The soundtrack in this thing. I love the different versions of "Paint it Black," and that C.R.E.A.M. version is awesome.  

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Good episode. Hope Ford gets some comeuppance in the finale, him being right about everything and his whole “ah I knew this would happen even though there was a twist and a turn to get there I still had it all planned out” shtick has worn thin on me.

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Ed Harris has just gone, by making the game as immersive as possible its led to him questioning whether even he is a host never mind his daughter and the rescue squad. What is his motivation for wanting to destroy everything he's helped create though? I think I missed it.

It’s crazy how much of a drastic improvement season 2 has been over the confusing and meandering first season. Have loved the last two episodes character study theme which have both managed to provide a satisfying story while still furthering the arc of the season. More of that please!

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4 hours ago, CreativeControl said:

Ed Harris has just gone, by making the game as immersive as possible its led to him questioning whether even he is a host never mind his daughter and the rescue squad. What is his motivation for wanting to destroy everything he's helped create though? I think I missed it.

I think it finally came down to realizing that people, mainly the rich and wealthy, shouldn't be allowed to be immortal so he's going to BURN IT DOWN before the controlling interest of Delos can see any of that through.

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On 6/18/2018 at 8:15 AM, Technico Support said:

Really good episode.  Hilarious that it aired on Father's Day.

Also, once I tell you that Elsie looks like Big Head from Silicon Valley, you'll never unsee it.

I had to pause an episode to look them both up on IMDb to see if they’re related. 

They’re not, by the way. 

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I liked the finale, but man, I'm really confused. I tend to like confusing things. I enjoy and watched Primer more times than I'd like to admit. I don't really want to have to rewatch this season of Westworld countless numbers of times or look at a super detailed infographic to understand the timeline.

Actually, no, I would gladly accept a super detailed infographic to explain what the hell the timeline last season was. 

Anyway, I'm still not even sure...

Spoiler

William is a host. For all I know, he might still be playing Ford's game and Ford is still fucking with him. Or maybe he is a host and humans are all dead. If that really was the remains of the Forge, the rust and decay would seem to indicate that it's been at least 10 years and probably more since the Forge was flooded.

Well wait. FUCK. They pumped the water out to get to the Forge, didn't they? Yeah, they did, and everything was super operational then...Hell, somehow the water didn't even wash away the blood from Delores.

Dammit, I don't even know what the hell to think now. Was there really a need to make this season that convoluted with the timelines? Now that it's over, I don't think they needed to. Season 1 was done perfectly with the play between the past and the present. This season took that and turned the volume up to 11 and at times it made me wonder if there was an element of time travel.

Hopefully someone puts together some sort of graphic to help explain this shit.

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Ya..... so they basically just threw a load of things together to keep fans guessing for the whole season and the end result was that. I’m so fucking confused. 

They missed the boat big time on wasting the Jim Delos/William/Logan storyline. 

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I liked the finale ok enough.

Spoiler

I think William at the end is more a years later deal with his host basically being caught up in the same deal Delos's host was in. The big difference likely being that the daughter who was testing him was a host herself.

 

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I also thought they missed the boat with Jim Delos and Logan. That stuff was super interesting and heart breaking. I get why the actor who plays Logan wouldn't have had as much time for filming this season since he has a large part in another tv series, but the season really missed him.

All in all, I liked this season a lot, but how intentionally confusing the showrunners made the season hurt it in the end especially because there was so much other shit they delivered and the ultimate payoff was...wacky twists and turns with Delores, Hale, Bernard, etc. I still don't think the timeline is correct either. If you were to go back and try to plot everything out on a white board or something, I think they fucked up a couple times. There's just some moments that don't fall into place correctly. Like some of the stuff I mentioned in my spoiler box.

Regard the post-credits scene...

Spoiler

Here's what gets me...So we're to believe that William gets fucked up in the same way each time and goes back to the same place each time to test fidelity? With Jim being stuck in the room it makes sense that this would be the 1,000th time he was tested. For William though? What, he's just going on the same adventure over and over again so his host daughter can make a faithful recreation of William? It's either that, or this was the hell she threatened her dad with a few episodes earlier. My wife and I joked that she would wind up locking William up in a nursing home, but is the worse fate she threatened William with was immortality and being stuck in the same loop? That just makes no sense considering all William would have to go through each time and William's host daughter is testing for fidelity.

I think that's why it's easier for me to buy that it's still the real William, but Ford has effectively wrecked William's mind and now William doesn't know what's real anymore. That's at least plausible. Everything else? I mean, what purpose does it all serve? Also, they're past the point of recreating humans as hosts so testing for fidelity is pointless. Delores and Ford nailed it with Bernard/Arnold, Delores has all the knowledge she needs, it's many years later and they can't make a correct clone of William? 

 

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I think it's the real William.  But there's definitely a William host at play here, because we see William at the extraction site at the end of the episode when Delores-Charlotte is leaving.  I don't *think* he could be at both places, but with the way this season played with time, who knows.

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I rewatched the finale and read ( a lot ) about it and a lot of things make sense now, not everything but way more than on first viewing.

The thing that’s stuck with me is the post-credits scene. If it’s host William being tested then where does present William go to when he enters the elevators after being injured by his own gun? Because it’s definitely 2 different timelines in my opinion, the fact that the elevator is used is just a neat little trick.

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The theory I read is that the real William never went down the elevator. He stayed on the ground and Delos recovered him and took him to the extraction site.  You're seeing a distant future timeline from the moment William gets up and heads for the elevator.

I dunno.  I'm sure someone will have it broken down frame by frame, one way or the other, by the end of the day.

But to me, that's just less impactful.  It has to be the real William getting trapped in a Ford mindfuck while Ford sends a William host (probably with Ford inside) out into the world to do what he may.

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19 hours ago, Craig H said:

Season 1 was done perfectly with the play between the past and the present. This season took that and turned the volume up to 11 and at times it made me wonder if there was an element of time travel.

Gotta disagree with this. As intentionally confusing as it was this season it helped reinforce the unreliable narrator theme and I found it a hell of a lot more obvious that we were switching around timelines. I didn't get it at all with S1 until that last episode reveal of William/MIB.

This entire episode reminded me of one of my favourite Robot Chicken skits:

I really don't have an opinion of the episode. It was cram-central, a bit of a mess and honestly felt like a series finale rather than a season finale. Where do they go from here? Also, add me to the list of people who think that post-credit scene was a bit of a red herring rather than 'this is what the MIB did after you last saw him'. Also, was all the visitor data deleted by Delores in the Forge or did Bernard manage to stop it?

I think the fact I don't have the time or impetus to read episode recaps, identify callbacks, get involved in fan theories or obsessively look at easter eggs and breadcrumb clues really hinders my enjoyment of the show. As a semi-casual viewer I'm left non-plussed more times than not but I love the theme of the show so continue to watch.

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I also cannot find a timeline where all of the dead host bodies being flooded in the valley make sense. I don't mind mystery and intrigue in a series, but I think this show is just trying to openly frustrate its audience, and that comes off as unsatisfying to me, especially given the talent used to make up this series.

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So this show is going to end up like "Lost" isnt it?

Enough people will watch to keep it alive for a few more season and they'll talk about how deep it is and blah blah blah and the writing team is just gonna fling all the shit at the wall and let them decide what it means.

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33 minutes ago, peterien said:

I might be stupid or missing something very obvious but why was the system designed to be Logan? What was the reasoning for that?

I thought it was because it was Jim Delos' company and since they were trying to clone him, Logan wound up being the subject in the simulation used to analyze Jim. Every time they looked into seeing if Jim would make a different choice when it came to that fateful interaction with Logan, he always chose to reject Logan. I think from there Logan just wound up being the UI in the system.

Or not. Who the fuck knows.

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1 hour ago, L_W_P said:

So this show is going to end up like "Lost" isnt it?

Enough people will watch to keep it alive for a few more season and they'll talk about how deep it is and blah blah blah and the writing team is just gonna fling all the shit at the wall and let them decide what it means.

I got a lot more joy out of Lost because I was partaking in the kool aid. 

And for anyone wondering why I subject myself to something I clearly don't like, I'll admit that I do enjoy reading the discussions about the show enough to drudge on. Also, the Ghost Nation episode was good shit. 

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Over the last week I’ve rewatched different parts of the series and the finale itself again and it’s definitely opened my eyes to a few bits. I definitely enjoyed the finale more. I’m still not 100% sure that Logan is dead, I hope we get to see more of him and not as ‘the system’. 

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